Posted by Manrique Feoli (manrique.feoli@…>)
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide to
go forth with it.
Posted by Jay Glen (britann9225@…>)
Manrique, My 1981 Freedom 40 CK has custom aluminum wishbones with single sail attached to a track on the mast. No wrap-around. I love this rig for its ease of handling when dropping sail. It all falls into the “basket” slung between the wishbones. You don’t have to leave the cockpit to flake the sails, as they are self-flaking. You can wait until you are at the dock or at anchor to properly lash them. The drawback is the astetics. Most sailors still seem to prefer a standard type boom, and therefore, it may be easier to resell if you have standard booms. Also, the wishbones are self-vanging. When you tighten the choker, the wishbone moves aft and downward, due to the slope of the wishbone. Just my two cents. JayManrique Feoli <manrique.feoli@…> wrote: Hey,as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs newsails, at least the mizzen.My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently doeswraparround sails.One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise ofupgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He saysit is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some ofyou have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can youshare your thoughts again so I
can make my mind up.I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide togo forth with it.
Don’t be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Manrique,
Please keep your wishbones, put a Strongtrack on your masts and have
a suit of full roached single ply, fully battened sails made. Invest
in ails, save on booms, heavy vangs and bulky gooseneck hardware.
Take a look at www.wyliecat.com and www.nonsuch.org to see how you
rig your wishbones in a permanent upright position. You’ll love it.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jay Glen <britann9225@…>
wrote:
Manrique,
My 1981 Freedom 40 CK has custom aluminum wishbones with single
sail attached to a track on the mast. No wrap-around. I love this rig
for its ease of handling when dropping sail. It all falls into
the “basket” slung between the wishbones. You don’t have to leave the
cockpit to flake the sails, as they are self-flaking. You can wait
until you are at the dock or at anchor to properly lash them. The
drawback is the astetics. Most sailors still seem to prefer a
standard type boom, and therefore, it may be easier to resell if you
have standard booms. Also, the wishbones are self-vanging. When you
tighten the choker, the wishbone moves aft and downward, due to the
slope of the wishbone.
Just my two cents.
Jay
Manrique Feoli <manrique.feoli@…> wrote:
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide to
go forth with it.
Don’t be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends.
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
Sounds very similar to that on the Nonsuch boats. The latest Nonsuchs
have carbon fiber masts and wishbone booms; there’s one in my
subdivision’s harbor. Herm
At 02:39 PM 7/3/2007, you wrote:
Manrique,
My 1981 Freedom 40 CK has custom aluminum wishbones with single sail
attached to a track on the mast. No wrap-around. I love this rig for
its ease of handling when dropping sail. It all falls into the
“basket” slung between the wishbones. You don’t have to leave the
cockpit to flake the sails, as they are self-flaking. You can wait
until you are at the dock or at anchor to properly lash them. The
drawback is the astetics. Most sailors still seem to prefer a
standard type boom, and therefore, it may be easier to resell if you
have standard booms. Also, the wishbones are self-vanging. When you
tighten the choker, the wishbone moves aft and downward, due to the
slope of the wishbone.
Just my two cents.
Jay
Manrique Feoli <manrique.feoli@…> wrote:
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide to
go forth with it.
Don’t be flakey.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>Get
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>always
stay connected to friends.
Posted by Manrique Feoli (manrique.feoli@…>)
thanks comment Mike, definately a good advise.
This sounds like a far better solution than setting booms, at least
more viable to me. besides goose neck, boom vang, and won’t need
lazy jacks either.
