Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

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Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby Teke's Pride » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:48 pm

As an occasional racer, I find PHRF a good tool for evaluating the potential performance of a boat before making a decision to buy. With that in mind, I'm currently saving up to by my next Freedom. I'm looking for either a Freedom 35 cat ketch (not the British version of the 33) or a Freedom 40 ck aft cockpit. Any idea where I can find ratings for these two boats? The latest versions of the PHRF ratings tables available on line don't list all the Freedoms.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby cberdie » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:39 pm

I was told the ratings were different for each boat. the one time I raced, the fellow that assigned my handicap went through an hour of protest over what he gave me. I'm sorry I don't remember the number. The ratings are biased towards windward work, not the Freedom's best point of sail. It's an aft cockpit 40, for sale, by the way.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby Teke's Pride » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:33 am

Thanks Carl,

What I've been told is that if at least one boat of the class hasn't been raced for a number of years, the class is dropped from the Ratings. I'm kind of hoping someone out there has an old printed copy of the ratings from the 1980s or 90s with ALL the Freedoms listed.

As for my next boat, I'm still 5-8 years away from having the funds. I just got out of bankruptcy in 2016 and I'm having to rebuild all my savings. I've only been able to put aside $5k so far and I'm going to need $45k-75k more according to Yatchworld.com. I'll need to have full purchase price with my recent credit history and, considering the age of the Freedoms, I wouldn't expect a bank to finance the purchase anyway. I see this boat as being my retirement home.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby bad » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:14 am

You may have done this already, but if you Google "Freedom 40 PHRF" you will get a bunch of hits including one for NCPHRF which has us at 168. Other regions have other numbers - there was I believe a 171 on the East Coast. For comparison, we rate the same as a J24 or a Capri 25 does in our region. We are not likely to beat them to weater in light winds, nor running in heavy winds when they can plane. But PHRF can only do a limited job of rating very different boats using a single number. One or the other boat will exceed it's rating given the right condition.

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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby Teke's Pride » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:22 am

Thanks Eric, you are right, I have do e the Google search and did find the Freedom 40. What I can't find is the PHRF for the Freedom 35 CK.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby bad » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:34 pm

PHRF is suppose to be an empirical rating system but similar boats should rate similarly. You could start with waterline, displacement, and sail area and see what other boats are close. Use also the standard SA/D, Disp-Length, and ballast ratio to compare boats. Non-spinnaker adjustments can be 6 to 12 sec. a mile, but because the wishbone rig is efficient reaching and running, some areas don't give that credit. Understood that within that "framework of numbers" some boats sail really well (bad) compared to others. Bob Perry (yacht designer) has commented on a Freedom 35 design but I'm not sure what model. There was a thread on Sailing Anarchy where he was not complimentary.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby Hans » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:37 am

I have a comprehensive 2014 PHRF list on my computer ( Couldn't find the link which I used to download it last year).
So instead of sending you the link I made a pdf copy of page 57/58 in which the Freedom's are listed. Hope the one you are looking for is on the list.
Attachments
2014 PHRF Handicaps Data Freedoms.pdf
PHRF Freedom 2014
(126.36 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby katorpus » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:44 am

Ah yes...you gotta love those folks in California. Nothing like a little inconsistency.
Freedom 40 (wrap around sails) is 102 in So Cal and 168 in Northern California
The 40 would have to give up 36 seconds to the 44 in Southern California, while getting 27 seconds in Northern California against the same boat.
So much for objective observations of regional handicappers.
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Re: Where do we find PHRF ratings for older boats?

Postby Hans » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:07 am

As I understand the PHRF ratings: they represent actual numbers experienced from club racing. Which means that the differences in the ratings represent the
knowledge and experience of the individual skippers
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