30/32 Hoyt or Mull and general info

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1

Posted by dmairspotter (dpotter@…>)

I shouldn’t even be looking at boats, but I am. I keep coming back to
Freedoms. I would love to be looking at 35’s but now is not the time.
I have been looking at 30-32’s and find both the Hoyt and Mull designs
very interesting. I would love to get feedback from Freedom owners on
the relative merits.

My wife and I sail on the coast of Maine. We currently have a 30 year
old 27 footer. While I enjoy working on boats, my current boat is in
dire need of a complete repaint (bottom, topsides, and deck), sails,
and soon enough a new diesel. Before I dump that kind of money in it,
I’d like to evaluate the purchase of a newer boat.

We mostly daysail with 1-5 people, and once and a while overnight with
just the two of us. My wife likes to ride on sailboats, I like to
sail. I like to go quickly, but I don’t have to be the fastest boat in
the bay. Being able to tack upwind without asking Milady to grind a
winch is a major attraction of the Freedom, along with the no shrouds
thing. Spinnaker sailing in very rare to never, although it would be
nice to be able to set a gennaker.

I envision that either Freedom would be a step up in cruising comfort
and ease of sailing. I really like the looks of the Hoyt interior, but
I like the external appearance of the Mull design a little better,
plus the Mulls are newer and therefore may be a little less prone to
major work.

I think if I had the Hoyt I would loose the gun mount since easy
relaxed sailing/anchoring is the goal.

Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts that might direct me in one way
or the other? All input is greatly appreciated!

2

Posted by Kevin Taylor (kevin683@…>)

Hi,

We just finished our second sailing season with our Hoyt 32. I am
definitely in a different demographic than you. We are a couple with
two elementary-aged kids sailing on Lake Michigan, out of Chicago.
But, it sounds like our motivations may be similar. I love to sail and
my wife enjoys coming along for the ride. So, we needed a boat that
would hold the family in comfort at the dock but would be easy enough
for me to handle by myself when needed, if the wife had her hands full
supervising kids.

Lake Michigan will have much different sea conditions than Maine.
Waves tend to be short and steep here. But, we are fair-weather
sailors so avoid any rough conditions. When I have been in 20-25 kt
winds, boat has been very stiff with little sea helm.

The only downside for us is that it is very beamy and can be a handful
to maneuver in tight quarters or in very windy conditions (high
topsides). This may be my learning curve, as my previous sailing was
done on J-22s and J-30s–worlds apart from this family cruiser.

To sum up, we love the boat and it was a perfect choice for us.

–Kevin

On Nov 24, 2007 10:08 AM, dmairspotter <dpotter@…> wrote:

I shouldn’t even be looking at boats, but I am. I keep coming back to
Freedoms. I would love to be looking at 35’s but now is not the time.
I have been looking at 30-32’s and find both the Hoyt and Mull designs
very interesting. I would love to get feedback from Freedom owners on
the relative merits.

My wife and I sail on the coast of Maine. We currently have a 30 year
old 27 footer. While I enjoy working on boats, my current boat is in
dire need of a complete repaint (bottom, topsides, and deck), sails,
and soon enough a new diesel. Before I dump that kind of money in it,
I’d like to evaluate the purchase of a newer boat.

We mostly daysail with 1-5 people, and once and a while overnight with
just the two of us. My wife likes to ride on sailboats, I like to
sail. I like to go quickly, but I don’t have to be the fastest boat in
the bay. Being able to tack upwind without asking Milady to grind a
winch is a major attraction of the Freedom, along with the no shrouds
thing. Spinnaker sailing in very rare to never, although it would be
nice to be able to set a gennaker.

I envision that either Freedom would be a step up in cruising comfort
and ease of sailing. I really like the looks of the Hoyt interior, but
I like the external appearance of the Mull design a little better,
plus the Mulls are newer and therefore may be a little less prone to
major work.

I think if I had the Hoyt I would loose the gun mount since easy
relaxed sailing/anchoring is the goal.

Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts that might direct me in one way
or the other? All input is greatly appreciated!

