Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Hi Group,Sorry I have not beenable to participate as much lately. We have been busy gettingour house ready to rent and now that most of my honey do’s are doneI’m back on to boat projects. Perhaps one of the biggestundertakings on S/V Marquesa (our F-40 CK CC) is the construction andinstallation of a watermaker/DC generator/refrigeration unit. The basic power plant is a Kubota 6HP diesel motor. The formatof our group is not really conducive to detailed discussion withembedded photos so I’ve done that over at the Latitudesand Attitudes Forum. Just click the link to read about itthere. I’m getting to the interesting part for Freedom ownersas I’m about to start diving into our engine room to make themodifications and upgrades down there to accommodate the unit. The name “Frankemaker” got applied to the MKI unit that isnow installed and operating very well on a cruising boat on the Westcoast. You can read about that at S/VThird Day web site. The MKI did not have the refrigerationoption. I’ll be installing the unit in such a way that I canuse the Kubota, the main engine, or maybe an electric motor topower the refer pump. Luckily for us Marquesa had a defunctcold plate refrigerator freezer so I’m able to salvage the coldplates and some other components. I am using new expansionvalves and compressor to accommodate the 134a refrigerant. Best to ask questions and make comments on the L&A forumso all can share. It’s an open effort with complete informationsharing and no notion to profit from it. ThanksGeorge
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Also a short video of the Frankenmaker MK I installation. Here George
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
George.
Wow, I am duly impressed with your home built Utility Dept. Great Job!
I can tell you have put a lot of thought and trial and error into your design.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I know nothing of the layout of your engine compartment. In reading your comments, it appears that you are planning to mount your power unit side by side with the main engine. I suppose that opens a whole new bucket of worms for you.
I had a thought that may or may not be worth exploring, but I will throw it out there as Food for thought.
You know how the old manufacturing shops used to use a water wheel attached to a main shaft that ran the length of the shop with belt drive power takeoffs? I wonder if you could employ that idea so you could mount the power unit behind or in front of the main engine instead of beside it?
Just an errant thought:)
Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Wed, 10/8/08, George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 6:17 AM
Hi Group,Sorry I have not beenable to participate as much lately. We have been busy gettingour house ready to rent and now that most of my honey do’s are doneI’m back on to boat projects. Perhaps one of the biggestundertakings on S/V Marquesa (our F-40 CK CC) is the construction andinstallation of a watermaker/DC generator/refrigera tion unit. The basic power plant is a Kubota 6HP diesel motor. The formatof our group is not really conducive to detailed discussion withembedded photos so I’ve done that over at the Latitudesand Attitudes Forum. Just click the link to read about itthere. I’m getting to the interesting part for Freedom ownersas I’m about to start diving into our engine room to make themodifications and upgrades down there to accommodate the unit. The
name “Frankemaker” got applied to the MKI unit that isnow installed and operating very well on a cruising boat on the Westcoast. You can read about that at S/VThird Day web site. The MKI did not have the refrigerationoption . I’ll be installing the unit in such a way that I canuse the Kubota, the main engine, or maybe an electric motor topower the refer pump. Luckily for us Marquesa had a defunctcold plate refrigerator freezer so I’m able to salvage the coldplates and some other components. I am using new expansionvalves and compressor to accommodate the 134a refrigerant. Best to ask questions and make comments on the L&A forumso all can share. It’s an open effort with complete informationsharing and no notion to profit from it.
Thanks
George
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Hi Skip,
I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m not
willing to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group of
systems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, there
are good instructions on the web and even circuit board layouts
available to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +
electronics… um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to monitor
what’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour a
day and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in a
while at the gauges.
