Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Being able to swing your boom that far out reminds me of a day about
10 years ago. It was September or October, and I was out in Fisher’s
Island sound in a Laser at the extreme limits of my wind range,
literally flying off wavetops on a plane. Amazing how quickly land
approacheth at that speed… and well… I was trying to avoid Ram
Island and didn’t want to round up, and kept sailing a little more
and more by the lee… and by the lee… and… well… the dunking I was
hoping to avoid came anyway, at the end of a bit of classic
Laser ‘deathroll’ - I imagine it’s rather harder to deathroll a '40
CK 
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michel Capel”
<mike_c_f35ck@y…> wrote:
Lance,
Interesting that you mention the laminar flow. I’m reading Garry
Hoyt’s booklet Ready About at this time and he eventually conceded
that full battens and an ordinairy boom is probably more effective -
because you can have moor sail aloft. To make sure that the
laminar
flow gets back to the surface of the sail, you indeed probably need
sleeves up to halfway to the leech. I can see that easily on my
two
ply sails; they flapper up to halfway to the leech.
But Lance, imagine that you could swing out your booms to 60
degrees
forward…
Cheerio
Mike
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:
I think the main reason that Bright Star was originally converted
was
to get a little more sail area aloft than a wishbone rig could
provide. She was originally in Jacksonville Florida, then on the
Chesapeake… My guess is that they were trying to maximize
light/fluky wind performance.
As for the comment about flimsy goosenecks, the ss collars that
make
up my goosenecks dont’ seem the least bit flimsy to me, and I can
run
dead down wind with the masts at 90 deg.
I don’t have a degree in fluid dynamics or anything, but I’m not
sure
I’m buying into a sleeved sail having a better edge into the
wind.
I
haven’t actually seen a sleeved sail on a Freedom, but one would
surmise that the sleeve further increases the effective diameter
of
the masts. Wind of any velocity blasting into those stumps would
probably not get laminar to the sail until well into the belly of
the
luff, regardless of rig. But like I said, I’m only guessing here.
Lance
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michel Capel”
<mike_c_f35ck@y…> wrote:
Guys,
Why is everybody removing their wishbones and buying a
conventional
rig as soon as they purchased a Freedom catketch?
Is it just plain (American?) conservatism, lack of confidence
in
Garry Hoyt’s design capabilities or fear to be laughed at on
the
dock?
See if we can have a heated discussion about the pro’s and cons
of
wishbones and ordinary booms. ;^P
mike
Posted by katorpus (katorpus@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:
hoping to avoid came anyway, at the end of a bit of classic
Laser ‘deathroll’ - I imagine it’s rather harder to deathroll
a '40
CK
I’ve done some deathrolls myself when sailing by the lee in my MX-
Ray. A decidedly abrupt inversion experience. WHAM!!! and you’re
over.
As was mentioned earlier, sailing by the lee puts some serious
stress on the mast track and cars…and if you inadvertently jibe
while sailing by the lee (not unheard of), and it happens fast
enough that you can’t get any sheet in during the jibe, you’re going
to put some serious SUDDEN stress on them when the boom gets as far
out on the other side as it was to begin with.
I use my mizzen staysail with my (rerigged) “normal” booms on my F40
CK…good for about a 1 knot advantage, but I don’t rig it when I’m
headed downwind. It’s a REACHING sail.
If you want more horsepower downwind, then get an asymmetrical
spinnaker and tack it to the bowsprit. Just don’t get carried away
with the windspeed, cuz you don’t have any running backs on the main
mast, and there’s nothing to counter the forward pull of the
spinnaker when the main is eased too much.
I’m thinking a traveller on a bridge track across the cabintop would
help keep the boom end down out of the sky. The alternative is
to “barber haul” the boom end to the toerail, but that’s gotta be a
LOT of stress there. Maybe a strategically placed back-plated
folding padeye on the deck edge? Any thoughts guys?
Posted by Michel Capel (mike_c_f35ck@…>)
I remember those laser days and the infamous death roll too. On a
freedom ketch you don’t roll, because you have a sail on either side
of the boat. In very light airs, it pays to have the mainsail
pointing the wrong way way, with the boom end towards the wind.
Amazing how fast you go when your clean edged leech becomes luff…
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:
Being able to swing your boom that far out reminds me of a day
about
10 years ago. It was September or October, and I was out in
Fisher’s
Island sound in a Laser at the extreme limits of my wind range,
literally flying off wavetops on a plane. Amazing how quickly land
approacheth at that speed… and well… I was trying to avoid Ram
Island and didn’t want to round up, and kept sailing a little more
and more by the lee… and by the lee… and… well… the dunking I
was
hoping to avoid came anyway, at the end of a bit of classic
Laser ‘deathroll’ - I imagine it’s rather harder to deathroll a '40
CK
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michel Capel”
<mike_c_f35ck@y…> wrote:
Lance,
Interesting that you mention the laminar flow. I’m reading Garry
Hoyt’s booklet Ready About at this time and he eventually
conceded
that full battens and an ordinairy boom is probably more
effective -
because you can have moor sail aloft. To make sure that the
laminar
flow gets back to the surface of the sail, you indeed probably
need
sleeves up to halfway to the leech. I can see that easily on my
two
ply sails; they flapper up to halfway to the leech.