3

Posted by Medium Al (hjulbyhavn@…>)

I really wanted to like the Mull-F30 but found it to be very small
when I went forward. At 5’11" and 210# I am not far out of the normal
range. It was a squeeze past the open folding door to the V birth and
there was no way to get in and out w/o waking the first mate. The aft
cabin is also “cozy.”

If it fits you, it would be a great boat, but for someone like me
that wants to keep the next one into retirement it is too “sporty”
for a body that does not unfold readily in the morning.

The Mull is undoubtedly handles crisper but the Hoyt is quite capable
in the big stuff. The F32H is much roomier - due to freeboard and
beam - nothing is free.

The F32H and F33H are getting old. TP did not bother sealing the
balsa core when mounting through-deck hardware. Neglected boats will
have core problem.

I have been watching the market for over a year, getting ready to
make a move myself and have seen a lot of deals “fall out of bed”
after a while (boats come back on the market), suggesting that the
boats survey “pass rate” is about 50%. Of course I don’t know if the
deals break because of severe problems or resistance by seller to
adjust the price. Some of us have a tendency to fall in love with
these buggers.

I have been told that recoring a deck could easily cost $10.000 -
maybe someone else have some experience and hard data.

4

Posted by douglas.domurat (douglas.domurat@…>)

Hi Folks,

New to the forum but not new to Freedom. In the early 80’s I had a
wonderful little F28 cat ketch. Moved up in the mid 80’s to an F36
and lived aboard that in Newport Beach until 1991. Moved to Thailand
and stopped sailing. Well the itch is back. The budget however is
around the Mull/Hoyt 30-32 range as I’ll need to ship it across the
world to Thailand. I’m a bit apprehensive about that cumbersome
process. Any advice here is greatly appreciated!

I thoroughly enjoyed the F36 Mull design and thus I’m inclined to go
that way again (Mull). But in the 80’s I had the pleasure of sailing
with Gary Hoyt aboard his first F32. Impressive but I worry a bit
about resale as Mull carries a pretty good name worldwide while Hoyt
is something of a maverick albeit a very successful, creative, and
gentleman one! His creations I generally admire.

Any comments on the F36 cat ketch? I read on the net that its a bit
bow heavy and buries a bit in seas. The bow profile not really
designed for the heavy mast up front. But getting up to this size
screams past my budget.

My requirements are not very extreme in any given area. Just want a
quality, single handed, free standing rig for weekend island hopping
with my wife. No long passage makeing, no racing, no real extreme
weather, etc. Even looked at the Hunter Vision 32 (heaven forbid).
Got some nice features but doesn’t carry the same quality image as
TPI.

I’m happy to be pursuing sailing again after a 16 year hiatus.

I appreciate anyones comments, suggestions and opinions.

Cheers,

Doug

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Medium Al”
<hjulbyhavn@…> wrote:

I really wanted to like the Mull-F30 but found it to be very small
when I went forward. At 5’11" and 210# I am not far out of the
normal
range. It was a squeeze past the open folding door to the V birth
and
there was no way to get in and out w/o waking the first mate. The
aft
cabin is also “cozy.”

If it fits you, it would be a great boat, but for someone like me
that wants to keep the next one into retirement it is too “sporty”
for a body that does not unfold readily in the morning.

The Mull is undoubtedly handles crisper but the Hoyt is quite
capable
in the big stuff. The F32H is much roomier - due to freeboard and
beam - nothing is free.

The F32H and F33H are getting old. TP did not bother sealing the
balsa core when mounting through-deck hardware. Neglected boats
will
have core problem.

I have been watching the market for over a year, getting ready to
make a move myself and have seen a lot of deals “fall out of bed”
after a while (boats come back on the market), suggesting that the
boats survey “pass rate” is about 50%. Of course I don’t know if
the
deals break because of severe problems or resistance by seller to
adjust the price. Some of us have a tendency to fall in love with
these buggers.

I have been told that recoring a deck could easily cost $10.000 -
maybe someone else have some experience and hard data.

5

Posted by guestallan (guestallan@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “douglas.domurat”
<douglas.domurat@…> wrote:

Hi Doug!