There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of our
Perkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when we
purchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over to
the starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much right
now. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platform
where the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for the
refrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming out
and new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side by
side with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigeration
compressor in the same plain with that objective pulley on the main
motor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker for
when that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be a
spring loaded tensioner (allowing for float between the main motor and
Frankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the main
engine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent when
you see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the new
portlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos over
at Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that one
climbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it full of
cool gadgets that I must reign in. heh heh
George
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Clime down into your engine compartment??? Sounds like you have dance floor in there. My little Yanmar sits in a hole about postage stamp size! I would like to fix a leak at the engine mounted fuel filter, but I can¢t even see the darn thing without a mirror and when I do use a mirror, there is no room left for my hand:(
It is time to change how fuel is filtered on my rig. I like the idea of excellent upstream filtering and bypassing the engine mounted filter! I have never seen any evidence that the hand operated fuel pump dues much anyway! Great idea, thanks:)
I will be following your projects with intent interest. Your High Deff. pictures make picking your brain a breeze and you don¢t even flinch! Please keep up the good work and all that great documentation in picture form. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, George, in your case a 1000 words wouldn¢t even scratch the surface! YUMMY!
Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:32 AM
Hi Skip,I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m notwilling to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group ofsystems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, thereare good instructions on the web and even circuit board layoutsavailable to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +electronics. … um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to monitorwhat’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour aday and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in awhile at the gauges. There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of ourPerkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when wepurchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over tothe starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much rightnow. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platformwhere
the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for therefrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming outand new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side byside with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigerationcompressor in the same plain with that objective pulley on the mainmotor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker forwhen that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be aspring loaded tensioner (allowing for float between the main motor andFrankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the mainengine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent whenyou see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the newportlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos overat Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that oneclimbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it
full ofcool gadgets that I must reign in. heh hehGeorge
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
Funny how it seems that the designers of
sailboats follow criteria that are intended to
see how double-jointed one can be. Important,
critical maintenance is difficult to the Nth
degree. Just checking water in the batteries in
my Mull 28 is near impossible, requiring you to
use a flashlight, mirror, and a baster to perform
this operation. Just how does your engine run if
the low-pressure fuel pump is sucking air through that leak? Herm
At 07:43 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:
Clime down into your engine compartment???
Sounds like you have dance floor in there. My
little Yanmar sits in a hole about postage stamp
size! I would like to fix a leak at the engine
mounted fuel filter, but I can¢t even see the
darn thing without a mirror and when I do use a
mirror, there is no room left for my hand:(It is time to change how fuel is filtered on my
rig. I like the idea of excellent upstream
filtering and bypassing the engine mounted
filter! I have never seen any evidence that the
hand operated fuel pump dues much anyway! Great idea, thanks:)I will be following your projects with intent
interest. Your High Deff. pictures make picking
your brain a breeze and you don¢t even flinch!
Please keep up the good work and all that great
documentation in picture form. They say a
picture is worth a 1000 words, George, in your
case a 1000 words wouldn¢t even scratch the surface! YUMMY!Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…>
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome
Watermaker/DC generator/Refrigeration
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:32 AMHi Skip,
I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m not
willing to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group of
systems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, there
are good instructions on the web and even circuit board layouts
available to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +
electronics. … um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to monitor
what’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour a
day and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in a
while at the gauges.There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of our
Perkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when we
purchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over to
the starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much right
now. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platform
where the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for the
refrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming out
and new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side by
side with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigeration
compressor in the same plain with that objective pulley on the main
motor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker for
when that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be a
spring loaded tensioner (allowing for float between the main motor and
Frankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the main
engine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent when
you see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the new
portlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos over
at Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that one
climbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it full of
cool gadgets that I must reign in. heh hehGeorge
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Herm,
Good Question I wish I had an answer for you! It may be that the leak is coming from elsewhere. All I can tell you at this point is that when the engine is running and I reach down under there blind and grab the filter bowl, I bring back fingers soaked in fuel and can see fuel dripping into the catch pan.
This fuel leak started the last time I was out and it will take removing the heat exchanger from the bulkhead next to the engine to get access to the problem area. I tried removing and reinstalling the filter bowl while at sea to no avail! Fortunately the boat is on the hard next to my barn now, so no boatyard blues for me!
I’ll keep the group posted as things develop:)
As far as adding battery water, I have tried the turkey baster, a hydrometer with an extended snorkel and small drinking water bottles with the little valve tops. I was never happy with any of them! I have settled in on using a long length of eighth inch plastic hose with a clunk attached. I place or hang a gallon bottle of distilled water in a handy place above the level of the batts. I drop the clunk in and suck a syphon. Still takes a flashlight and a mirror, but it is a lot cleaner and very quick! I am tempted to install a push to open valve in the hose, but as yet haven’t gotten motivated enough.
