Camberspar bent, now what?

Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby mike cunningham » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:21 pm

During the singlehanded transpac I ran into the remnants of hurricane Celia and had to deal with 40 knot winds for a few hours. Prior to this I had been sailing in 30 Knots for about a day and a half. During the last 12 to 18 hours I was down to the jib only and continued to make over six knots downwind, up to ten knots when surfing.

One of my colleagues in the vicinity indicated he saw gusts to 50 kts.

In any event, the sheet/topping lift fitting was torn off the camberspar and the camberspar itself was bent. This resulted in flogging and damage to the sail. The camberspar bending is the main issue.

I will have the sheet/topping lift fitting welded back on in Hawaii and the sail can be repaired/replaced of course. I took the camberspar off the boat and did a dockside bending exercise using one of the big dock cleats as a lever. This worked OK but I have no idea the correct radius of the camberspar. I would do a bend, take the spar aboard and eyeball its position relative to the mast when the forward sheave was set up against the forestay. I think I am close length wise but the bend in the spar is no longer a smooth one. Probably fine to get home from Hawaii but I will need to re- evaluate when the boat is back in Cali.

Are these spars available any longer? Has anyone just converted to a standard jib? I realize a conversion comes with baggage including jib track, winches, etc. But I felt pretty constrained by the sailplan.

Any thoughts on the above?

Mike
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby GeoffSchultz » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:23 pm

The pocket on your jib can be used as a model for the bend radius.

I've seen quite a few Freedoms with conventional foresail rigs, but that's kind of getting away from the Freedom concept. Then again, the boat wasn't exactly designed for what you or I have done with it.

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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby Hans » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:10 pm

Mike, what a wonderful enterprise: Singelhanded Tranpsac, I don't wear a hat but I'll take my virtual hat off in salutation for you.
According to a bent camberspar:
I experienced the same problem: a bent camberspar and ripped fitting after a lot of wind during a crossing. I had it bent back in the original curve but it bent again real quick after another blow. So I asked Paul Dennis to ship a new one to Europe, but not made out of the tube normally used for the 38ft but made out of the tube used for the 45ft. With this stronger made camberspar never had this problem with my 38 again.
Same problem arose with the camberspar on the 45ft. Again Paul send me a new one which still functions properly, but in this case I reduced the sailarea of the jib and had the fitting strengthened. I can sail now nicely balanced 30+ knots with double reefed main. ( Double reef is really deep on Scherezade) But to be honest I have not experienced more than 40+ winds with this new camberspar.
Sometimes I wonder how a roller furling would work with a Freedom. My guess is that it doesn't properly. You need a real tight straight forestay which I think is difficult to obtain with a flexible mast. In a former ( pre Freedom) sailing life I crewed on a boat with a blocked furler ( could not roll in more and/or completely out). It was a real mess when the wind piped up.
As it is I am quite happy with the camberspar. When I needed new parts Paul Dennis could always supply them.
Good Luck with your trip,
Hans Hansen, Harlingen,The Netherlands.
Freedom 45AC #47 "Scherezade".
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby TomBianca » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:00 am

For future consideration, our F45cc is fitted with a Seldn roller furled, self tacking track and a North battened jib. We can maintain good speed at 30 deg apparent in 12+Kts. Off the wind we use barber hauler to rail to reduce the clews hook inward-seems to make a difference. We cannot get the same self-vanged shape down wind without a pole as we do on or F32 that does have the camber spar. Have seen some Freedom with conversion to the newer Hoyt jib boom. I could imagine that the standard camber spar is not well suited for serious off-shore heavy weather.

Cheers,Tom/Die Walkure F45cc
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby mike cunningham » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:29 am

Thanks much for the responses. I was able to get the spar back to very close to its original radius. I was quite proud of myself given the somewhat limited resources at Nawiliwili in Kauai. I could not get enough leverage with my body weight and the big cleat so I grabbed the scissor jack from my rental car, braced the spar under the cleat and pretty quickly had the bend where I wanted it. Got a welder to reweld the sheet topping lift fitting and I was ready to go.

I do agree that the initial bend is bound to weaken the spar so I need to continue to seek a replacement of alternative. I will give Paul Dennis a call and see what he recommends.

In the meantime the boat is on its way back to Cali in the hands of a few fellow sailors from Hawaii. She is currently heading NNE at 38 north by 150 West and will be turning the corner for the SF Bay pretty soon now.
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby mike cunningham » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Delayed post to follow this up. The delivery crew destroyed my delivery jib (original Haarstick) on the way back. A lot of flogging in gale alley. I am going to trash this old old sail.

My race jib was also damaged and I took the thing to Pineapple sails in Alameda. They sold me a new sail which I have yet to rig. Pineapple also determined the correct radius for the camberspar and farmed my spar out to Svendson's metal works to bend the spar to the correct shape and to re-weld all fittings to correct orientation...long story.

