Rudder problem

Engines, Drive trains, Propellers, Steering, Ground Tackle and other mechanical system

Rudder problem

Postby chandler » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:04 pm

I have a f33 cat ketch. The rudder is outboard hung.The uppermost gudgeon has 4 bolts into the transom. While investigating some pot warp on the propeller shaft I noticed one of the 4 bolts was about to fall out. Upon further investigation I determined that all 4 bolts were missing the nuts on the inside of the transom. As far as I can see it would take a very small person to get at these nuts from the inside...any suggestions?
Also any ideas for an emergency tiller for these rudders?
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby AlanK » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:49 pm

I have a US built F-33. I installed a wind vane and the lower brackets of the vane were near this. To make the installation easier/feasible I installed 4" or 5" circular access openings with screw in covers. On the starboard side I did one below and one above the engine cutoff so I could more easily get at the upper and lower brackets. Was simple enough the inside of is just fiberglass (no balsa like the actual outer transom) and I like being able to easily get at all areas anyway.I put mine high enough so I could also use the storage pocket bag insert in these and I store some safety gear there as well.
As for an emergency tiller mine came with one and it fits over the top of the rudder. However I have blocks on the rudder from my wind vane (which doesn't run lines to the wheel it works directly on the rudder) and can use the lines as an emergency tiller and run them to winches if needed.
Alan Hull #51
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby chandler » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:20 pm

Thanks Alan,
Hoping not to cut into the hull but you have to do what you have to do.
Is there anyway you could post a picture of your emergency tiller?
Thanks,
Chandler
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby 1980raven » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:07 pm

I removed the rudder and all mounting hardware as part of a major refit 2 years ago on Raven. In order to access the nuts I cut a hole in the cockpit liner at the proper height. To finish off the hole and have future access I installed a plastic screw in deck plate. When you remove the rudder mounting plate clean out the holes to be sure the coring is sealed and is not wet. From the inside of the hull you could drill out the holes with a hole saw to remove the balsa core (don't drill thru the outer hull skin). Tape over the outer holes and fill the new larger holes with West System 610 epoxy. For added strength I also installed a stainless steel backing plate that was 3 times the size of the rudder mounting bracket in both directions. Re drill your holes from the outside to make sure your rudder mounting bracket will still fit. Hope this helps.

Let me know if you still need a picture of an emergency tiller. I could send you one. Be well
Last edited by 1980raven on Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Freedom 28 CK Hull# 14, centerboard, wrap around sails with WB booms
Narragansett Bay, RI
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby AlanK » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:37 pm

As 1980raven said its not actually the hull you cut into. Its the thin liner from the inside of the cockpit.
I think the emergency tiller is the one thing I don't have a picture of. Its basically an aluminum pipe with aluminum plates welded to each side to create a box that fits over the rudder and pushes down a couple of inches. Be aware that the fit might need adjustment as mine would need to pounded with a large hammer to get it on and would be very difficult to get off but maybe that's how they planned it.
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby VeloFellow » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:06 pm

Probably the most disconcerting thing to me with my Freedom has been wondering what goes on in the small spaces. Behind the liners The Raven master knows more about these boats after his rebuild than just about anyone who wasn't on the build team. I took some pictures of the engine room and top of the fuel tank where I cant get my body. Grandchildren? Good info here.

I have not tried to hammer my emergency tiller on. It is welded steel and has some change of dimension by some rust of what looks like a square of steel plate stuck in to make it a tight fit. It seemed a tight fit until I painted....BIG hammer if I need it now. Projects.

Of course my yuloh could be my emergency tiller.
Mike
s/v Clave'
1981Freedom 28
Currently sailing Tampa Bay
Buit by Fairways Marine Hamble England
cat ketch, centerboard , wishbone booms, tides track slides
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Re: Rudder problem

Postby Castaway » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:32 am

Our emergency tiller is tubular stainless steel, with a welded right angle bend, and lugs at the forward end, presumably for lashings/self steering to be attached. It fits into a hole in the top of the rudder, which has a transverse pin across it, matching a slot in the end of the tiller.

I used it to lash the helm down when hove-to for some hours in rough seas, and the weld partially failed, leaving the tiller bent (still awaiting repair). I like the idea of a box section aluminium tiller, which would be lighter, and probably stronger, but the internal fitting is small and neat, meaning less storage problem. The one I have fits flat in the side locker beneath the cockpit coaming.
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s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland
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