This probably goes without saying, but if you inadvertently dip the business end of the hose in the batt acid and forget to rise it…OH WELL???
Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
From: Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 5:01 PM
Funny how it seems that the designers of sailboats follow criteria that are intended to see how double-jointed one can be. Important, critical maintenance is difficult to the Nth degree. Just checking water in the batteries in my Mull 28 is near impossible, requiring you to use a flashlight, mirror, and a baster to perform this operation. Just how does your engine run if the low-pressure fuel pump is sucking air through that leak? HermAt 07:43 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:>Clime down into your engine compartment? ??? >Sounds like you have dance floor in there. My >little Yanmar sits in a hole about postage stamp >size! I would like to fix a leak at the engine >mounted fuel filter, but I can¢t even see the >darn thing without a mirror and when I do use a >mirror, there is no room left for my hand:(>>It is time to change how fuel is filtered on my
rig. I like the idea of excellent upstream >filtering and bypassing the engine mounted >filter! I have never seen any evidence that the >hand operated fuel pump dues much anyway! Great idea, thanks:)>>I will be following your projects with intent >interest. Your High Deff. pictures make picking >your brain a breeze and you don¢t even flinch! >Please keep up the good work and all that great >documentation in picture form. They say a >picture is worth a 1000 words, George, in your >case a 1000 words wouldn¢t even scratch the surface! YUMMY!>>Skip>1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel>Southern CA.>>>— On Sat, 10/11/08, George Huffman <thatboatguy2@ yahoo.com> wrote:>From: George Huffman <thatboatguy2@ yahoo.com>>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Custome >Watermaker/ DC generator/Refrigera tion>To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com>Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:32 AM>>Hi Skip,>>I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m not>willing to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group of>systems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, there>are good instructions on the web and even circuit board layouts>available to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +>electronics. … um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to monitor>what’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour a>day and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in
a>while at the gauges.>>There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of our>Perkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when we>purchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over to>the starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much right>now. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platform>where the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for the>refrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming out>and new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side by>side with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigeration>compressor in the same plain with that objective pulley on the main>motor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker for>when that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be a>spring loaded tensioner (allowing for
float between the main motor and>Frankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the main>engine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent when>you see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the new>portlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos over>at Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that one>climbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it full of>cool gadgets that I must reign in. heh heh>>George>>>
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
Skip,
Do you have an electric fuel pump back
at the fuel tank? If yes, this would explain why
the engine gets enough fuel despite the leak, and
explains why the mechanical fuel pump on the
engine is not sucking air. By the way, if the oil
is coming from the engine lube oil, it’ll be
dark, and won’t stink quite as strongly as diesel fuel. Herm
At 09:00 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:
Herm,
Good Question I wish I had an answer for you! It
may be that the leak is coming from elsewhere.
All I can tell you at this point is that when
the engine is running and I reach down under
there blind and grab the filter bowl, I bring
back fingers soaked in fuel and can see fuel dripping into the catch pan.This fuel leak started the last time I was out
and it will take removing the heat exchanger
from the bulkhead next to the engine to get
access to the problem area. I tried removing and
reinstalling the filter bowl while at sea to no
avail! Fortunately the boat is on the hard next
to my barn now, so no boatyard blues for me!I’ll keep the group posted as things develop:)
As far as adding battery water, I have tried the
turkey baster, a hydrometer with an extended
snorkel and small drinking water bottles with
the little valve tops. I was never happy with
any of them! I have settled in on using a long
length of eighth inch plastic hose with a clunk
attached. I place or hang a gallon bottle of
distilled water in a handy place above the level
of the batts. I drop the clunk in and suck a
syphon. Still takes a flashlight and a mirror,
but it is a lot cleaner and very quick! I am
tempted to install a push to open valve in the
hose, but as yet haven’t gotten motivated enough.This probably goes without saying, but if you
inadvertently dip the business end of the hose
in the batt acid and forget to rise it…OH WELL???Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, Herman and Gail Schiller
<hschiller2@…> wrote:
From: Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…>
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome
Watermaker/DC generator/Refrigeration
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 5:01 PMFunny how it seems that the designers of
sailboats follow criteria that are intended to
see how double-jointed one can be. Important,
critical maintenance is difficult to the Nth
degree. Just checking water in the batteries in
my Mull 28 is near impossible, requiring you to
use a flashlight, mirror, and a baster to perform
this operation. Just how does your engine run if
the low-pressure fuel pump is sucking air through that leak? HermAt 07:43 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:
Clime down into your engine compartment? ???