I am almost in the same boat as you! ( No bun intended…lol!)
I am also boatless and been away from sailing far too long. I have
sailed mostly C&C 30’ to 39’ for almost 30 years and have sailed
twice in the Carib, once for 17 mths.
At 54 I am looking at a rig that’s easy to sail single-handed or a
crew of 2. When my wife retires in 4 years we plan to spend 3 to
6mths liveaboard in the Caribbean and the rest at our cottage on Lake
Huron. We would keep the boat down south.
I have been attracted to a un-stayed rig for obvious
reasons.Therefore I have looked at the Freedom 30,32,33,36. I would
like to know what the difference is between the Hoyt and Mull
designs. There appears to be little info out there on Freedom boats,
sadly. Perghaps some of the members here could pipe in!!!

I have also looked at the Hunter Vision 32 & 36 (Heaven forbid!!!)
as well as the Nonsuch 30 which is as well built boat in my opinion,
but not attractive to my eyes. I am also on a tight budget. I believe
for my purposes the Freedom 30 would be too small for a liveaboard
for 2 adults for 3-6 mths a year. But since I have never had the
opportunity to board one I might be wrong.Maybe others here could
give their opinions.

Doug have you checked out the Nonsuch line? They aren’t cheap, but a
friend has one in Trinidad and he loves it. The 30’ goes for 35-70k,
The 33’ is out of my budget 95-125k. The 36’ is cheaper than a 33’
(go figure) 69-100k. The nonsuch line are heavier displacement hulls
than the Freedoms. Which makes me somewhat worried about motion
comfort on some of the Freedom boats. I am not into racing anymore.
Just cruising,so motion comfort, storage and space down below are
important for me. If I had the $$$$ I would love a Freedom 35 but
they are out of my price range.
Fair winds, Allan

\

Hi Folks,

New to the forum but not new to Freedom. In the early 80’s I had a
wonderful little F28 cat ketch. Moved up in the mid 80’s to an F36
and lived aboard that in Newport Beach until 1991. Moved to
Thailand
and stopped sailing. Well the itch is back. The budget however is
around the Mull/Hoyt 30-32 range as I’ll need to ship it across the
world to Thailand. I’m a bit apprehensive about that cumbersome
process. Any advice here is greatly appreciated!

I thoroughly enjoyed the F36 Mull design and thus I’m inclined to
go
that way again (Mull). But in the 80’s I had the pleasure of
sailing
with Gary Hoyt aboard his first F32. Impressive but I worry a bit
about resale as Mull carries a pretty good name worldwide while
Hoyt
is something of a maverick albeit a very successful, creative, and
gentleman one! His creations I generally admire.

Any comments on the F36 cat ketch? I read on the net that its a bit
bow heavy and buries a bit in seas. The bow profile not really
designed for the heavy mast up front. But getting up to this size
screams past my budget.

My requirements are not very extreme in any given area. Just want a
quality, single handed, free standing rig for weekend island
hopping
with my wife. No long passage makeing, no racing, no real extreme
weather, etc. Even looked at the Hunter Vision 32 (heaven forbid).
Got some nice features but doesn’t carry the same quality image as
TPI.

I’m happy to be pursuing sailing again after a 16 year hiatus.

I appreciate anyones comments, suggestions and opinions.

Cheers,

Doug

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Medium Al”
<hjulbyhavn@> wrote:

I really wanted to like the Mull-F30 but found it to be very
small
when I went forward. At 5’11" and 210# I am not far out of the
normal
range. It was a squeeze past the open folding door to the V birth
and
there was no way to get in and out w/o waking the first mate. The
aft
cabin is also “cozy.”

If it fits you, it would be a great boat, but for someone like me
that wants to keep the next one into retirement it is
too “sporty”
for a body that does not unfold readily in the morning.

The Mull is undoubtedly handles crisper but the Hoyt is quite
capable
in the big stuff. The F32H is much roomier - due to freeboard and
beam - nothing is free.

The F32H and F33H are getting old. TP did not bother sealing the
balsa core when mounting through-deck hardware. Neglected boats
will
have core problem.

