F25 and PHRF

F25 and PHRF

Postby Jack Woods » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:38 pm

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone has experiences they'd like to share about racing PHRF.
I'm not very good at racing but I'm going out this year anyway.
My last boat was a Tartan 41 (S&S) and though it could out point most the short
WL courses were not very enjoyable....

Thanks,

Jack
1983 F25 round mast #184 Badaka
Yanmar diesel
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Re: F25 and PHRF

Postby Teke's Pride » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:55 pm

F25s and F21s are fun boats to race. Unlike your Tartan, most every other boat on the course will be able to out point you. Theses boats were basically cat rigged boats with a jib/staysail as an after thought. The jib/staysail does improve pointing but the main is so far forward the true sloops will out perform you to windward every time. Where you will come into your own is on the down wind legs. If you can keep up with the pack you should be able to catch them on the runs with your spinnaker up.

You will be at a disadvantage on a windward-leeward course but you will race even or have a slight advantage on a triangle course as our downwind speed is so much better than most other boats. You will have one slight advantage on a straight windward-leeward course -- Sloops with a asymmetric spinnaker will jibe down the course in order to make full use of their sail area. Since our spinnakers are partially masked by the mainsail on most points of sail we can sail closer to straight downwind without noticeable loss of sail area or speed.

I don't usually bother racing if the forecast is for winds under 10 mph (8 knots). The sweet spot for us is 12-20 mph (10-15 knots). Above 20 mph you should consider a reef. By the way, I don't know about the F25 but I'll never single hand a F21 in a race again if the winds are above 18 mph with the jib up.

Enjoy!
Last edited by Teke's Pride on Sun May 06, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clark Myers
Teke's Pride
F21 #345

Browns Creek Sailing Association
Lake Guntersville, AL
http://www.youtube.com/LambdaZetaTeke
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Re: F25 and PHRF

Postby unfetteredalexandria » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:24 pm

What wind range, if any, do you find the staysail to be necessary for staying competitive upwind? I would think it is mostly at the lower end, e.g. below 12 kts.
1984 round-mast Freedom 25
Western Shore of the Chesapeake
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Re: F25 and PHRF

Postby Teke's Pride » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:51 pm

Unless you like loosing don't even start a race with less than 6 knots of wind.

With the F21 is is recommended to drop the staysail when the wind reaches 12 knots. Some F21 owners have had a "blade" staysail of about 1/2 the area of the "class" staysail made so they can use a staysail in higher winds for the pointing benefit.

In the 2011 Great River Race (held every October on Lake Guntersville in Alabama) the winds were over 18 mph all day with gusts of 24 to 30 mph (I don't know the knot conversion). I had my class staysail up but took it down prior to the start. An hour and a half into the race I hoisted it again and put a reef in the main because I could not point. I was foolishly racing my F21 solo and I was at 9/10s of my ability. I broached on an early spinnaker run and lost my spinnaker retrieval line (the stopper knot pulled right through the padeye; I now thread the line through the padeye and tie a bowline to the eye). I lost a good 40 minutes on the fleet while I recovered my chute and re-rigged it. I ended up about an hour behind the next fastest boat in my class (Short Course Spinnaker Class). I was totally exhausted after 5 1/2 and placing 3rd. It took me over an hour longer to win the race 2 years ago.

My wish list for the coming year is:

1) paint the bottom
2) new fat head mainsail
3) buy a "blade" or screacher staysail/jib for high wind racing
Last edited by Teke's Pride on Sun May 06, 2012 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clark Myers
Teke's Pride
F21 #345

Browns Creek Sailing Association
Lake Guntersville, AL
http://www.youtube.com/LambdaZetaTeke
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Re: F25 and PHRF

Postby moosemcclintock » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi Clark,

Regarding a fat head main, I sold one that the new owner is re-selling, not sure why but you could ask him

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedom21/message/2808

It's a good price.

As for racing the F21 in light air, I actually won a light air double windward leeward race last year in an 8 boat fleet

Rank Fleet Boat Class SailNo Club HelmName PHRF Finish Elapsed Corrected Points
1 Non-Spin SM Two Dogs Freedom 21 2792 Sail Newport David McClintock 261 203527 1:20:27 1:07:50 1.0
2 Non-Spin SM And She Was Lippibcott 30 41615 Barrington Jonathon Banks 208 203447 1:19:47 1:09:44 2.0
3 Non-Spin SM Avalon Cal 25 1232 Barrington Bob Wart 249 203729 1:22:29 1:10:27 3.0
4 Non-Spin SM Adelina Ensign 997 Bristol Jim Spiro 278 204033 1:25:33 1:12:07 4.0
5 Non-Spin SM Black Eyed Susan Cape Dory 25 194 Barrington Chris Abadi/ Phil Stockwell 291 204117 1:26:17 1:12:13 5.0
6 Non-Spin SM Serenity C& C 29 22234 Barrington Ben Block 216 203845 1:23:45 1:13:19 6.0
7 Non-Spin SM Bonny Doon C&C 24 23666 Bristol Roger Carney 261 204122 1:26:22 1:13:45 7.0

I found that the boat actually sailed much better in really light air (under 5 knots fo the whole race) because I could sheet in but not bend the mast as I do when it's windier, this gave me more power through the mid-leech and I was able to nearly point with the boats with headsails. Biggest advantage was downwind in light air, though I wanted to sail in a spinnaker class I was too small so I was put in non-spin. I was pretty far behind at the weather mark from overstanding in a big wind shift but the fat head main was so much more efficient compared to the other boats trying to go either wind and wing or reaching that I passed all but two boats by the leeward mark, passed a C&C 29 on the beat and almost caught the Lippincott 30 near the finish, we were nearly overlapped a quarter mile from the finish but he got a puff I didn't get and he beat me by about 10 lengths. That said, I would have liked to have a headsail in that condition, the boat needs it. I gave away my F21 and bought an F25, I have a couple ideas for a headsail using the gunmount as a jib boom but have to get it on the water and figure out the sailing characteristics before I go to far on anything.
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