Sounds like you have dance floor in there. My
little Yanmar sits in a hole about postage stamp
size! I would like to fix a leak at the engine
mounted fuel filter, but I can¢t even see the
darn thing without a mirror and when I do use a
mirror, there is no room left for my hand:(It is time to change how fuel is filtered on my
rig. I like the idea of excellent upstream
filtering and bypassing the engine mounted
filter! I have never seen any evidence that the
hand operated fuel pump dues much anyway! Great idea, thanks:)I will be following your projects with intent
interest. Your High Deff. pictures make picking
your brain a breeze and you don¢t even flinch!
Please keep up the good work and all that great
documentation in picture form. They say a
picture is worth a 1000 words, George, in your
case a 1000 words wouldn¢t even scratch the surface! YUMMY!Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, George Huffman
<mailto:thatboatguy2%40yahoo.comthatboatguy2@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: George Huffman
<mailto:thatboatguy2%40yahoo.comthatboatguy2@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Custome
Watermaker/ DC generator/Refrigera tion
To:
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@
yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:32 AMHi Skip,
I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m not
willing to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group of
systems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, there
are good instructions on the web and even circuit board layouts
available to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +
electronics. … um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to monitor
what’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour a
day and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in a
while at the gauges.There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of our
Perkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when we
purchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over to
the starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much right
now. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platform
where the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for the
refrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming out
and new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side by
side with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigeration
compressor in the same plain with that objective pulley on the main
motor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker for
when that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be a
spring loaded tensioner (allowing for float between the main motor and
Frankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the main
engine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent when
you see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the new
portlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos over
at Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that one
climbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it full of
cool gadgets that I must reign in. heh hehGeorge
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Thanks Herm,
And negatory on that there high tech fuel pusher that you were suggesting, if there is one there, its middle name is “Stealth”, as I have owned my boat for over 6 years and been just about everywhere a guy can go in her belly to her masthead!
I have been seriously considering installing one just in case I need to polish my fuel again. I have a lash up with a 12v pump and a Franz oil filter that works wonders on nasty fuel, but is cumbersome to use! I would like to mount the Franz in a bypass line with a shutoff valve for just such occasions, besides it is nice to have access to a little diesel fuel every now and then without having to carry it in a can on deck. I had a situation once where I needed to loan a friend some fuel at sea with out shutting down my engine. It was a pain! With an auxiliary filtered output, such challenges would be a piece of cake!
It is definitely nice clean diesel fuel leaking down over the filter can!
