Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Photo of hull layup at bow Our boat was in the first year of production for the Freedoms. She is probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID number. As you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly built, perhaps bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by going on and on about it Titanic style. View of plug removed to install thruster tube We were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug that was taken from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a picture of the tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow. When I first explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added, probably about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under the v-berth. The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward on the motor of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was in danger of breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving about. I’m correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-working electric motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life. What I found inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric motor I’ve ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything, lubed well and re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that solenoid set. That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung into a lot of little pieces that took off under work benches and such… argh! But I finally managed to brain it all out just hours before receiving an email from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of my life. It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was billed as a 50 kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I think the 55 would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow around rather neatly. So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes the weak link, if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our case it’s been glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy roven cloth on the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it worries me and although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where it belongs and also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those solenoids out to the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire forward area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to change is to drain the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in it’s own right. George
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with your
boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting the right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast or
(just) aft of it?
In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker bulkhead. If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly under the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the thuster. The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will be a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.
michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow> Photo of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug that was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a picture of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow. When I first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward on the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving about. I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life. What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything, lubed well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung into a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and such… argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I think the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes the weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our case it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy roven cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to change is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in it’s own
right.George
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Michel,
We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind
conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of the main
mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an oppinion about
where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you could glean
some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current thrusters
available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus is the only
thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I have not had
any experience with Lewmar ones.
George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with your
boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting the right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast or
(just) aft of it?In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker bulkhead. If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly under the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the thuster. The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will be a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow> Photo of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug that was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a picture of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow. When I first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward on the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving about. I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life. What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything, lubed well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung into a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and such… argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I think the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes the weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our case it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy roven cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to change is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in it’s own
right.George
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
The bow sections of the F40 and F44 catketches are very similar in
design and construction, as far as I have been able to see. Your
thruster location would be in the forward part of my water tank,
under the double berth.
And about the non-draining anchor locker: Freedom have always had
odd ideas about getting rid of water. The catketches don’t have
closed off anchor boxes with drainage outside and the deck water run-
offs go through the hull in stead of over the edge. I always learned
that an important rule in yacht design is to keep the water that is
outside of the boat, outside of the boat.
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Michel,
We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind
conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of the main
mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an oppinion
about
where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you could glean
some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current thrusters
available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus is the
only
thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I have not had
any experience with Lewmar ones.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with
your
boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting the
right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast or
(just) aft of it?In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker bulkhead.
If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly under
the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the thuster.
The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will be
a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow> Photo
of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the
Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by
going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug that
was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a picture
of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow. When I
first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under
the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward on
the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving about.
I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life.
What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric
motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything, lubed
well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that
solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung into
a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and such…
argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before
receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was
billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I think
the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow
around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes the
weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our case
it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy roven
cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it
worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those
solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire
forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to change
is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in it’s
own
right.George
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Agreed on all points Michel,Here are links to a couple more photos. Here is the top down view of the thruster. As you can see, clean up, paint and wire ties are forthcoming. You can also see the brace I’ve fiberglassed in to keep the water tank from moving forward. This is much more simple and solid than the monkey business that was there before. I have room for a bulkhead between the tank brace and the thruster and the more I think about it the more I like the idea of a collision bulkhead in that location. Glassing a drain pan into the chainlocker with an overboard discharge will be a snap. You can also see in the photo that I’ve replaced the cross tip head screws that held the thruster motor together with stainless thread rod and nuts/washers. I’d not like the same problems with disassembly again if I ever have to. Here is looking under the water tank at the tube where it is installed on the hull. I will try and get you measurements fore/aft and below waterline next time in in the dink alongside. George— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote:>> The bow sections of the F40 and F44 catketches are very similar in > design and construction, as far as I have been able to see. Your > thruster location would be in the forward part of my water tank, > under the double berth. > > And about the non-draining anchor locker: Freedom have always had > odd ideas about getting rid of water. The catketches don’t have > closed off anchor boxes with drainage outside and the deck water run-> offs go through the hull in stead of over the edge. I always learned > that an important rule in yacht design is to keep the water that is > outside of the boat, outside of the boat.> > — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman” > thatboatguy2@ wrote:> >> > > > Michel,> > > > We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind> > conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of the main> > mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an oppinion > about> > where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you could glean> > some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current thrusters> > available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus is the > only> > thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I have not had> > any experience with Lewmar ones. > > > > George> > — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”> > <michel.capel@> wrote:> > >> > > George,> > > > > > Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with > your > > > boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting the > right > > > size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast or > > > (just) aft of it? > > > > > > In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire forward > > > double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker bulkhead. > If > > > it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly under > the > > > mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank and > > > remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the thuster. > The > > > plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will be > a > > > messy job I’m not looking forward to.> > > > > > michel> > > > > > — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman” > > > <thatboatguy2@> wrote:> > > >> > > > <Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow> Photo > of > > > hull> > > > layup at bow > > > http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpg> > > > > > > > Our boat was in the first year of production for the > Freedoms. > > > She is> > > > probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID > > > number. As> > > > you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly built, > > > perhaps> > > > bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by > going > > > on and> > > > on about it Titanic style.> > > > > > > > View of plug removed to install thruster tube> > > > http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > We were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug that > was > > > taken> > > > from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a picture > of > > > the> > > > tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow. When I > first> > > > explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added, > > > probably> > > > about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under > the v-> > > berth.> > > > The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward on > the > > > motor> > > > of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was in > > > danger of> > > > breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving about. > I’m> > > > correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-working > > > electric> > > > motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life. > What I > > > found> > > > inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric > motor > > > I’ve> > > > ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything, lubed > well > > > and> > > > re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that > solenoid > > > set. > > > > That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung into > a > > > lot of> > > > little pieces that took off under work benches and such… > argh! > > > But I> > > > finally managed to brain it all out just hours before > receiving an > > > email> > > > from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of my > > > life. > > > > It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was > billed > > > as a 50> > > > kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I think > the > > > 55> > > > would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow > around > > > rather> > > > neatly.> > > > > > > > So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes the > weak > > > link,> > > > if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our case > it’s > > > been> > > > glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy roven > cloth > > > on> > > > the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it > worries > > > me and> > > > although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where it > > > belongs and> > > > also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those > solenoids > > > out to> > > > the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire > forward> > > > area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to change > is to > > > drain> > > > the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in it’s > own> > > > right.> > > > > > > > George> > > >> > >> >>
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
George,
Many thanks for the photos. It never occurred to me that there could
be empty space below the watertank. I can’t access the tank yet, so
I have no idea how far the bottom of my tank is from the keel.
Perhaps there is room enough to mount the tube and motor entirely
under the tank. The motor would then be mounted horizontally. Access
for maintenance would be a nightmare (removal of the tank), but the
new generation Side-Power bowthrusters are sold as maintenance free.
I start to wonder how they got this huge 175 gallon tank inside; I
doubt if it fits through the deck- or companionway hatch.
I looked at a couple of installation videos of bowprops, and it all
looks soooow easy with these shallow hulls and open lockers with
wide top hatches on the powerboats they use for these videos.
Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Agreed on all points Michel,
Here are links to a couple more photos.
Here is the top down view of the thruster.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5117/p1010008bq2.jpg As you
can
see, clean up, paint and wire ties are forthcoming. You can also
see
the brace I’ve fiberglassed in to keep the water tank from moving
forward. This is much more simple and solid than the monkey
business
that was there before. I have room for a bulkhead between the tank
brace and the thruster and the more I think about it the more I
like the
idea of a collision bulkhead in that location. Glassing a drain
pan
into the chainlocker with an overboard discharge will be a snap.