I have been watching the market for over a year, getting ready to
make a move myself and have seen a lot of deals “fall out of bed”
after a while (boats come back on the market), suggesting that
the
boats survey “pass rate” is about 50%. Of course I don’t know if
the
deals break because of severe problems or resistance by seller to
adjust the price. Some of us have a tendency to fall in love with
these buggers.

I have been told that recoring a deck could easily cost $10.000 -
maybe someone else have some experience and hard data.

6

Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

It’s funny, but in 2004, I had a 30 year old 27 footer and wasn’t
needing a new boat when I just happened to scan the Freedom listings
on Yachtworld. Lo and behold, there was a Hoyt 32 for sale at the
Boothbay Region Boatyard. Well, we just finished enjoying our 3rd
season with Anoush Koon and find that this will be our final
cruiser. To us, it’s everything we want in a boat: Simplicity,
stability, spaciousness and civilized cruising (hot and cold running
water). We’ve had up to 12 on afternoon cruises and I regularly
single hand when the wife is “busy”. I’m not fluent in the Mull
design, but from the specs it appears that the Hoyt has more interior
volume. Dave Bierig, the sailmaker who invented the camberspar jib
thinks the Hoyt is far better than the Mull. You can call him for
his opinion at 814-459-8001 which I think would be worth the cost of
a phone call.
Feel free to contact me off line if you have any specific
questions. If you sail the Maine coast, you shouldn’t be too far away.
Tom Wales
F32 #20 Anoush Koon
Pemaquid, ME
By the way, I sold my Dufour 27 to my cousin who loves the boat.




At 11:08 AM 11/24/2007, you wrote:

I shouldn’t even be looking at boats, but I am. I keep coming back to
Freedoms. I would love to be looking at 35’s but now is not the time.
I have been looking at 30-32’s and find both the Hoyt and Mull designs
very interesting. I would love to get feedback from Freedom owners on
the relative merits.

My wife and I sail on the coast of Maine. We currently have a 30 year
old 27 footer. While I enjoy working on boats, my current boat is in
dire need of a complete repaint (bottom, topsides, and deck), sails,
and soon enough a new diesel. Before I dump that kind of money in it,
I’d like to evaluate the purchase of a newer boat.

We mostly daysail with 1-5 people, and once and a while overnight with
just the two of us. My wife likes to ride on sailboats, I like to
sail. I like to go quickly, but I don’t have to be the fastest boat in
the bay. Being able to tack upwind without asking Milady to grind a
winch is a major attraction of the Freedom, along with the no shrouds
thing. Spinnaker sailing in very rare to never, although it would be
nice to be able to set a gennaker.

I envision that either Freedom would be a step up in cruising comfort
and ease of sailing. I really like the looks of the Hoyt interior, but
I like the external appearance of the Mull design a little better,
plus the Mulls are newer and therefore may be a little less prone to
major work.

I think if I had the Hoyt I would loose the gun mount since easy
relaxed sailing/anchoring is the goal.

Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts that might direct me in one way
or the other? All input is greatly appreciated!

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1152 - Release Date:
11/26/2007 10:50 AM



–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1152 - Release Date: 11/26/2007
10:50 AM

7

Posted by fairways31 (fairways31@…>)

u cant go wrong with this boat. of my 6 boats the 30 was the
best!!! did it all well and at a good price.



— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “dmairspotter”
<dpotter@…> wrote:

I shouldn’t even be looking at boats, but I am. I keep coming back
to
Freedoms. I would love to be looking at 35’s but now is not the
time.
I have been looking at 30-32’s and find both the Hoyt and Mull
designs
very interesting. I would love to get feedback from Freedom owners
on
the relative merits.

My wife and I sail on the coast of Maine. We currently have a 30
year
old 27 footer. While I enjoy working on boats, my current boat is in
dire need of a complete repaint (bottom, topsides, and deck), sails,
and soon enough a new diesel. Before I dump that kind of money in
it,
I’d like to evaluate the purchase of a newer boat.

We mostly daysail with 1-5 people, and once and a while overnight
with
just the two of us. My wife likes to ride on sailboats, I like to
sail. I like to go quickly, but I don’t have to be the fastest boat
in
the bay. Being able to tack upwind without asking Milady to grind a
winch is a major attraction of the Freedom, along with the no
shrouds
thing. Spinnaker sailing in very rare to never, although it would be
nice to be able to set a gennaker.