As I am planning to keep her on the hard till next East Pacific cruising season, I have bigger fish to fry and that job is still low on the priority list. I’ll keep the board posted:)
Skip
1982 F33 CK. Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sat, 10/11/08, Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
From: Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:57 PM
Skip,Do you have an electric fuel pump back at the fuel tank? If yes, this would explain why the engine gets enough fuel despite the leak, and explains why the mechanical fuel pump on the engine is not sucking air. By the way, if the oil is coming from the engine lube oil, it’ll be dark, and won’t stink quite as strongly as diesel fuel. HermAt 09:00 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:>Herm,>>Good Question I wish I had an answer for you! It >may be that the leak is coming from elsewhere. >All I can tell you at this point is that when >the engine is running and I reach down under >there blind and grab the filter bowl, I bring >back fingers soaked in fuel and can see fuel dripping into the catch pan.>>This fuel leak started the last time I was out >and it will take removing the heat exchanger >from the bulkhead next to the engine to get
access to the problem area. I tried removing and >reinstalling the filter bowl while at sea to no >avail! Fortunately the boat is on the hard next >to my barn now, so no boatyard blues for me!>>I’ll keep the group posted as things develop:)>>As far as adding battery water, I have tried the >turkey baster, a hydrometer with an extended >snorkel and small drinking water bottles with >the little valve tops. I was never happy with >any of them! I have settled in on using a long >length of eighth inch plastic hose with a clunk >attached. I place or hang a gallon bottle of >distilled water in a handy place above the level >of the batts. I drop the clunk in and suck a >syphon. Still takes a flashlight and a mirror, >but it is a lot cleaner and very quick! I am >tempted to install a push to open valve in the >hose, but
as yet haven’t gotten motivated enough.>>This probably goes without saying, but if you >inadvertently dip the business end of the hose >in the batt acid and forget to rise it…OH WELL???>>Skip>1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel>Southern CA.>>>— On Sat, 10/11/08, Herman and Gail Schiller ><hschiller2@suddenli nk.net> wrote:>From: Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenli nk.net>>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Custome >Watermaker/ DC generator/Refrigera tion>To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com>Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 5:01 PM>>Funny how it seems
that the designers of>sailboats follow criteria that are intended to>see how double-jointed one can be. Important,>critical maintenance is difficult to the Nth>degree. Just checking water in the batteries in>my Mull 28 is near impossible, requiring you to>use a flashlight, mirror, and a baster to perform>this operation. Just how does your engine run if>the low-pressure fuel pump is sucking air through that leak? Herm>>At 07:43 PM 10/11/2008, you wrote:>> >Clime down into your engine compartment? ???> >Sounds like you have dance floor in there. My> >little Yanmar sits in a hole about postage stamp> >size! I would like to fix a leak at the engine> >mounted fuel filter, but I can¢t even see the> >darn thing without a mirror and when I do use a> >mirror, there is no room left for my hand:(> >>
It is time to change how fuel is filtered on my> >rig. I like the idea of excellent upstream> >filtering and bypassing the engine mounted> >filter! I have never seen any evidence that the> >hand operated fuel pump dues much anyway! Great idea, thanks:)> >> >I will be following your projects with intent> >interest. Your High Deff. pictures make picking> >your brain a breeze and you don¢t even flinch!> >Please keep up the good work and all that great> >documentation in picture form. They say a> >picture is worth a 1000 words, George, in your> >case a 1000 words wouldn¢t even scratch the surface! YUMMY!> >> >Skip> >1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel> >Southern CA.> >> >> >— On Sat, 10/11/08, George Huffman > <<mailto:thatboatgu y2%40yahoo.
com>thatboatguy2 @ yahoo.com> wrote:> >From: George Huffman > <<mailto:thatboatgu y2%40yahoo. com>thatboatguy2 @ yahoo.com>> >Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Custome> >Watermaker/ DC generator/Refrigera tion> >To: > <mailto:FreedomOwne rsGroup%40yahoog roups.com> FreedomOwnersGro up@ > yahoogroups. com> >Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 6:32 AM> >> >Hi Skip,> >> >I think that the long shaft would add a level of complexity I’m not> >willing to go to. Despite what appears to be a very complex group of> >systems, I’ve kept things as simple as possible. For example, there> >are good instructions on the web and even circuit board layouts> >available to automate the watermaker but lets see… salt water +> >electronics. … um… no thank you. It’s true I’ll have to
monitor> >what’s going on with the Frankenmaker myself but only about an hour a> >day and I can relax with a book in the cockpit glancing once in a> >while at the gauges.> >> >There is already a set of objective pulleys on the front of our> >Perkins 4-108 for the defunct refrigeration that was there when we> >purchased Marquesa. I’ve removed the old compressor bracket. Over to> >the starboard side of our engine compartment there isn’t much right> >now. A rotted out battery box for a 4d battery, the old platform> >where the water cooled condenser and filter dryer were for the> >refrigeration and about 10 big lead pig’s. All of that is coming out> >and new platforms built. One for the Frankenmaker arranged side by> >side with the main motor and with the pulley on the refrigeration> >compressor in the same plain with