You
can also see in the photo that I’ve replaced the cross tip head
screws
that held the thruster motor together with stainless thread rod and
nuts/washers. I’d not like the same problems with disassembly
again if
I ever have to.Here is looking under the water tank
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4027/p1010012qe6.jpg at the
tube
where it is installed on the hull. I will try and get you
measurements
fore/aft and below waterline next time in in the dink alongside.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:The bow sections of the F40 and F44 catketches are very similar
in
design and construction, as far as I have been able to see. Your
thruster location would be in the forward part of my water tank,
under the double berth.And about the non-draining anchor locker: Freedom have always had
odd ideas about getting rid of water. The catketches don’t have
closed off anchor boxes with drainage outside and the deck water
run-
offs go through the hull in stead of over the edge. I always
learned
that an important rule in yacht design is to keep the water that
is
outside of the boat, outside of the boat.— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
thatboatguy2@ wrote:Michel,
We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind
conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of the
main
mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an oppinion
about
where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you could
glean
some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current
thrusters
available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus is
the
only
thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I have
not had
any experience with Lewmar ones.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with
your
boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting
the
right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast
or
(just) aft of it?In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire
forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker
bulkhead.
If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly
under
the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank
and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the
thuster.
The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will
be
a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow>
Photo
of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the
Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly
built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by
going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug
that
was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a
picture
of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow.
When I
first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under
the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward
on
the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was
in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving
about.
I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-
working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life.
What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric
motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything,
lubed
well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that
solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung
into
a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and such…
argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before
receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of
my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was
billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I
think
the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow
around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes
the
weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our
case
it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy
roven
cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it
worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where
it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those
solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire
forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to
change
is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in
it’s
own
right.George
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Oh I know Michel,
Our tank in that position is a def
I know what you mean about the install Michel,
It’s going to be a real drag. Tested the thruster yesterday in pretty
stiff side on breeze, about 15 knots, and it worked perfectly. We
actually got to sail Marquesa for the first time yesterday! Very
brief and humbling experience that I may share when I’m over it a
little more… heh heh But what the heck why not now. When my
brother in law at the helm had a brief dyslexic moment and put the
helm down after I asked him to round up, we went broad side onto the
wind with both sails sheeted in tight. The masts are good! However I
must have had some water in one of the shallow bilges in the saloon.
When we heeled that hard (rail almost in water) that bilge emptied
onto the sole and ran back making it’s way into the engine room where
it went into the engine pan by some freak as we righted. The pan
flooded and that’s where I’ve installed the float switch for the high
water alarm (save the starter style). So when that electronic siren
went off I thought we were sinking and almost had to call for my brown
breeches. heh heh
George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
George,
Many thanks for the photos. It never occurred to me that there could
be empty space below the watertank. I can’t access the tank yet, so
I have no idea how far the bottom of my tank is from the keel.
Perhaps there is room enough to mount the tube and motor entirely
under the tank. The motor would then be mounted horizontally. Access
for maintenance would be a nightmare (removal of the tank), but the
new generation Side-Power bowthrusters are sold as maintenance free.I start to wonder how they got this huge 175 gallon tank inside; I
doubt if it fits through the deck- or companionway hatch.I looked at a couple of installation videos of bowprops, and it all
looks soooow easy with these shallow hulls and open lockers with
wide top hatches on the powerboats they use for these videos.Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:Agreed on all points Michel,
Here are links to a couple more photos.
Here is the top down view of the thruster.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5117/p1010008bq2.jpg As you
can
see, clean up, paint and wire ties are forthcoming. You can also
see
the brace I’ve fiberglassed in to keep the water tank from moving
forward. This is much more simple and solid than the monkey
business
that was there before. I have room for a bulkhead between the tank
brace and the thruster and the more I think about it the more I
like the
idea of a collision bulkhead in that location. Glassing a drain
pan
into the chainlocker with an overboard discharge will be a snap.
You
can also see in the photo that I’ve replaced the cross tip head
screws
that held the thruster motor together with stainless thread rod and
nuts/washers. I’d not like the same problems with disassembly
again if
I ever have to.Here is looking under the water tank
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4027/p1010012qe6.jpg at the
tube
where it is installed on the hull. I will try and get you
measurements
fore/aft and below waterline next time in in the dink alongside.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:The bow sections of the F40 and F44 catketches are very similar
in
design and construction, as far as I have been able to see. Your
thruster location would be in the forward part of my water tank,
under the double berth.And about the non-draining anchor locker: Freedom have always had
odd ideas about getting rid of water. The catketches don’t have
closed off anchor boxes with drainage outside and the deck water
run-
offs go through the hull in stead of over the edge. I always
learned
that an important rule in yacht design is to keep the water that
is
outside of the boat, outside of the boat.— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
thatboatguy2@ wrote:Michel,
We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind
conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of the
main
mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an oppinion
about
where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you could
glean
some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current
thrusters
available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus is
the
only
thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I have
not had
any experience with Lewmar ones.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well with
your
boat is very valuable information that help me in selcting
the
right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main mast
or
(just) aft of it?In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire
forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker
bulkhead.