I went into the wyliecat.com site and this all looks great (I should
have one of those when grown up), but back to reality, just couldn’t
find a larger picture to figure out what I really have to do to
proceed with the conversion. I didn’t quite understand the strongback
part…
if you have some more info you could share, I’ll appreciate it,
some other of my thoughts I’d like to share:
doesn’t setting a sailtrak makes the sail to allways come from the
back of the mast, therefore providing some unefficiencies when on the
reach? just a thought… (I suppose that’s why some have spoken
about a rotating mast…)
wouldn’t it be viable to have the sail attached with large rings
arround the mast (as in older latin styled sail boats) instead of sail
track? has anyone thought of this idea, would it be any efficient at
all?
this way the sail may go to the side, or even forward…
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
Manrique,
Please keep your wishbones, put a Strongtrack on your masts and have
a suit of full roached single ply, fully battened sails made. Invest
in ails, save on booms, heavy vangs and bulky gooseneck hardware.
Take a look at www.wyliecat.com and www.nonsuch.org to see how you
rig your wishbones in a permanent upright position. You’ll love it.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jay Glen <britann9225@>
wrote:
Manrique,
My 1981 Freedom 40 CK has custom aluminum wishbones with single
sail attached to a track on the mast. No wrap-around. I love this rig
for its ease of handling when dropping sail. It all falls into
the “basket” slung between the wishbones. You don’t have to leave the
cockpit to flake the sails, as they are self-flaking. You can wait
until you are at the dock or at anchor to properly lash them. The
drawback is the astetics. Most sailors still seem to prefer a
standard type boom, and therefore, it may be easier to resell if you
have standard booms. Also, the wishbones are self-vanging. When you
tighten the choker, the wishbone moves aft and downward, due to the
slope of the wishbone.
Just my two cents.
Jay
Manrique Feoli <manrique.feoli@> wrote:
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide to
go forth with it.
Don’t be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends.
Posted by Peter Schaefer (pcschaefer@…>)
Manrique,
there are several other solutions to your problem without needing a sail
track. A sail track always imposes torsional forces onto the mast, a
load the original wraparound rig wasn’t designed for. And you are right,
a sail track doesn’t let the sail swing as far forward of the mast as
you would probably like to do with this kind of rig.
Mast rings (mast hoops) -as you supposed- are one solution but they
would mean lots of chafe and wear on the carbon spar. I think a lacing
line wound spirally up the mast through grommets at the luff of the sail
will be a better solution. Look at Gio Schoutens Samiel rig in the
pictures or files part of the board, a very clever design that does away
with the sail track and still lets your sails have full battens and lots
of roach.
An other solution would be a sail pocket like in James Wharrams Tiki
rig. You could keep the wraparound sail with its aerodynamically clean
entrance (two ply sail for about 20-30% from the luff, the rest is
single ply) and there are several sailmakers who can supply Tiki-Sails.
The drawback is that it would be difficult to include full battens with
this type of sail which means sacrificing valuable sail area.
And then there is the swing-wing rig, buts thats another story…
Greetings,
Peter
Posted by Norm Friberg (nfriberg@…>)
Manrique,
I have a 29 year old Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch that originally had wraparound sails. The first owner changed to conventional sails with the very simple solution of rope “bridles”. These lines, each about 6 feet long, go from one grommet in the luff, around the mast, to the next grommet. Each end is held by a stopper knot (figure of 8 knot). There are two bridles for each two grommets, running in opposite directions around the mast, in other words, a double helix. This system holds the luff close to the mast but allows rotation of the sail depending on wind direction. In order to be able to raise the leading end of the wishbones, I just leave out the lower bridles for the bottom 12 feet or so of the sail… With enough tension in the halyard, this has not been a problem. The bridles are normal 5/16 inch yacht braid. The length of each batten is critical, and may require trial and error. I was lucky in that the first owner documented the lengths- but be sure to add 5-6 inches for each stopper knot.
Whatever solution you go with, good luck and happy sailing.
Norm Friberg
SV Freyja
----- Original Message -----
From: Manrique Feoli
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Changing from wraparround sails+ wishbones to booms + sailtrack
Hey,as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs newsails, at least the mizzen.My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently doeswraparround sails.One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise ofupgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He saysit is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some ofyou have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can youshare your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide togo forth with it.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Manrique,
Strongtrack is a simple cheap plastic masttrack often seen on
Freedoms. I have it on the mizzen. Look at :
http://www.tidesmarine.com/sail-track.html
I will send you some photo’s and documents that I used for the
conversion to a Wylie-lookalike rig.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Manrique Feoli”
<manrique.feoli@…> wrote:
thanks comment Mike, definately a good advise.