that objective pulley on the main> >motor. There will be a fixed belt tensioner on the Frankenmaker for> >when that compressor is belted to the Kabota and there will be a> >spring loaded tensioner (allowing for float between the main motor and> >Frankemaker frame) for when the compressor is belted to the main> >engine. This sounds complicated but it will all become apparent when> >you see the photos. Alas, this weeks project is to install the new> >portlights. I will try and post a few engine compartment photos over> >at Lats and Atts today. I do love an engine compartment that one> >climbs down into! It’s the overwhelming temptation to fill it full of> >cool gadgets that I must reign in. heh heh> >> >George> >> >> >>>>
Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Well Skip, You may notice that I did keep the engine mounted fuel filter on the Kubota… for now. A big problem area on a lot of the yanmar engine mounted filters housings (particularly the GM series) is that the metal casting is quite soft. I think it may even be zinc instead of aluminum but I won’t swear to that. Over-tightening the bleed screw is very easy to do resulting in a leak there. If it were me I’d replace the remote filter entirely if you can’t find the leak. The lever action for the hand operated fuel pump only works when the cam is “down” or “in”. If you pump on that lever and don’t get fuel flow when bleeding the motor, try turning the engine over a little and then pump again. This get’s the fuel pump down off the lobe of the cam. If you still don’t get flow then there it may be that your
check valves are not operating correctly in that pump and that’s something to repair in any event.You are correct that so many modern boats had no thought for the maintainer. Designers have gotten further and further from that as customers tend to demand more interior space and better sailing performance. Boats in our size range are tending more and more towards weekending and picknicking. I’ve always wanted to ask Gary why such a big engine compartment on a boat that was orriginally desiged to be engineless? I got the first of 6 new portlights in yesterday and I’ll post some more pictures at Lats and Atts later today. They tend to go much faster after the first one. 
George
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Hey George, this is exactly why boards like this one are so great when folks participate in them. Nowhere in my book work nor anywhere else have I found out about the problem of using the manual fuel pump when the main pump is on the cam! I am an Old Fart and this just now comes to my attention? WOW! It makes perfect sense now that you mention it, but…? Just goes to show that we all can still learn, if we are open to it:) This is yet another good reason to install an electric pump up stream!
You might be right about the torque on bleed screw being over man handled! I remember when I was fighting with this problem while at sea, I was dismayed that I did not have a new crush washer handy to install there:( I could have very well ham fisted that darn thing to death in my frustration while attempting to stop the leak! I HATE THE SMELL OF DIESEL IN MY BOAT:(! It¢s kind of funny, back when I was a younger fellow, I did some cross country 18 wheelin¢ and kinda liked the that smell. Go figure!
Maybe that LARGE (engine room) was actually his Wine Cellar:) Course me being a Tea Totter, that would be have to be my Chocolate Larder!!!
What size and make of Portlight are you installing?
Skip
1982 F33 Ck, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sun, 10/12/08, george huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: george huffman <thatboatguy2@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 5:04 AM
Well Skip, You may notice that I did keep the engine mounted fuel filter on the Kubota… for now. A big problem area on a lot of the yanmar engine mounted filters housings (particularly the GM series) is that the metal casting is quite soft. I think it may even be zinc instead of aluminum but I won’t swear to that. Over-tightening the bleed screw is very easy to do resulting in a leak there. If it were me I’d replace the remote filter entirely if you can’t find the leak. The lever action for the hand operated fuel pump only works when the cam is “down” or “in”. If you pump on that lever and don’t get fuel flow when bleeding the motor, try turning the engine over a little and then pump again. This get’s the fuel pump down off the lobe of the cam. If you still don’t get flow then there it may be that your check valves are not operating correctly in that pump and that’s something to
repair in any event.You are correct that so many modern boats had no thought for the maintainer. Designers have gotten further and further from that as customers tend to demand more interior space and better sailing performance. Boats in our size range are tending more and more towards weekending and picknicking. I’ve always wanted to ask Gary why such a big engine compartment on a boat that was orriginally desiged to be engineless? I got the first of 6 new portlights in yesterday and I’ll post some more pictures at Lats and Atts later today. They tend to go much faster after the first one. George
Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Hey Skip,I also drove “big” trucks. Cab-over international with a 53 foot van 102 inch wide. All pre Air-ride. A trip down I-10 could leave you peeing red at the end from the damage to your kidneys! Lots of good stories from those days… but I’m glad I don’t do that anymore. Hope we meet “out there” some time and we can swap stories.
