Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Engines, Drive trains, Propellers, Steering, Ground Tackle and other mechanical system
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mike cunningham
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by mike cunningham »

Just returned from my summer cruise from the SF Bay down the coast to Monterey. I had planned to continue on to Moro Bay but got cold feet at Monterey and stayed there for several days gong out day sailing every day. It was absolutely beautiful sailing down there as usual. One day it was blowing 20-25 Kts with steep six foot seas so that was exciting. Got real wet and nicely bashed around on a sail south from Moss Landing back to Monterey.

On the return trip to SF I'll usually sail up to Santa Cruz and motor form Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay as a final stop before the gate. The 50 mile bit from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay can be a royal PIA if there is a Northwesterly blowing at any speed. Its a tough and very long windward sail.

So on 11 July I set out on my motor North at about 4:00 AM. About two hours out of Santa Cruz the Yanmar began to loose RPM and sort of sag and surge, regain its footing and start the cycle all over again. This went on for about 15 minutes and she finally bit the dust. OK that's an easy one I thought, I have a fuel supply problem. All the bashing in the NW swell has loosened up gunk in the tank and clogged my primary fuel filter. (I confess, I had not changed the primary for some time. Excuse: I burn very little fuel). The planets were in alignment wind wise because there was a somewhat unusual Southerly blowing, albeit light, and I was able to keep the boat sailing North at about 2 to 4 Kts. I was still a little concerned because I had a long way to go and a relatively inhospitable Coast should I be unable to regain power and should the wind shift West or North West (the norm) I would have that Coast to leeward. So, rather than turn back to Santa Cruz for a very long light wind sail to windward, I decided to sail on downwind toward my objective and increase my offing for sea room should the wind shift.

This is what I love about single handing. I am forced to puzzle things out pretty much on my own and have to live with bad decisions. This makes you very very conservative...or should. However there is a big caveat in this case. I had an iphone with internet and it was in range of a cell tower ... but I am jumping ahead.

So, I decided to act on my initial hunch and replaced the primary filter. Yes Martha, I have spares. Voila! back in business. Bleed the fuel lines and I am motoring at 2500 RPM feeling like a genius. But there was this little sailing Devil on my shoulder whispering in my ear " gee wiz Boss, that filter didn't look too gummed up did it?". Sure enough, about an hour later the engine starts its routine again. Now the "Devil" is down in the engine room sitting on the primary filter housing looking at me saying "ahem, I told you so".

In an act of desperation I replaced the secondary filter but one look at what came out and I know this was a no go.It was clean as a whistle. I bled and started off again with scant hope of success. Sure enough, about 15 minutes later I am back to sailing at 2 Kts as the wind had dropped to 5 or 6 Kts. I am now thinking, great, I get the Half Moon Bay at 3:00AM in fog, no wind and no engine. The "Devil" is staring skyward whistling a catchy tune the name of which I cannot remember.

So I soldier on and ponder my navel for awhile. I then decide to unload the aft cabin remove the deck boards and get at the tank vent hose so I can determine if that is blocked. Bear in mind this is all happening in a 6 foot swell while under sail at 2 Kts. The interior of the boat was not pretty. I got the vent hose off and blew back with no resistance so, drat, that's not it. So now I am back to navel pondering.

As always in situations like this I reach out to the vast trove of experience on the internet. Another planet in alignment.. I have service 5 miles offshore in the middle of nowhere. I Google "Yanmar runs for awhile and then stops". Some guy with a 1GM20 had posted a similar problem on one of the cruiser forums and mentioned he ran for a few hours then stopped. Same troubleshooting steps as me. A responder noted that sometimes the fuel pickup can be blocked or that there can be a leak in the uptake line to the fuel pump which keeps allowing air into the fuel. OK, that's interesting but I have been able to bleed with fuel flow no problem during both filter changes. But, what the hell, I have nothing better to do so let me try bleeding again. Lo and behold, now I can't get fuel flow at the bleed plug.

OK baby, I am on to something here!! The excitement builds, the "Devil" stops whistling. I have only two pieces of pipe between the tank and the fuel pump. one to the primary filter and two from the primary to the pump...no spare hose so this better be a blockage and not an air leak. I remove the hose from the filter to the tank and blow back. Sure enough, I encounter quite a lot of resistance first puff. Second puff things loosen up a little. I re-attach the hose, am now able to get fuel flow during bleed. I recheck everything I have dissasembled/reassmbled over the past six hours this has gone on and make sure everything is copacetic then hit the start button. She is back online and running like a champ.

Lessons

Clean the fuel tank periodically (I have not done mine since install 12 years ago...blush)
Have spare primary and secondary filters aboard
Don't assume too much. I thought the feed must be OK because I was able to bleed earlier in the day. Problem must have been getting worse as I forced a lot of fuel through the pickup during my bleed sessions.
Always be conservative with respect to a "way out"

probably others you guys will identify.