If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster directly
under
the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons) tank
and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the
thuster.
The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that will
be
a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%20bow>
Photo
of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the
Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly
built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the fates by
going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this plug
that
was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a
picture
of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow.
When I
first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank under
the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing forward
on
the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and was
in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving
about.
I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-
working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to life.
What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust electric
motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned everything,
lubed
well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that
solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it sprung
into
a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and such…
argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before
receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The story of
my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours was
billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I
think
the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our bow
around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself becomes
the
weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in our
case
it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy
roven
cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still, it
worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back where
it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those
solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that entire
forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to
change
is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea in
it’s
own
right.George
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Congrats on getting Marquesa ready to sail. You’ll love the catketch
concept once you get some experience.
Perhaps it’s an idea to put an on/off switch in this alarm system? I
have a loud buzzer that sounds when there is an alarm condition
(e.g. shallow water, large wind shift, too large XTE, etc.) in my
navigation equipment. Very nice for the single handed sailor lying
inside in his bunk unable to hear the nav alarms in the cockpit…
but I put an on/off switch in it to prevent panick with the crew
(and myself).
Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Oh I know Michel,
Our tank in that position is a def
I know what you mean about the install Michel,It’s going to be a real drag. Tested the thruster yesterday in
pretty
stiff side on breeze, about 15 knots, and it worked perfectly. We
actually got to sail Marquesa for the first time yesterday! Very
brief and humbling experience that I may share when I’m over it a
little more… heh heh But what the heck why not now. When my
brother in law at the helm had a brief dyslexic moment and put the
helm down after I asked him to round up, we went broad side onto
the
wind with both sails sheeted in tight. The masts are good!
However I
must have had some water in one of the shallow bilges in the
saloon.
When we heeled that hard (rail almost in water) that bilge emptied
onto the sole and ran back making it’s way into the engine room
where
it went into the engine pan by some freak as we righted. The pan
flooded and that’s where I’ve installed the float switch for the
high
water alarm (save the starter style). So when that electronic
siren
went off I thought we were sinking and almost had to call for my
brown
breeches. heh hehGeorge
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:George,
Many thanks for the photos. It never occurred to me that there
could
be empty space below the watertank. I can’t access the tank yet,
so
I have no idea how far the bottom of my tank is from the keel.
Perhaps there is room enough to mount the tube and motor
entirely
under the tank. The motor would then be mounted horizontally.
Access
for maintenance would be a nightmare (removal of the tank), but
the
new generation Side-Power bowthrusters are sold as maintenance
free.I start to wonder how they got this huge 175 gallon tank inside;
I
doubt if it fits through the deck- or companionway hatch.I looked at a couple of installation videos of bowprops, and it
all
looks soooow easy with these shallow hulls and open lockers with
wide top hatches on the powerboats they use for these videos.Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:Agreed on all points Michel,
Here are links to a couple more photos.
Here is the top down view of the thruster.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5117/p1010008bq2.jpg As
you
can
see, clean up, paint and wire ties are forthcoming. You can
also
see
the brace I’ve fiberglassed in to keep the water tank from
moving
forward. This is much more simple and solid than the monkey
business
that was there before. I have room for a bulkhead between the
tank
brace and the thruster and the more I think about it the more
I
like the
idea of a collision bulkhead in that location. Glassing a
drain
pan
into the chainlocker with an overboard discharge will be a
snap.
You
can also see in the photo that I’ve replaced the cross tip
head
screws
that held the thruster motor together with stainless thread
rod and
nuts/washers. I’d not like the same problems with disassembly
again if
I ever have to.Here is looking under the water tank
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4027/p1010012qe6.jpg at
the
tube
where it is installed on the hull. I will try and get you
measurements
fore/aft and below waterline next time in in the dink
alongside.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:The bow sections of the F40 and F44 catketches are very
similar
in
design and construction, as far as I have been able to see.