But Lance, imagine that you could swing out your booms to 60
degrees
forward…
Cheerio
Mike
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:
I think the main reason that Bright Star was originally
converted
was
to get a little more sail area aloft than a wishbone rig could
provide. She was originally in Jacksonville Florida, then on
the
Chesapeake… My guess is that they were trying to maximize
light/fluky wind performance.
As for the comment about flimsy goosenecks, the ss collars that
make
up my goosenecks dont’ seem the least bit flimsy to me, and I
can
run
dead down wind with the masts at 90 deg.
I don’t have a degree in fluid dynamics or anything, but I’m
not
sure
I’m buying into a sleeved sail having a better edge into the
wind.
I
haven’t actually seen a sleeved sail on a Freedom, but one
would
surmise that the sleeve further increases the effective
diameter
of
the masts. Wind of any velocity blasting into those stumps
would
probably not get laminar to the sail until well into the belly
of
the
luff, regardless of rig. But like I said, I’m only guessing
here.
Lance
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michel Capel”
<mike_c_f35ck@y…> wrote:
Guys,
Why is everybody removing their wishbones and buying a
conventional
rig as soon as they purchased a Freedom catketch?
Is it just plain (American?) conservatism, lack of confidence
in
Garry Hoyt’s design capabilities or fear to be laughed at on
the
dock?
See if we can have a heated discussion about the pro’s and
cons
of
wishbones and ordinary booms. ;^P
mike
Posted by Michel Capel (mike_c_f35ck@…>)
I would say a heavy boomvang is best to keep the boom down, and a
preventer from two thirds out to the boom end to the cathead/bowsprit
is best to keep the boom forward. Perhaps a combination of the two
works also.
Do you mean that you hoist a asy spinaker to the main mast??? I have
an asy spi tacked to the cathead and hoisted up the mizzen (which has
a backstay). The sheet is led to an block on the end of the mizzen
boom. It’s a great sail for courses from 100 - 170 degrees off the
wind. If you sheet in the mizzen, you automatically sheet in and
flatten the spinaker. Dead downwind, the spi is covered too much by
the mizzen; I often let down the mizzen in these cases because the
spi is twice the area of the mizzen. I have a snuffer to douse the
spinaker, because you mostly let it up longer than is good for your
heart.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “katorpus” <katorpus@y…>
wrote:
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:
hoping to avoid came anyway, at the end of a bit of classic
Laser ‘deathroll’ - I imagine it’s rather harder to deathroll
a '40
CK
I’ve done some deathrolls myself when sailing by the lee in my MX-
Ray. A decidedly abrupt inversion experience. WHAM!!! and you’re
over.
As was mentioned earlier, sailing by the lee puts some serious
stress on the mast track and cars…and if you inadvertently jibe
while sailing by the lee (not unheard of), and it happens fast
enough that you can’t get any sheet in during the jibe, you’re
going
to put some serious SUDDEN stress on them when the boom gets as far
out on the other side as it was to begin with.
I use my mizzen staysail with my (rerigged) “normal” booms on my
F40
CK…good for about a 1 knot advantage, but I don’t rig it when I’m
headed downwind. It’s a REACHING sail.
If you want more horsepower downwind, then get an asymmetrical
spinnaker and tack it to the bowsprit. Just don’t get carried away
with the windspeed, cuz you don’t have any running backs on the
main
mast, and there’s nothing to counter the forward pull of the
spinnaker when the main is eased too much.
I’m thinking a traveller on a bridge track across the cabintop
would
help keep the boom end down out of the sky. The alternative is
to “barber haul” the boom end to the toerail, but that’s gotta be a
LOT of stress there. Maybe a strategically placed back-plated
folding padeye on the deck edge? Any thoughts guys?
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Bright Star has solid garhauer vangs. They’re pretty reasonably
priced and double as the topping lift. They’re mounted to the mast
with ss hoops around the base, with some chocking to help distribute
the force. The concern I’ve heard about vangs expressed here is that
they may put undue pressure on the mast if they’re not mounted
properly.
I’ve thought about a track for the main, too, with cleats, but not so
much to keep the boom down as to give me a backwinding option in
those dodgy tacking situations where you are racing momentum vs wind
fill. This past summer, coming out of Salem we decided to sail, which
gets a little narrow. I ended up being the backwinder, holding the
boom til it the main pushed the bow around, then stepping out of the
way to let it fill on the new tack. It worked very well - much faster
tacking times and back up to boat speed - but it was only blowing 10
and the seas were flat. I’d never try it that way in the choppy stuff
that becomes a CK’s worst tacking scenario.
Lance
Bright Star
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michel Capel”
<mike_c_f35ck@y…> wrote:
I would say a heavy boomvang is best to keep the boom down, and a
preventer from two thirds out to the boom end to the
cathead/bowsprit
is best to keep the boom forward. Perhaps a combination of the two
works also.
Do you mean that you hoist a asy spinaker to the main mast??? I
have
an asy spi tacked to the cathead and hoisted up the mizzen (which
has