I envision that either Freedom would be a step up in cruising
comfort
and ease of sailing. I really like the looks of the Hoyt interior,
but
I like the external appearance of the Mull design a little better,
plus the Mulls are newer and therefore may be a little less prone to
major work.

I think if I had the Hoyt I would loose the gun mount since easy
relaxed sailing/anchoring is the goal.

Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts that might direct me in one
way
or the other? All input is greatly appreciated!

8

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Can definitely say that the Mull F30 is not too small to live on for a couple for 6 months/year…or longer. Did just that with my wife, sailing from Connecticut to Florida and back last year. The volume and interior design was more than adequate. And it is a really lovely space to live in. I have cruised on 36 to 40 foot boats that cannot compare to our lovely F30. You will need to use normal discipline in selecting only essential items to take with you…and then organize what you take…but that would be the same in a 36 foot boat. You really don’t need much stuff when you are cruising in warm places. So all that you will need for your cruise will fit handsomely. However there are human scale and flexibility issues to consider. Some folks are more robust, shall we say, than others…and less flexible. So I would suggest that you and your wife crawl around in your dream ships before making a choice. (We removed
the forward and aft doors to make moving about easier…and quieter…, and removed the plywood under the starboard bunk which opened up a lot of nice flat storage over the water tank for charts, etc.)One “improvement” we made was to extend the port main cabin bunk to make it more comfortable for two (from a Freedom “double”…39 in…to about 45 in.). We generally preferred sleeping there and it was very fast to make up and break down. Will explain how to do this later, if you like.Also, something to consider… the F30 is a light boat…well made, not flimsy…but light. So, she is a busy little bee in a sloppy anchorage. When the wind kicks up past 15 knots and the fetch is more than a few hundred yards you will know you are on a light boat. She will not ride like a 15,000 or 20,000 lb boat. As for sea work…the F30 is a strong, well engineer boat with a very simple sailing rig. But she carries a lot of sail up
high (and not so much ballast down low)…which is nice in 10 to 12 knots…but a bit over powering when more serious winds come up. We added a third reef on the main and used it often when the wind was over 20 knots and headed higher. The boat balanced well, and moved very well (within the range of an autopilot). Off the wind, the third reef worked well up to 30 plus knots. …making the boat feel very secure and controllable…and still moving at 6 to 7 knots. With more sail, you will see 8 knots plus…but will work a lot harder (definitely not autopilot country). Good shopping. Note that one of our number is selling his much perfected F30…and I think that he was just as serious as I was to get the details done right.Fargoex F30 #12guestallan <guestallan@…> wrote: — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “douglas.domurat” <douglas.domurat@…> wrote: >Hi Doug! I am almost in the same boat as you! ( No bun intended…lol!) I am also boatless and been away from sailing far too long. I have sailed mostly C&C 30’ to 39’ for almost 30 years and have sailed twice in the Carib, once for 17 mths. At 54 I am looking at a rig that’s easy to sail single-handed or a crew of 2. When my wife retires in 4 years we plan to spend 3 to 6mths liveaboard in the Caribbean and the rest at our cottage on Lake
Huron. We would keep the boat down south. I have been attracted to a un-stayed rig for obvious reasons.Therefore I have looked at the Freedom 30,32,33,36. I would like to know what the difference is between the Hoyt and Mull designs. There appears to be little info out there on Freedom boats, sadly. Perghaps some of the members here could pipe in!!! I have also looked at the Hunter Vision 32 & 36 (Heaven forbid!!!) as well as the Nonsuch 30 which is as well built boat in my opinion, but not attractive to my eyes. I am also on a tight budget. I believe for my purposes the Freedom 30 would be too small for a liveaboard for 2 adults for 3-6 mths a year. But since I have never had the opportunity to board one I might be wrong.Maybe others here could give their opinions. Doug have you checked out the Nonsuch line? They aren’t cheap, but a friend has one in Trinidad and he loves it. The 30’ goes