This sounds like a far better solution than setting booms, at
least
more viable to me. besides goose neck, boom vang, and won’t need
lazy jacks either.
I went into the wyliecat.com site and this all looks great (I
should
have one of those when grown up), but back to reality, just
couldn’t
find a larger picture to figure out what I really have to do to
proceed with the conversion. I didn’t quite understand the
strongback
part…
if you have some more info you could share, I’ll appreciate it,
some other of my thoughts I’d like to share:
doesn’t setting a sailtrak makes the sail to allways come from the
back of the mast, therefore providing some unefficiencies when on
the
reach? just a thought… (I suppose that’s why some have spoken
about a rotating mast…)
wouldn’t it be viable to have the sail attached with large rings
arround the mast (as in older latin styled sail boats) instead of
sail
track? has anyone thought of this idea, would it be any
efficient at
all?
this way the sail may go to the side, or even forward…
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:
Manrique,
Please keep your wishbones, put a Strongtrack on your masts and
have
a suit of full roached single ply, fully battened sails made.
Invest
in ails, save on booms, heavy vangs and bulky gooseneck
hardware.
Take a look at www.wyliecat.com and www.nonsuch.org to see how
you
rig your wishbones in a permanent upright position. You’ll love
it.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jay Glen
<britann9225@>
wrote:
Manrique,
My 1981 Freedom 40 CK has custom aluminum wishbones with
single
sail attached to a track on the mast. No wrap-around. I love
this rig
for its ease of handling when dropping sail. It all falls into
the “basket” slung between the wishbones. You don’t have to
leave the
cockpit to flake the sails, as they are self-flaking. You can
wait
until you are at the dock or at anchor to properly lash them.
The
drawback is the astetics. Most sailors still seem to prefer a
standard type boom, and therefore, it may be easier to resell if
you
have standard booms. Also, the wishbones are self-vanging. When
you
tighten the choker, the wishbone moves aft and downward, due to
the
slope of the wishbone.
Just my two cents.
Jay
Manrique Feoli <manrique.feoli@> wrote:
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently
does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He
says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the
boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know
some of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I
decide to
go forth with it.
Don’t be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends.
Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Manrique Feoli”
<manrique.feoli@…> wrote:
Hey,
as you probably saw o my previous mail, my freedom 33 needs new
sails, at least the mizzen.
My problem is I can’t find a single sailmaker who currently does
wraparround sails.
One sail maker kindly answered my requests, with an advise of
upgrading the rigging style to a single ply sail and booms. He says
it is much better to sail with, and a good improvement to the boat.
I presume sails would be lighter to take up and down.
From a thread we had about 3 years ago on this forum, I know some
of
you have already done it, some are happy some aren’t. Can you
share your thoughts again so I can make my mind up.
I also need a guide to follow the upgrade procedure, if I decide to
go forth with it.
hi have you considered importing a sail from the uk , i work for
sanders sails in lymington uk and we make them and i own the boat
with the luff pocket in pictures, freedom 35 kusi which by the way
works just fine
be aware that other uk lofts including dolphin sails make freedom
sails they made the ones pictured,
and also that you will have to raise and lower sails head to wind
with a mast track because you will get too much friction on the
slides if you are anything other than head to wind
have you considered the halfway house of only fitting the track and
keeping the whishbones and making them permanantly raised like the
wylie cat boats because you can then rig up lazyjack lines from the
whishbones down under the foot of the sail which looks realy
conveniant it will at least save the cost and time fitting a boom and
get around the goosneck articulation problem for putting the boom
forward of the beam when downwind
all the best phil downey