George
Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)
I agree that the smell of Diesel fuel in a boat is not exactly a pleasant aroma,
at least it’s not the frightening smell of gasoline inside a boat.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Skipper Skip <skipperf33@…> wrote:
Hey George, this is exactly why boards like this one are so great when folks
participate in them. Nowhere in my book work nor anywhere else have I found out
about the problem of using the manual fuel pump when the main pump is on the
cam! I am an Old Fart and this just now comes to my attention? WOW! It makes
perfect sense now that you mention it, but…? Just goes to show that we
all can still learn, if we are open to it:) This is yet another good reason to
install an electric pump up stream!
Â
You might be right about the torque on bleed screw being over man handled! I
remember when I was fighting with this problem while at sea, I was dismayed that
I did not have a new crush washer handy to install there:( I could have very
well ham fisted that darn thing to death in my frustration while attempting to
stop the leak! I HATE THE SMELL OF DIESEL IN MY BOAT:(! Itʼs kind of funny,
back when I was a younger fellow, I did some cross country 18 wheelinʼ and
kinda liked the that smell. Go figure!
Â
Maybe that LARGE (engine room) was actually his Wine Cellar:) Course me being
a Tea Totter, that would be have to be my Chocolate Larder!!!
What size and make of Portlight are you installing?
Â
Skip
1982 F33 Ck, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sun, 10/12/08, george huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: george huffman <thatboatguy2@…>
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC
generator/Refrigeration
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 5:04 AMWell Skip,
You may notice that I did keep the engine mounted fuel filter on the
Kubota… for now. A big problem area on a lot of the yanmar engine mounted
filters housings (particularly the GM series) is that the metal casting is quite
soft. I think it may even be zinc instead of aluminum but I won’t swear to
that. Over-tightening the bleed screw is very easy to do resulting in a leak
there. If it were me I’d replace the remote filter entirely if you can’t find
the leak. The lever action for the hand operated fuel pump only works when the
cam is “down” or “in”. If you pump on that lever and don’t get fuel flow when
bleeding the motor, try turning the engine over a little and then pump again.Â
This get’s the fuel pump down off the lobe of the cam. If you still don’t get
flow then there it may be that your check valves are not operating correctly in
that pump and that’s something to repair in any event.You are correct that so many modern boats had no thought for the maintainer.Â
Designers have gotten further and further from that as customers tend to demand
more interior space and better sailing performance. Boats in our size range
are tending more and more towards weekending and picknicking. I’ve always
wanted to ask Gary why such a big engine compartment on a boat that was
orriginally desiged to be engineless?ÂI got the first of 6 new portlights in yesterday and I’ll post some more
pictures at Lats and Atts later today. They tend to go much faster after the
first one. :)ÂGeorge
Posted by Lola Jackson (lolaltd@…>)
I found spraying product Frebreeze (sp) for air fresh or fabric fresh really eliminates a lot. Also vinegar again a rag soaked in it under the engine in that little well area.I have a friend who rented a house to smokers, and vinegar rags were hung all over, and pans of it…it really made a difference…try it.Lola— On Sun, 10/12/08, sgaber@… <sgaber@…> wrote:From: sgaber@… <sgaber@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comCc: “Skipper Skip” <skipperf33@…>Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 11:39 PM
I agree that the smell of Diesel fuel in a boat is not exactly a pleasant aroma, at least it’s not the frightening smell of gasoline inside a boat.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Skipper Skip <skipperf33@yahoo. com> wrote:
Hey George, this is exactly why boards like this one are so great when folks participate in them. Nowhere in my book work nor anywhere else have I found out about the problem of using the manual fuel pump when the main pump is on the cam! I am an Old Fart and this just now comes to my attention? WOW! It makes perfect sense now that you mention it, but… …? Just goes to show that we all can still learn, if we are open to it:) This is yet another good reason to install an electric pump up stream!