An interesting suggestion from Pineapple. If I don't want to give up on the camberspar why not have someone build one out of carbon? Might be expensive but would probably be bulletproof.

In the meantime I delivered my Quantum race main and jib to Marchal sail repair in Alameda to do repairs (Pineapple is not keen on repairs) and fix the batten retention system which was a disaster on this sail. I almost lost a batten on the way out and same happened to delivery crew on the way back.

I should finally have all my bits and pieces in one place by mid December and will begin to reconstruct my rig. I will end up with a Pineapple jib and Quatum main for racing. I plan to use the repaired quantum jib and original Haarstick main for cruising.

The mast is out again and lying Berkeley Marine center. I got the tricolor properly aligned, a new VHF whip installed and properly locktighted, the Raymarine wind transducer cleaned up and re-installed and my steaming/decklight re-wired and, this time, protected with a proper line fouling guard. There was substantial corrosion inside the wind transducer plug which I have cleaned and sealed with dielectric grease. I have become a major fan of dielectric grease for all removable connections. The delivery crew experienced an electrical fire in the cockpit when a SeatalkNG backbone cable connector corroded and partially shorted. Although backbone power is protected by a 5 amp breaker, there was, apparently, enough current thru the resistant corrosion to heat the connector up and create a little ball of fire in the middle of the night. Disconcerting to say the least. Any Raymarine connectors on the weather deck are going to be dielectric greased from now on.

Another interesting finding. The black plastic batten sleeves at the main luff bore up against the mast when I was off the wind during the race. These chafed surprisingly deep grooves in the mast covering. In one case all the way down to the carbon. I have to take a close look at that and determine how to protect in future. I am going to fill the grooves with epoxy later today.
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby mike cunningham » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:55 pm

Hans,

Way delayed response to your post. I agree with you re the camberspar. I actually like this sail and rig a lot so long as it is set up to take some abuse. I am working on that. During the latter part of the race after I had damaged the spar, I rigged my storm jib which worked extremely well hanked directly to the forestay which I keep pretty tight.

My storm jib is about 65 square feet. I added a 36 inch wire pennant to the tack so I can get it well above the bundle of the lowered camberspar jib. The sheets are run to blocks attached to the big cleats on the stern quarters thence to the winches. This worked extremely well, however I need to find a way to secure the the sail in a ready to go location PRIOR to anticipated heavy weather. I was thinking of some sort of sail bag on the fordeck.

The real challenge is the storm trisail which I could have used at least once during the trip. There is absolutely no way I would be able to rig that sail in 30 kts of wind. I had considered an approach where I would drop the main and raise the trisail on parrels thus avoiding the use of the sailtrack. This sounds good but you are still faced with lacing the parrels around the mast in crappy weather not to mention the potential for damage to the surface of the mast. So a separate track or some sort of split track seems to be the solution. This is complicated by the gooseneck bulge.

I suppose another option would be to have yet another reef (#4) sewn into the main but that has its own complications.
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby gulfcoastsailor » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:08 pm

This may or may not be of interest, but I believe it was Mr. Hoyt who gave me this contact info for the current owner of the Bierig Camberspar:

Bill Coleman: 814 474 3370

Hope it is still a good contact.
Chip

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1985 #72
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby bobr » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:10 am

gulfcoastsailor wrote:This may or may not be of interest, but I believe it was Mr. Hoyt who gave me this contact info for the current owner of the Bierig Camberspar:

Bill Coleman: 814 474 3370

Hope it is still a good contact.


http://www.coletech.net/Custom_Items.htm
Bob R.
1995 Freedom 35 (Pedrick)
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Re: Camberspar bent, now what?

Postby Hans » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:51 am

Mike,

Curious to know how you'll solve the storm/ trysail problem. I had an issue once about 'weather helm in a one mast Freedom' and Geoff replied that reef, reef and reef again was the solution.
So when I ordered a new mainsail I had three deep reefs made ( first is now where normal the second is). I can now only agree with Geoff. Boat handles much better without hardly loosing any speed.
I had the third reef made to produce a storm sail. So far I never needed this 3 reef and the 2 only once during adverse weather in the Gulf Stream on a trip from Bermuda to Newport.
Handling and hoisting a trysail in storm conditions doesn't seem like a real option to me. In 50+ knots condition I am on all fours when going forward. Standing will be difficult, handling a sail almost out of the question. I am really content now with a mainsail that can handles almost any condition so far and being able to claw away from a lee shore. But reefing and storm tactics probably also depends where you are, how much sea room there is how long the blow is going to last. Interested in your opinion in this matter but doesn't know whether this subject fits in a bent camberspar thread.
Hans Hansen, Harlingen,The Netherlands.
Freedom 45AC #47 "Scherezade".
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