Mike
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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GeoffSchultz
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:39 am
Location: BlueJacket: Guatemala
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Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by GeoffSchultz »

Glad that you got it worked out. This reminds me of my maiden voyage with BlueJacket, where I was absolutely clueless & didn't have any remote Internet access. There was a screen at the bottom of the pickup which clogged with algae after running for a while, which caused a suction to develop and an air leak to form & the engine to stall. I eventually figured that out at Woods Hole (imagine going through that channel with fuel problems...stupid...shudder!!!!) and talked to the guys at Freedom where they suggested that I remove the screen and do a "float check" with the screen. I asked "What's a float check?" and they said to throw it overboard and see if it floats! :-) I didn't do that, but I sure got rid of it!

-- Geoff
BlueJacket
1997 Freedom 40/40
http://www.GeoffSchultz.org

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mike cunningham
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by mike cunningham »

Geoff,

That is exactly what I was thinking. Why the heck would you put an inacessable screen on the end of the pickup when you have all those nice replaceable filters between the tank and the engine. I am not absolutely sure if there is a screen in there but I suspect there is.

This is another lesson by the way: always pay very close attention to what goes into your boat. I replaced the fuel tank just after I bought the boat 13 years ago and did not have a clue how to spec. the tank. Nowadays I would think very carefully about how I wanted that tank to be built.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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Castaway
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: Lerwick, Shetland Isles

Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by Castaway »

Had a similar first stage problem after taking on fuel which had been kept in an outdoor tank in the sun; hideous gunk in fuel had actually blocked both filters. Sucked a litre of muck from the bottom of the tank (I put a 10mm hole, tapped for a screw, in the top some years ago), changed the filters, then discovered the primary filter spare was the wrong size! Although not too far from land, we were in the centre of the Gulf of Riga TSS, with quite a lot of shipping but no wind. In desperation, I washed the paper filter in warm water: it did float, but perhaps that wasn't the true float test! After shaking it dry, I put it back and it worked for the next six hours until the wind picked up. Just shows how tolerant Volvo marine diesels can be. The engine revved to 2400 without any stuttering.

Moral of story; check you actually have the correct spares, but even unlikely improvisations can be successful. I admire Mike's perseverence in tracing his problem whilst still plugging along in a seaway.
Gerald Freshwater,
s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch, centreboard, 1987)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland

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sailmon
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Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by sailmon »

I can empathize with your diesel headaches. End of last summer the 3gm30f on our 1991 F38 developed a seriously problematic nuance. After running hard for 20 minutes or longer, the engine would stall when pulling the throttle back to idle. I could restart it right away, but it wouldn't idle. It would run ok at higher RPM (sometimes roughly, sometimes smoothly - but it would run). This created 2 serious problems. First, shifting into forward and reverse at higher RPM is very damaging to the transmission. Worst of all was not knowing on any given day if we would have brakes coming into the dock. This spring, we began working on the engine - doing some of the work ourselves and using a highly skilled Mack Boring certified tech for some of it. I'll spare you the gory details - but suffice it to say that over a 4 week period, we did a complete diesel tune up, had the injectors cleaned and serviced, pressure and vacuum tested the entire fuel delivery system, pumped out and replaced 37 gallons of (possibly stale)fuel, replaced the lift pump, primary and secondary fuel filters, primary fuel filter assembly, all crush washers, added an electric fuel delivery pump, consulted Mack Boring no less than 10 times, and did a voodoo dance. BTW - there was no screen on the fuel pick up tube - I did check. After all of that - and probably several steps I have forgotten, the symptoms continued to occur. Interestingly, if I would bleed the system after the symptom occurred, I would always get just a tiny bit of air out. Afterward it would run fine. When running properly, idle was always at factory spec - 900 RPM. If I had any hair, I probably would have torn it out. We finally realized that there was one small hose we had not replaced - the short steel mesh covered hose that runs (I believe from memory) between the lift pump and the injector pump. There must have been a pin hole in the rubber hose under the mesh... or there was a small defect in one of the connecting fittings. Either way, the symptom disappeared and has not recurred for the balance of the summer. I guess the old saying is true - that you always find what you are searching for in the last place you look... ok bad joke. That said, I guess we can justify the hundreds of dollars spent on the engine as something we would have to do before (hopefully) retiring and leaving to go cruising in the next few years.
Sailmon (Captain Bob Allenick)
S/V Her Diamond
1991 Freedom 38
Cleveland, OH

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Rick Simonds
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Location: Tallahassee, FL

Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by Rick Simonds »

Good stories, been there, done that, I identify. I had a dead engine from a completely clogged primary filter, and no spare, about 50 miles offshore a few years ago. By the time we got to the shore a crewmember had figured out how to bypass the filter using the plastic barrel from a ballpoint pen, just enough to motor the last the mile from the sea buoy to the dock.


