Topic 1000

[bobr]

1.
4. Would love to have cabin sole refinished but budget may not again allow it. Don't have garage or basement (live in condo) so DYI not in the cards.

Hi Ed,

Did you previously refinish the cabin sole? I'm looking into recommended approach as they're pretty beat up and need it. I thi8nk You had posted a few years back with a recommended varnish finish for the wood and would love to hear how it worked.

I'm in the middle of this project now. I'm happy to share my experiences, for what they are worth (I don't consider myself much of a woodworker or varnishing guru).

First question, where to do it? I'm lucky, unlike my previous boat where the floor was glued in place, all of my floorboards unscrewed easily. I have both a garage for sanding and a basement for stripping and painting. The experts say don't paint where you sand, makes sense.

Next, how to strip? Everything I read (including an informative blog post from Dakota Marine Services that Google will find for you) discouraged trying to sand old varnish off of veneered boards. Too much risk of sanding right through. Most experts recommend using a heat gun and scraper. I did not go that route, as I don't trust myself with most power tools, was afraid of damaging the veneer or melting the glue, and didn't want to breath the fumes.

That left chemical methods. I used a "non-toxic" product called Citristip. No strong smell, just faintly citrus not even noticed by the family upstairs in the living area.The old varnish came up easily after an hour or so after application with a plastic putty knife. The residue makes a pretty good mess. The label says you can leave it on for up to 24 hours without drying out but in my experience even 2 hours is too long. When it dries out it turns white and chalky. Probably not a problem with hardwoods, but the teak is quite soft and grainy so it left behind some residue. An internet search turned up a furniture re-finisher who had the same problem. She recommended denatured alcohol to remove it and it worked quite well. You may need to use a scotch brite pad or bronze wool to get in the grain.

Hand sanding to smooth finish, 80 grit, 150 grit, 220 grit. They say to make it feel like glass. I'd like to think I got close.

Repairs to the wood? I had numerous small dings and a few the size of a pea. My research said to fill them with clear epoxy. This did not turn out so well. I ended up with more epoxy than needed in each hole and sanding it level eats up a lot of the surrounding wood. Unless you have some substantial dings I would skip this step, or try something like plastic wood if you can match the color. You are going to get more dings anyway, they add character I'm told.

Next, what product to use? I ruled out traditional varnish right away. My application skills are poor, and having a dog aboard I wanted something hard and durable. On my last boat I used a 2 part polyurethane from Bristol Finish they call Traditional Amber. I like it very much, but the fumes almost killed me even with a respirator. So this time I used their water based urethane called Classic Clear. They say it can be used on gym floors so I figured it should hold up pretty well to my dog's nails. They also claim it is not slippery underfoot which is a huge plus. Finally, it has no smell. It looks like skim milk coming out of the container.

They claim it dries in an hour at 70 degrees and you can re-coat without sanding if you do so within 4 hours. Drying time in my basement is at least 90 minutes. I am sanding between most coats because I usually end up with a few small bubbles on each board. So far I have 4 coats on some of the boards and I'm very happy with it. I'm shooting for 6 coats. If anyone wants to see pictures let me know, I'll try to post some before and afters if I can figure that out. Edit--had a request for pics, see below. Will add more in next post. Pics in boat are before, others are after 6 coats. Planning on one more very thin finish coat after a final sanding to smooth out some high spots. May thin it with water. Using a foam brush and now able to avoid sanding between coats except for last coat.

This approach may work for you. It is low tech for sure, but you really can't screw it up too bad. And if you do worst case is you take it to a pro where you will pay 20 times the cost of your materials for a pro job. I figure I will have about 50 hours into it by the time I'm done.

Hope this helps!

[bobr]

More pics after 6 coats, one more to go. In no way is it professional quality, and water based product is known to be less stunning than traditional methods. But good enough for my purposes, clean if nothing else!

[gamayun]

That write-up and the pictures are of the sole refinishing were super nice, Bob. Thanks! I need to redo some of the sole boards around my leaky mast. Your write-up has not been immortalized in my To Do file

This thread has motivated me to list some projects that I will be doing in the next few months include:

[*] Building H frame on stern to mount solar, radar dome, SSB antenna, etc.
[*] Mounting the Monitor self-steering vane
[*] Installing new wind and speed instruments, tricolor mast light, and new antenna wire
[*] Doing a haul out to repaint, replace shaft seal and bearing, fair keel, check rudder bearing
[*] Upgrading alternator
[*] Adding winches to cockpit coaming for spinnaker and to handle the main sheet from the helm (how to others do this...?!)
[*] Install new AP controller for the wheel pilot and an AP for the windvane
[*] Install backup main halyard

There is a lot of little stuff, too, but these are the biggies with respect to time and money. I'd love to hear how others have tackled some of these things.

