Square top mainsail for F35
-
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Square top mainsail for F35
Hi All,
I live in Boston, am expecting to buy a new mainsail this winter, and have gotten quotes from the standard NorthEast people (Thurston, Doyle, North):
- Doyle proposed either a Dacron high roach sail of about 560SF, or a Dacron high square top with their anomaly headboard of about 570SF.
- North proposed a Dacron square top of about 521SF. No idea how this would flake.
- Thurston proposed a laminate high roach mainsail of about 517SF.
I think that the square tops look pretty (perhaps more important than how they work). A very fussy friend however claims that he's heard of longevity problems with the Doyle square tops.
May I ask whether other people have heard of such longevity issues, as well as thoughts around putting up that much sail?
Happiness and thanks,
Andrew
I live in Boston, am expecting to buy a new mainsail this winter, and have gotten quotes from the standard NorthEast people (Thurston, Doyle, North):
- Doyle proposed either a Dacron high roach sail of about 560SF, or a Dacron high square top with their anomaly headboard of about 570SF.
- North proposed a Dacron square top of about 521SF. No idea how this would flake.
- Thurston proposed a laminate high roach mainsail of about 517SF.
I think that the square tops look pretty (perhaps more important than how they work). A very fussy friend however claims that he's heard of longevity problems with the Doyle square tops.
May I ask whether other people have heard of such longevity issues, as well as thoughts around putting up that much sail?
Happiness and thanks,
Andrew
- moosemcclintock
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:09 am
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
There are no problems making square head mains so long as the geometry of the loads on the slides is correctly addressed. I had two on my F21 (the 2nd one wasn't a replacement, it was a development) and I have one on my F25 currently. Doyle designed all three, no issues there on longevity or construction. I know that Doyle had an issue with a laminate square head on an Alerion 38 in the Boston area but that was a failure of a supplied membrane, it was repaired and lasted and performed just fine until the owner sold the boat. As far as a laminate compared to a dacron sail, the laminate will be lighter and probably won't last as long but will provide superior performance, if that's what you're looking for. I know that all my square heads have added about 5-7% more area, it doesn't seem to make much difference over 10 knots, there's more punch below that and it's always faster down wind. All three sailmakers make excellent sails so you can't go wrong there, it all depends on what you're looking for in both performance and durability.
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
Hi Andrew,
I sail an F35 out of Marblehead. We too are looking at new sails. I am looking at Thurston's tri-radial dacron sail. Costs more than the cross cut dacron but less than the laminate. I have a laminate sail currently which has delaminated. It can't be cleaned in the condition it is in. You can recognize my boat by the dirty sail! Longevity is driving me toward the tri-radial sail.
I sail an F35 out of Marblehead. We too are looking at new sails. I am looking at Thurston's tri-radial dacron sail. Costs more than the cross cut dacron but less than the laminate. I have a laminate sail currently which has delaminated. It can't be cleaned in the condition it is in. You can recognize my boat by the dirty sail! Longevity is driving me toward the tri-radial sail.
Stephen Lee
Salacia
F35 Pedrick
Marblehead MA and Rockland ME
Salacia
F35 Pedrick
Marblehead MA and Rockland ME
-
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
Thanks, I'll probably go back to Steve and ask for an update in triradial dacron. Still undecided about which sail, but more competition always better than less.
Happiness,
Andrew
Happiness,
Andrew
- VeloFellow
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:41 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
The previous owner of our freedom 28 cat ketch upgraded to squaretops from Knighton sailmakers Sarasota Fl loft. My first squartops.
Make sure they include a system to unplug your gaff batten. It is a pain inserting the battens and they need to be removed when the sails come down unless you like a 10-15sq ft shark fin flying all the time. I found that was more sail than I wanted at 60knots;-) But it makes our look even more distinctive. The sailmakers each have their own way to release the gaff now. And they call it by a different name. I think it is a good addition if not included in your initial bid.
Here is Clave just before hoisting and sailing away from the dock:
Make sure they include a system to unplug your gaff batten. It is a pain inserting the battens and they need to be removed when the sails come down unless you like a 10-15sq ft shark fin flying all the time. I found that was more sail than I wanted at 60knots;-) But it makes our look even more distinctive. The sailmakers each have their own way to release the gaff now. And they call it by a different name. I think it is a good addition if not included in your initial bid.