This is only marginally related but I've been meaning to post it...

The local yacht club had a swap meet last spring. Everyone dragged out their extra or unused stuff and sold or traded it with everyone else. I bought some shackles I happened to find (brand new Wichard shackles for $1!) because I had noticed that the one connecting my mainsheet to the traveler car was slightly bent. A few weeks ago I finally got around to changing it out.

Who-WEE!! I'd seen the bend but not the wear. If that had let go, who knows...

Carry spares and inspect stuff often.
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daletournier
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Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by daletournier »

Heading through Indonesia last year we quite often had to buy our fuel of the beach. At Belitong the fuel was scooped out of cut in half 44gallon drums and filtered through socks i would then filter it through a west marine filter into the tank. The micron size of those west marine filters isnt that fine.To cut along story short i spent quite a few hours anchored at a little island right on the equator completly emptying my fuel tank into jerry cans ( thankfully had enough) and thouroughly cleaning the tank ( appreciate large inspection port) before refilling with clean fuel from my secondary fuel bladder. Remoteness adds a degree of stress to mechanical problems. A couple 100nms later in the dark heading up a channel towards Singapore the motor revs dropped dramaticaly, i assumed fuel filters again, bummer i was nearly out of clean ones. After changing them but noting they were clean i realized i had jumped to the wrong conclusion. Tired to a rope and knife in hand i went over board with torch to find prop fouled with a heap of plastic. Under way again, the next day heading up the course way between Singapore and Malaysia with AIS maxed out at 199 ships! Prop fouls again this time we have a whirly wind ( water spout ) coming down the channel at us, anyway all i can say was the Bourbon at Raffles marina that night was the best Ive ever tasted!
Im currently back in Australia for 3 months re experiencing normal life and it makes me more determined to continue cruising with all its little life living challenges as apposed to the creeping death of sameness of my old urban life.
Sorry, little of topic but all those little problems help fill the memory bank of adventures past.
Cheers Dale
Freeform.

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mike cunningham
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Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by mike cunningham »

Rick Simonds wrote:Good stories, been there, done that, I identify. I had a dead engine from a completely clogged primary filter, and no spare, about 50 miles offshore a few years ago. By the time we got to the shore a crewmember had figured out how to bypass the filter using the plastic barrel from a ballpoint pen, just enough to motor the last the mile from the sea buoy to the dock.


This is only marginally related but I've been meaning to post it...

The local yacht club had a swap meet last spring. Everyone dragged out their extra or unused stuff and sold or traded it with everyone else. I bought some shackles I happened to find (brand new Wichard shackles for $1!) because I had noticed that the one connecting my mainsheet to the traveler car was slightly bent. A few weeks ago I finally got around to changing it out.

Who-WEE!! I'd seen the bend but not the wear. If that had let go, who knows...

Carry spares and inspect stuff often.
That is AMAZING!!! during the same trip I was describing the fuel failure I had the bail on my main sheet traveler block fail. You are absolutely right, this would have been a disaster in a heavy breeze, thank goodness I was in a fairly light wind in the Carquinez Strait when I jibed and the thing broke. The main had an extra number of feet of travel as a result and the boom went well forward of the mast, had their been any real wind I would have lost the boom at the gooseneck for sure.

The bail that broke was a flat section bail which, when removed, looked extremely cheesy for the application. Just never noticed it before. The failure mode was SS crevice corrosion, it just cracked when that jibe snapped the sheet. I have replaced it with a solid shackle which, as you have found, can not be ignored either.

Mike
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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mike cunningham
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Engine failure adventure and the power of the internet

Post by mike cunningham »

Just a follow up to the adventure I wrote about in the first post of this thread.

I got a tank inspection plate for Christmas. Hey, we did a secret Santa thing and I got to ask for whatever I wanted.

Anyway, got the seabuilt plate see link. Installation was easy enough but I gotta tell you I approached the 6 inch hole cut with trepidation. Other than unbelievable noise as I made the cut and aluminum shavings everywhere, it was pretty straightforward. As soon as I had the hole cut I inspected the interior of the tank and, sure enough, there was a little pile of crud surrounding the uptake tube. It was not slime but semi hard crud, almost like paraffin but smelled like, I swear this is true, toe jam. Ha Ha. Well I got it out of there and had the interior or the tank shining like new in no time. Buttoned the hole up with the seabuilt pate system and back in business. If you have not already got an inspection plate installed I would highly recommend the seabuilt unit. Simple and well built. I think it will proved to be a good investment.

http://www.seabuilt.com/about.php
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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