Your
thruster location would be in the forward part of my water
tank,
under the double berth.And about the non-draining anchor locker: Freedom have
always had
odd ideas about getting rid of water. The catketches don’t
have
closed off anchor boxes with drainage outside and the deck
water
run-
offs go through the hull in stead of over the edge. I always
learned
that an important rule in yacht design is to keep the water
that
is
outside of the boat, outside of the boat.— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
thatboatguy2@ wrote:Michel,
We have yet to try that thruster in any kind of strong wind
conditions… just a caveat. Our thruster is just aft of
the
main
mast. I’m not familiar with the 45 enough to offer an
oppinion
about
where your thruster should go. It’s possible that you
could
glean
some information from Vetus. The manuals for the current
thrusters
available are available for download PDF versions. Vetus
is
the
only
thruster I’ve seen inside of but I like what I see. I
have
not had
any experience with Lewmar ones.George
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:George,
Thanks. Knowing that a Vetus 50 kgforce unit works well
with
your
boat is very valuable information that help me in
selcting
the
right
size unit. Is your tube mounted directly below the main
mast
or
(just) aft of it?In the F44 there is a water tank that fills the entire
forward
double berth. It extends up to the mast/anchor locker
bulkhead.
If
it will prove impossible to place the bowthruster
directly
under
the
mast, I will have to take out this huge (150 gallons)
tank
and
remove the forward 2’ of it to create a space for the
thuster.
The
plywood sheet on top of the tank is glassed in, so that
will
be
a
messy job I’m not looking forward to.michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George
Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:<Photo%20of%20the%20hull%20layup%20schedule%20at%
20bow>
Photo
of
hull
layup at bow
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6712/p1010006jz7.jpgOur boat was in the first year of production for the
Freedoms.
She is
probably the last of the 1976 boats with a December
Hull ID
number. As
you can see from the photo the hull is quite strongly
built,
perhaps
bullet proof! Of course, I’m not one to tempt the
fates by
going
on and
on about it Titanic style.View of plug removed to install thruster tube
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2031/p1010007uv1.jpgWe were fortunate that the previous owner saved this
plug
that
was
taken
from the bow when the tube was installed. I’ll get a
picture
of
the
tube and thruster when I’m down on the boat tomorrow.
When I
first
explored the boat I found that the thruster had been
added,
probably
about 10 years ago, and also an additional water tank
under
the v-
berth.
The tank had fallen down and came to rest pushing
forward
on
the
motor
of the thruster electric box on the electric motor and
was
in
danger of
breaking the tube in a seaway if things got to moving
about.
I’m
correcting all that of course. When I removed the non-
working
electric
motor I didn’t have hi hopes of bringing it back to
life.
What I
found
inside that rusty case was perhaps the most robust
electric
motor
I’ve
ever seen! I took it all apart and cleaned
everything,
lubed
well
and
re-assembled and it worked great. Next I tackled that
solenoid
set.
That was a bit trickier as when I took it apart it
sprung
into
a
lot of
little pieces that took off under work benches and
such…
argh!
But I
finally managed to brain it all out just hours before
receiving an
from Vetus with the exploded view… heh heh The
story of
my
life.
It’s been reinstalled and works very very well. Ours
was
billed
as a 50
kilo unit but I think the closest one now is a 55. I
think
the
55
would work as fine on the Freedom 45 as it kicks our
bow
around
rather
neatly.So, with that kind of hull layup, the tube itself
becomes
the
weak
link,
if they didn’t do a good job of glassing it in. in
our
case
it’s
been
glassed in by a very competent glass person with heavy
roven
cloth
on
the inside and a great finish on the outside. Still,
it
worries
me and
although I’ve taken measures to keep that tank back
where
it
belongs and
also rotated the electric motor 90 degrees to put those
solenoids
out to
the side, I am still thinking to bulkhead off that
entire
forward
area… just in case. Only thing I’ll really need to
change
is to
drain
the chain locker overboard. That might be a good idea
in
it’s
own
right.George