Over the last year, I completely redid the nav station, adding dedicated DC and AC panels, battery monitor, AGMs, more 110 outlets with GFI, some USB outlets, and a charging shelf for the handheld radios. That was a BIG PROJECT, but well worth it. Also installed a new fixed mount VHF with AIS and the Strong Tides Track (LOVE IT - I can jump the whole mainsail at the mast except for the last few inches); still slowly replacing the lifelines with Spectra: replaced the gooseneck (it had broken right after a sail - could have been very bad indeed, but it occurred just inside the harbor); added a downhaul back to the cockpit to better trim the new loose-footed main; and installed new water heater, countertops, sinks and faucets in the galley and head (one leaky water heater and faucet just lead to a whole bigger project...). Happy to send pictures, if interested.

Carliane
s/v Kynntana

[gamayun]

Oh, I also see lots of headliner projects that others are going to be doing. Mine is coming down, too. Feedback on what you did, what material you used, and the 'ease' of the project, would also be great to hear back on!

I also need to rebed portlights. First one that I pulled off seemed to have a much larger gap than the window itself. I used butyl, but it's still leaking probably because I didn't use enough to completely fill in all the spaces - I didn't see any oozing at the edges. I think I should have had a little oozing. Any thoughts?

[bobr]

Thanks, Carliane.

My next big project will be the headliner. I have read everything about it on here multiple times and also scoured the internet to see what others have done.

I have pretty much made up my mind to go with a hard surface vinyl beadboard paneling like you can get at the big box stores. It looks pretty neat, and the lapstrake style design breaks up what would otherwise be a large expanse of plain white surface. I don't think I have the skill to work with fabric, and I like the idea of being able to unscrew the panels to get at the overhead, and the fact that it will never have to be done again if it is screwed in and not glued to foam backing.

Your list, both past and future, is impressive. Lots of big jobs!

[bbarnewolt]

Oh, I also see lots of headliner projects that others are going to be doing. Mine is coming down, too. Feedback on what you did, what material you used, and the 'ease' of the project, would also be great to hear back on!

I also need to rebed portlights. First one that I pulled off seemed to have a much larger gap than the window itself. I used butyl, but it's still leaking probably because I didn't use enough to completely fill in all the spaces - I didn't see any oozing at the edges. I think I should have had a little oozing. Any thoughts?

I replaced my opening ports with NFM ports a couple of years ago and used Butyl for sealing. I definitely had squeeze out of the butyl that needed trimming from the exterior of the ports. There is a fine line between not enough butyl (no squeeze out) and too much (difficult to compress things together). For me, using two layers of butyl tape was about the right amount, but in some areas I needed more to fill the gap.

Last year I rebedded 3 of 4 fixed ports using Butyl. I found in all cases the opening cut in the fiberglass house was significantly larger than it should have been, with several areas having just 1 mm fiberglass house between the edge of the flange and the opening of the hole. In other words, had the opening been 1mm larger, the outer flange of the port would have simply fallen into the cabin. Previous owners or yards had filled the space between the edge of the hole and the outer port flange with combinations of silicone (tons of it) and 5200 (not as bad as it sounds).

In the case of the NFM opening ports, I had to perform some significant surgery as they do not make a drop in replacement for the F38 ports. For the fixed ports I narrowed the opening in the cabin top using small strips of G10 epoxied to the edges of the opening in strategic locations effectively making the opening smaller. This gave a much better "ledge" for the sealant and the outer flange of the port and I have not had leaks since.

[gamayun]

Thanks, Brian! I definitely used too much butyl at first, pulled it all off, ran a small bead on the outside piece, then stuck it back in piece by piece to fill in the gap from the inside. Like all projects, I thought it was going to be pretty easy....now that I'm reading a bit more about the process, I'll pull the window off again and see about doing it better, including better cleaning of the old silicone. I would hate to have to epoxy G10 into the spaces, but I'll look at the hole opening again and see whether I should bite the bullet and do that, too. That is a great idea. Also, those NFM ports are nice but mine are still in good shape, and with so many other projects, I just can't see replacing them.

[Tricia]

Every time I have rebedded a port light I have done some epoxy work to make the cut-outs in the cabin sides fit better. I also seal any exposed wood with epoxy. Last time I used West System 6-10, which, while expensive, is so much tidier than mixing and thickening in a cup. I mask the cut-out on both sides, then stick scrap wood battens on either side with double-sided tape. A dremel with a sanding drum makes quick work of final shaping of the new epoxy.

[gamayun]

Thanks, Tricia! It does make sense to just do it right the first time. You make the fix sound easy, too. I received a Dremel as a gift last year, but haven't found much need for it...yet.

[Tricia]

It's not hard, just requires attention to detail and patience. By now, I'm getting better at it, having done most of the port lights. Just one more of the big windows and I hope to not have to do it ag... oh, I'm not going to say that!