for 35-70k, The 33’ is out of my budget 95-125k. The 36’ is cheaper than a 33’ (go figure) 69-100k. The nonsuch line are heavier displacement hulls than the Freedoms. Which makes me somewhat worried about motion comfort on some of the Freedom boats. I am not into racing anymore. Just cruising,so motion comfort, storage and space down below are important for me. If I had the $$$$ I would love a Freedom 35 but they are out of my price range. Fair winds, Allan > Hi Folks, > > New to the forum but not new to Freedom. In the early 80’s I had a > wonderful little F28 cat ketch. Moved up in the mid 80’s to an F36 > and lived aboard that in Newport Beach until 1991. Moved to Thailand > and stopped sailing. Well the itch is back. The budget however is > around the Mull/Hoyt 30-32 range as I’ll need to ship it across the > world to Thailand. I’m a bit apprehensive about
that cumbersome > process. Any advice here is greatly appreciated! > > I thoroughly enjoyed the F36 Mull design and thus I’m inclined to go > that way again (Mull). But in the 80’s I had the pleasure of sailing > with Gary Hoyt aboard his first F32. Impressive but I worry a bit > about resale as Mull carries a pretty good name worldwide while Hoyt > is something of a maverick albeit a very successful, creative, and > gentleman one! His creations I generally admire. > > Any comments on the F36 cat ketch? I read on the net that its a bit > bow heavy and buries a bit in seas. The bow profile not really > designed for the heavy mast up front. But getting up to this size > screams past my budget. > > My requirements are not very extreme in any given area. Just want a > quality, single handed, free standing rig for weekend island
hopping > with my wife. No long passage makeing, no racing, no real extreme > weather, etc. Even looked at the Hunter Vision 32 (heaven forbid). > Got some nice features but doesn’t carry the same quality image as > TPI. > > I’m happy to be pursuing sailing again after a 16 year hiatus. > > I appreciate anyones comments, suggestions and opinions. > > Cheers, > > Doug > > — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Medium Al” > <hjulbyhavn@> wrote: > > > > I really wanted to like the Mull-F30 but found it to be very small > > when I went forward. At 5’11" and 210# I am not far out of the > normal > > range. It was a squeeze past the open folding door to the V birth > and > > there was no way to get in and out
w/o waking the first mate. The > aft > > cabin is also “cozy.” > > > > If it fits you, it would be a great boat, but for someone like me > > that wants to keep the next one into retirement it is too “sporty” > > for a body that does not unfold readily in the morning. > > > > The Mull is undoubtedly handles crisper but the Hoyt is quite > capable > > in the big stuff. The F32H is much roomier - due to freeboard and > > beam - nothing is free. > > > > The F32H and F33H are getting old. TP did not bother sealing the > > balsa core when mounting through-deck hardware. Neglected boats > will > > have core problem. > > > > I have been watching the market for over a year, getting ready to > > make a move myself and have seen a lot of deals “fall out of bed” > > after a
while (boats come back on the market), suggesting that the > > boats survey “pass rate” is about 50%. Of course I don’t know if > the > > deals break because of severe problems or resistance by seller to > > adjust the price. Some of us have a tendency to fall in love with > > these buggers. > > > > I have been told that recoring a deck could easily cost $10.000 - > > maybe someone else have some experience and hard data. > > >

9

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Any comments on the F36 cat ketch? I read on the net that its a bit
bow heavy and buries a bit in seas. The bow profile not really
designed for the heavy mast up front. But getting up to this size
screams past my budget.


That 36 came in a sloop and the cat ketch model. If it were a choice
between the two, I’d take the sloop for exactly what you stated - the
bow is too fine to handle a cat ketch rig. Go to Eric Sponberg’s
website and read about wobegone daze and the extensive (expensive)
modifcation to the bow section in order to return the boat to happy
sailing characteristics. The sloop won’t have those issues.

If you’re sold on the cat ketch rig (and let’s face it, it’s a great
rig), there are still some deals to be had in the 40, the 39 express,
and even the 39 pilothouse schooner.

Lance
Former 40 CK
Current 45 CC

10

Posted by ajlorman (ajl@…>)

Fargo:

“We added a third reef on the main”

How high up, or how far down, did you add the third reef?

Cheers,

Al