Here is Clave just before hoisting and sailing away from the dock:
- Attachments
-
- longbeach clave.jpg (165.58 KiB) Viewed 10181 times
Mike
s/v Clave'
1981Freedom 28 #112
Currently sailing Tampa Bay
Buit by Fairways Marine Hamble England
cat ketch, centerboard , wishbone booms, tides track slides
yanmar 2ym15 2blade prop
s/v Clave'
1981Freedom 28 #112
Currently sailing Tampa Bay
Buit by Fairways Marine Hamble England
cat ketch, centerboard , wishbone booms, tides track slides
yanmar 2ym15 2blade prop
-
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
Thanks, I was indeed wondering about the gaff approach taken by sailmakers. Doyle pushes the a dipping headboard (http://www.doylesails.com/anomaly/), though I imagine that adds considerable complexity to large sails. But I haven't seen alternatives from other vendors (and the North proposal didn't include any corresponding information).
- VeloFellow
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:41 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
Knighton told my brother who talked the the sailmaker that theirs was a better solution.
As i mentioned, just about all the sail makers have their mod of solving this issue. Theoretically it gives more effective sail area at the tip ...I cant say. The previous owner claimed advantage, but said the change didn't make the boat go better upwind.
As i mentioned, just about all the sail makers have their mod of solving this issue. Theoretically it gives more effective sail area at the tip ...I cant say. The previous owner claimed advantage, but said the change didn't make the boat go better upwind.
Mike
s/v Clave'
1981Freedom 28 #112
Currently sailing Tampa Bay
Buit by Fairways Marine Hamble England
cat ketch, centerboard , wishbone booms, tides track slides
yanmar 2ym15 2blade prop
s/v Clave'
1981Freedom 28 #112
Currently sailing Tampa Bay
Buit by Fairways Marine Hamble England
cat ketch, centerboard , wishbone booms, tides track slides
yanmar 2ym15 2blade prop
- Teke's Pride
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:56 am
- Location: Lake Guntersville, AL
- Contact:
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
I got a new Square Top from Mack Sails 12 months ago and have been extremely happy with the performance and price. Mack uses top shelf USA made Dacron; cuts & sews the sails in Stewart, FL; and somehow manages to sell them for close to Thailand loft prices!
The guys at Mack originally made the sail with the top batten and pocket 4' long. It performed well but I had specked 3' so I sent it back to be re-cut per my original order (no charge). It cost me a couple sq.ft. but I haven't noticed any loss of performance. The important thing for me is how much easier it is to get the shorter batten in and out of the sail. The batten pocket is secured with a 8" Velcro flap over the end.
Photo of sail with 4 ft top batten:
Sail with 3 ft top batten:
The guys at Mack originally made the sail with the top batten and pocket 4' long. It performed well but I had specked 3' so I sent it back to be re-cut per my original order (no charge). It cost me a couple sq.ft. but I haven't noticed any loss of performance. The important thing for me is how much easier it is to get the shorter batten in and out of the sail. The batten pocket is secured with a 8" Velcro flap over the end.
Photo of sail with 4 ft top batten:
Sail with 3 ft top batten:
Clark Myers
Teke's Pride
F21 #345
Black Finn
F40 AC CK #41
Browns Creek Sailing Association
Guntersville, AL
http://www.youtube.com/LambdaZetaTeke
Teke's Pride
F21 #345
Black Finn
F40 AC CK #41
Browns Creek Sailing Association
Guntersville, AL
http://www.youtube.com/LambdaZetaTeke
-
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
That does look very pretty. I've asked Steve about the Triradial Dacron high roach mainsail, but it's hard to compete with a picture like that. Particularly as the technical problems become better understood and less expensive (Doyle is quoting about 800$ price differential between a standard "High Roach Bluewater" sail and the corresponding Square Top).
Happiness,
Andrew
Happiness,
Andrew
-
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Re: Square top mainsail for F35
I just wanted to add a note for the historical record: I ended up buying a square top mainsail from Doyle. I purchased it in the late fall discount period, originally with the idea of hoisting it a few times this year to check on fit, etc. But the weather conspired against that approach, so instead it's sitting at the Doyle factory waiting for spring (will post photos when it arrives).
Including discounts, the final cost was around 6k --- about 500$ more than a triradial Dacron mainsail from Thurston. Pairing against the much greater sail area (570sf vs 520sf), we set up a very aggressive first reef near the normal second reef point.
Including discounts, the final cost was around 6k --- about 500$ more than a triradial Dacron mainsail from Thurston. Pairing against the much greater sail area (570sf vs 520sf), we set up a very aggressive first reef near the normal second reef point.