You might be right about the torque on bleed screw being over man handled! I remember when I was fighting with this problem while at sea, I was dismayed that I did not have a new crush washer handy to install there:( I could have very well ham fisted that darn thing to death in my frustration while attempting to stop the leak! I HATE THE SMELL OF DIESEL IN MY BOAT:(! Itʼs kind of funny, back when I was a younger fellow, I did some cross country 18 wheelinʼ and kinda liked the that smell. Go figure!
Maybe that LARGE (engine room) was actually his Wine Cellar:) Course me being a Tea Totter, that would be have to be my Chocolate Larder!!! !!!
What size and make of Portlight are you installing?Skip
1982 F33 Ck, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sun, 10/12/08, george huffman <thatboatguy2@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: george huffman <thatboatguy2@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/Refrigera tion
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 5:04 AMWell Skip,
You may notice that I did keep the engine mounted fuel filter on the Kubota… for now. A big problem area on a lot of the yanmar engine mounted filters housings (particularly the GM series) is that the metal casting is quite soft. I think it may even be zinc instead of aluminum but I won’t swear to that. Over-tightening the bleed screw is very easy to do resulting in a leak there. If it were me I’d replace the remote filter entirely if you can’t find the leak. The lever action for the hand operated fuel pump only works when the cam is “down” or “in”. If you pump on that lever and don’t get fuel flow when bleeding the motor, try turning the engine over a little and then pump again. This get’s the fuel pump down off the lobe of the cam. If you still don’t get flow then there it may be that your check valves are not operating correctly in that pump and that’s something to repair in any event.
You are correct that so many modern boats had no thought for the maintainer. Designers have gotten further and further from that as customers tend to demand more interior space and better sailing performance. Boats in our size range are tending more and more towards weekending and picknicking. I’ve always wanted to ask Gary why such a big engine compartment on a boat that was orriginally desiged to be engineless?
I got the first of 6 new portlights in yesterday and I’ll post some more pictures at Lats and Atts later today. They tend to go much faster after the first one.
George
\
Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
FORGIVE me folks, this is a little off topic, but I hope you get a chuckle out of it anyway:)
George,
You are right about lots of stories! One of the most interesting jobs I ever had was pulling steel out of the Fontana Mill up on I-10. I would pull rolled steel out of the mill to local fabrication shops. Then a few days later I would load that same steel back on my rig, but now it was in the form of pipe!
My rig was a 280" wheelbase Pete cab-over with a 6’ sliding 5th wheel pulling a 40’ stretch trailer. When they were ready for me to pickup the pipe, I would set the trailer brakes and hit a switch that would hydraulicly pull a couple of serious pins in the middle of the trailer frame, then I would pull forward 30’ till the trailer was now 70’ long. They would then load that 90’ pipe on my rig and suggest that I deliver it DOWN TOWN LA. Yea Right!!! Let me tell ya, that fellow that sang the song Give Me 40 Acers and I¢ll Turn This Rig Around, was singin¢ MY SONG!
You would not believe what I had to do to make a right turn at a city intersection! The Cops would do “U” turns and literally run the other way when they saw me coming! They wanted NO PART OF ME!
That job was fun and every now an then I think I might like to go back out on the road. Then I remember that after a while it all boils down to a lonely white line and a gear shift lever! Home is where the heart is and mine needed my woman by it¢s side!
I also spent 10 years flying the Bush of Alaska, but that is another story or ten!
George, maybe we will Run On to Each Other down the way, lets just hope it is not at sea:) Tee Hee
Skip
1982 F33 CT, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Sun, 10/12/08, george huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
From: george huffman <thatboatguy2@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Custome Watermaker/DC generator/RefrigerationTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 4:13 PM
Hey Skip,I also drove “big” trucks. Cab-over international with a 53 foot van 102 inch wide. All pre Air-ride. A trip down I-10 could leave you peeing red at the end from the damage to your kidneys! Lots of good stories from those days… but I’m glad I don’t do that anymore. Hope we meet “out there” some time and we can swap stories. George
\
Posted by Bruce Wasilewski (bw08209@…>)
Read an article some months ago that claimed “Calgon”
eliminates the smell of diesel fuel. I have used the Frebreeze and it works
for a short while. I hate the smell of fuel in the boat and take great pains
make sure all fittings are tight and leak free.