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New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:26 pm
by Castaway
Finally fed up with our old Volvo Penta 2003 engine and MS2 gearbox, now both more than 30 years old; they've got to go!
The obvious replacement is a VP D1-30, similar specification, a little lighter, but, the engineer told me, rather wider in the posterior, such that the gearbox and bell housing may not fit in the space available. His suggestion was to move the engine forward, which would reduce the already inadequate cabin sole area by about 20%. We are unhappy with this.

Other possibilities are Yanmar 3YM30 or BetaMarine 30, both slightly lighter and of similar specification, though the position of alternator/oil filter/ dipstick etc are reversed. There may be more, of which we are unaware.

Has anyone replaced the engine on a UK F35? and if so, with what, and how well did it work out?

I have no idea if the original US design has the same size engine compartment, since there is no aft cabin, but any experience reading Volvo, Yanmar or Kobuta engine replacement would be welcome.

I need to decide what to choose next week, so thanks in advance for any early comments. Enjoy the rest of the sailing season!

Gerald

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:35 am
by andygc
Not a F35 owner, but I am a fan of Beta diesels - I put a new 13HP in my last boat and I have a 20HP in Feronia. I've also been in much bigger yachts and motor boats with Betas. The customer support is excellent, particularly for a UK-based owner because it is a British company that assembles the engines in the UK. If the configuration is a problem don't forget Nanni. They use the same Kubota engine blocks as Beta, but the ancillaries are located differently. However, I know nothing about their customer support.

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:02 am
by Castaway
Thanks for your comment, Andy. Mike Johnston on "Arran Comrades" also fitted a Beta Marine, and was pleased with the result, but it took a lot of work (he did it himself).

We have decided to get a Volvo Penta D1-30, which is quite small – we went to look at one - and ought to fit, despite the engineer's misgivings. Now we have to fix a price and time with the yard here. Should have done it in Shetland in 2015!

Best wishes,

Gerald

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:09 pm
by phildowney
Kusi has a beta 29 hp fitted by a previous owner. if you would find pictures of any aspect, pm me on facebook https://www.facebook.com/boatgirluk, as im not often on here.

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:00 am
by arrancomrades
Gerald, oh dear, however the old VP would almost certainly have given trouble eventually. There is a market for such old engines in England, they seem to be reconditioned and sent to Africa - I got £500 plus carriage, unseen.

Gearbox may indeed be a problem, my Beta came with a very (too?) small Hurth box which just fits. Unfortunately at the time Beta would not consider supplying a back plate to suite the old VP box - there are many of these around and they will take the 40hp of the turbo 3-cyl. Choice of box/prop is a key decision which I got somewhat wrong. I might suggest better to cut into the bearers which are just hollow GRP boxes. I was able to bridge from the old bolt sockets to oak wedges that the new engine is on - lot of fiddling and measuring, but I had time. I had to cut access ports from the sump side into the bearers to do nuts/washers. Check fore/aft angle as the shaft is at 13 degrees, less the 8 degrees of the VP box.

I got an engine with a flat sump so it would sit in the cabin unsupported. Built up 6" on the aft bunks with planks and put 2 x 4"x4" baulks across with vertical threaded rods which allowed me to lift and shuffle the engine out of the main cabin (mast removed!) into the engine space and back - 4 times. Sheath the floor with cheap ply.

With Beta permission, I removed the alternator and gearbox before hoisting thru the hatch. I persuaded the yard to use a chain block hung from the crane hook for the drop through the hatch, and the removal of a much dismantled old engine. This reduced the risk of sudden lift/drop from a crane driver who can't see what's happening.

I also replaced the calorifier and re-sited the exhaust trap - all a lot of work and the exhaust bore may be different - I cheated. Heights for all these pipes and the exhaust vent may be challenging.

Lots of photos. Suggest you contact by email if you want more.

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:32 pm
by Castaway
Thanks for all that info, Mike. I did seriously consider the BetaMarine option, but the work is going to be done in Sweden, and I couldn't easily get a price for one, delivered there. Like many firms, they don't want to deal directly with the public about prices.

We'll still have the problems of exhaust fitting, but the engineer thinks the new Volvo should fit into the same space. All I have to do now is tie him down to a schedule, so I can have the boat closed up for the winter, and ready to go next season!

I think you were very brave to do the work yourself; since the boat isn't in Lerwick, I'm excused that option.

Regards,

Gerald

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:12 pm
by Goose13
Go electric, I have an F33ck/cb and I converted 2 years ago, it cost less, less maintenance, unlimited range and as long as the battery has juice it will always run. No more diesel smell, no more oil changes, no more exhaust fumes if your running with the wind. There is currently an electric sailboat going across the Pacific (Cinderella). If u do go electric go with lithium batteries, it is worth the money. I also pulled the old engine out and put the new one in by myself, you don't have to be a mechanic to do it. Just remember your grad school electricity class (+, -, volts, amps, watts), it is that easy.

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:22 pm
by Castaway
Goose, I had thought about electric, but the range is a serious problem. We don't do it often, but when we have a 200 nm crossing of the North Sea to do, and a short weather window, the option of running the motor continuously for 30+ hours is important. A hybrid diesel/electric would meet our needs, but they are heavy and expensive. We also like to spend as little time in marinas as is practicable, so charging would always be a problem.

We had hoped to meet up with Shae77 (who posts here), to see his electric conversion in an F33/35, but he was wisely away sailing the weekend we passed Malmo and went under the Oresund Bridge.

If we lived in a better world, where we never had to make a rendezvous, catch a ferry home or get to a distant harbour before the weather breaks, electric power would be the ideal! Now, though, we need a reliable long distance power plant.
Regards,

Gerald

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:07 pm
by seadago
Hi Gerald
Have you replaced the engine already? What was your choice?
Thanks
Rafa

Re: New engine for UK F 35 cat ketch

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:26 pm
by Castaway
Hello, Rafa, we haven't got the engine replaced yet, but there is a new VolvoPenta D1-30 on order, with a gearbox giving slightly higher revs since they no longer make an exact replacement, and I would not, any way, want to keep the old one. Our mechanic in Sweden has, I hope, removed the old motor, so it should all be finished by the start of next season. Managing everything 600 miles away in another country is fairly challenging, however.
We are looking forward to better hot water and more electricity, as well as some modicum of reliability. I shall report when all is done.
Gerald