Posted by daniel.oshaughnessy (daniel.oshaughnessy@…>)
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.
I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.
Many Thanks
Dan
Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
Daniel,I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 " at deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New Jersey.That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean since then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500, delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” <daniel.oshaughnessy@…> wrote: Hi Freedom Folks! My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the main mast; adjacent to the wishbone. I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area. Many Thanks Dan
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Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Hi Daniel,
Both my F44 masts were damaged by leaning against an overhead
powerline. Several experts said the repairs were easy to do. So I
wouldn’t aim for replacing your CF mast if it mas minor damage. A
good resin and fiber company can do the job.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “daniel.oshaughnessy”
<daniel.oshaughnessy@…> wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Repair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not matter if becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of alloy. Healing moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu. mast.Frank Minelli <myslo@…> wrote: Daniel,I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 " at deck level. (measured the stump of the
broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New Jersey.That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean since then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500, delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” <daniel.oshaughnessy@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Freedom Folks!My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of themain mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or inforegarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast forexample) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many ThanksDan No need to miss
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Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
How significant is the damage and how did
it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007
8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
F33 Mast
Repair it
! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not matter if becomes a
little thicker. It still will be half the weight of alloy. Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu. mast.
Frank Minelli
<myslo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised
that I found the thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be
between 1/8 and 3/16 " at deck level.
(measured the stump of the broken stick)
I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean since then, and that stick is doing
fine. Cost at that time was $3500, delivered in Miami.
“daniel.oshaughnessy”
<daniel.oshaughnessy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.
I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay
area.
Many Thanks
Dan
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on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile.
Get
started.
\
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
Yahoo! Answers.
\
Posted by daniel.oshaughnessy (daniel.oshaughnessy@…>)
Thnks, Michel
This message board and it’s members are great.
Always ready for a quick and useful response.
I’ll post some pic’s of the damage and eventual repairs or replacement
if necessary.
Thanks again
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Both my F44 masts were damaged by leaning against an overhead
powerline. Several experts said the repairs were easy to do. So I
wouldn’t aim for replacing your CF mast if it mas minor damage. A
good resin and fiber company can do the job.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “daniel.oshaughnessy”
daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
Posted by daniel.oshaughnessy (daniel.oshaughnessy@…>)
Hi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot the outer
shell and exposing some fibres.
Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but that is
another story!)
Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:
How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu. mast.Frank Minelli myslo@… wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 " at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@… wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
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on-the-go
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http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
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Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
The reason I asked about the extent of the
damage was for two reasons. First is the possibility it is more extensive then
you can see from the outside. You can examine most of the mast from the inside
when its out of the boat with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is
gelcoat and fiberglass cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes) or so I was told.
The second reason is that on my 33 the rig
was converted from wishbones and wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks.
I am not the original owner but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.
The gooseneck is through bolted to the
mast. To do this they cut a whole in the front of each mast so they could
insert and hold the bolts. They put an aluminum plate over the hole (not
structural) and its easily removable for inspection or repair purposes.
With so many people concerned about
putting additional screw holes in the mast I was surprised Freedom had
put such large holes in the masts. I spoke to several carbon fiber mast
experts. The consensus was it was okay especially on the forward face of the
mast at this location. I have seen no stress cracking or other signs of
deterioration at the corners of this opening (and the boat has been surfing
over 10 knots and in winds up to slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of
the mast. The bolts and nuts holding the gooseneck also show not wear around
them.
So my conclusion is that the fear of some
small holes or a small localized area of impact damage in similar locations is
not an issue.
I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would only be cosmetic
unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back quite a ways. I felt
that doing this might reduce strength rather then add to it.
Alan
F-33 Hull
#51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50
AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
F33 Mast
Hi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot the outer
shell and exposing some fibres.
Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but that is
another story!)
Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:
How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu. mast.Frank Minelli myslo@… wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 " at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@… wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay
area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile.
Get
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
started.
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people.
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Go to Yahoo! Answers.
\
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
I agree with Alan’s observations about making holes in CF masts; you
can do it, it’s not a big deal.
When planning repairs to both my damaged CF masts (they had sawcuts
near the top ends going about half into the masts) I asked three
renowned Dutch carbon fiber mast makers for an opinion and they came
all with the same story. Repairs are easy as long as you have the
experience, the right materials and the right working conditions
(mainly ambient temperature). The repair was not expensive.
I also asked about drilling and tapping holes. They all said that if
the wall thickness is enough, you can drill and tap thread and use
machine screws and locktite. Is you figure the wall is not thick
enough to provide the meat for a screw, use large stainless steel
rivets. Aluminum rivets are too soft they said, they will stretch
under load and start moving over time, wearing out the hole from the
inside with the blob at the in-mast end of the rivet.
I also asked about corrosion, but they were puzzled about that
question and said they never found that to be a problem with CF.
Perhaps because of the use of resin to cover the carbon?
My original 25 year old mizzen has an aluminum topplate glued in and
there are no signs of corrosion of the CF mast. Of course, you see
the normal corrosion where stainless steel meets aluminum.
Best,
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:
The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they cut a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I
have seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts
and nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would
only be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
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to Yahoo!
Answers.
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber masts, at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done several with
no ill effects.
Lance
Bright Star
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:
The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they cut a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get
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http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
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to Yahoo!
Answers.
Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
Lance, Statement of a salesman =evidence??lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote: As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber masts, at the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-furl system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it requires a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated furling pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done several with no ill effects. Lance Bright Star
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz” <akusinitz@…> wrote: > > The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two reasons. First > is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from the outside. > You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out of the boat > with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat and fiberglass > cloth and is not really structural (only for compression purposes) or so I > was told. > > The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from wishbones and > wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the original owner > but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom. > > The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they cut a whole
in > the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts. They put an > aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily removable for > inspection or repair purposes. > > With so many people concerned about putting additional screw holes in the > mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the masts. I spoke > to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was okay > especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I have seen no > stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners of this > opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in winds up to > slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts and nuts > holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them. > > So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a small
localized > area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue. > > > I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would only be > cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back quite a > ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then add to it. > > > > Alan > > F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR > > > > _____ > > From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daniel.oshaughnessy > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
F33 Mast > > > > > Hi Allan, > > The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot the outer > shell and exposing some fibres. > > Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but that is > another story!) > > Regards > > Dan > — In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003% 40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz” > <akusinitz@> wrote: > > > > How significant is the damage and how did it occur? > > > > Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003% 40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre > laviolette > > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM > > To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003% 40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 Mast > > > > > > > > Repair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not > matter if > > becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of alloy. > Healing > > moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu. mast. > > > > Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found the > > thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and 3/16 " at > >
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick) > > > > I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of New > Jersey. > > That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the Caribbean > since > > then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500, > > delivered in Miami. > > > > “daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Freedom Folks! > > > > My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge of the > > main mast; adjacent to the wishbone. > > > > I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or info > > regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast for > > example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area. > > > > Many Thanks > >
Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > No need to miss a message. Get email > > <http://us.rd. > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail> > on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get > > <http://us.rd. > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail> > started. > > > > > > >
_____ > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. > > <http://ca.answers. http://ca.answers.yahoo.com yahoo.com> Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > > >
Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)
I wonder if they would put that in writing?
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:
As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber masts,
at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it
requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done several
with
no ill effects.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they cut
a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw
holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was
okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I
have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts
and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would
only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then
add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot
the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but
that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found
the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and
3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of
New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was $3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge
of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast
for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
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http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
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Answers.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
C’mon Dave, don’t be cynical! You KNOW (or BELIEVE) that carbon fibre
masts are good!
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:
I wonder if they would put that in writing?
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@> wrote:As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber masts,
at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-
furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it
requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done several
with
no ill effects.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from
the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out
of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat
and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they
cut
a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw
holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was
okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I
have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners
of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in
winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts
and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a
small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would
only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges
back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then
add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot
the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but
that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does
not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found
the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and
3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of
New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was
$3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge
of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints
or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast
for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get
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yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
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Go
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Answers.
Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)
Carbon fiber (as opposed to fibre) is great stuff but we know you
can’t just go drilling and cutting willy-nilly.
I was doing a Farallones Race one year and watched a SC 52 drop a CF
rig just ahead of us in mild conditions. That wasn’t the first or
last time that boat lost her rig. Apparently one or more of the
failures was due to improper instrument installation on the mast.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
C’mon Dave, don’t be cynical! You KNOW (or BELIEVE) that carbon
fibre
masts are good!— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@> wrote:I wonder if they would put that in writing?
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@> wrote:As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber
masts,
at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-
furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it
requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated
furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done
several
with
no ill effects.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from
the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out
of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat
and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they
cut
a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the
bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw
holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it
was
okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location.
I
have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the
corners
of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in
winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The
bolts
and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a
small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it
would
only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges
back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather
then
add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination
ot
the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but
that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers.
Does
not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight
of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier
alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I
found
the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and
3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products
of
New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was
$3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading
edge
of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any
hints
or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali
mast
for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
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yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
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yahoo.com>
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Answers.
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Statement of Kevin Montague, Northeast Rigging, 978-287-0060. If you
don’t know him, he’s an excellent rigger. Their loft is in the same
space as Composite Engineering (carbon fiber mast building, repair,
kayaks, etc.), and they have a lot of experience working with carbon
rigs, freestanding and otherwise. If you’re ever looking for a good
rigger in the Boston area, I can highly recommend his work.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Frank Minelli <myslo@…>
wrote:
Lance,
Statement of a salesman =evidence??
lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…>
wrote: As further evidence of the
workability of our carbon fiber masts, at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it
requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done several
with
no ill effects.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see from
the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its out of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is gelcoat
and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this they cut
a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional screw
holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it was
okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this location. I
have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the corners
of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in
winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The bolts
and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it would
only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather then
add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination ot
the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this (but
that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers. Does
not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the weight of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I found
the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and
3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole Products of
New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was
$3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading edge
of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any hints
or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali mast
for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay area.Many Thanks
Dan
No need to miss a message. Get email
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get
<http://us.rd.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail
yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
started.
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people.
<http://ca.answers. http://ca.answers.yahoo.com yahoo.com>
Go
to Yahoo!
Answers.
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
Posted by Dan OShaughnessy (daniel.oshaughnessy@…>)
Many Thanks to Allan and Michel, It is reasurring to hear that these masts can take such apparent abuse! If I were to install a “regular” boom, I would try to reach up from the base of the mast to couple backing washers and nuts. One could even make up some tool to hold the washers and screws whilst the external bolts were tightened. However, I still like the idea of the wishbones, so i’m not sure which way to go. I’ll have a good think when the mast is off. Regards Dan
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Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)
If you do choose to install a “regular” boom, you could do what Freedom did when the masts were built. Reinforce the area where the boom will be attached by wrapping it in fiberglass or carbon fiber and epoxy. Drill a 1.5" hole on the forward section of the mast at the height of the intended boom and use that hole to grip the nuts, bolts, etc, that will go on the inside of the mast to attach the gooseneck. Of course, check with a real expert first.
Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio
-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan OShaughnessySent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:59 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 Mast
Many Thanks to Allan and Michel,
It is reasurring to hear that these masts can take such apparent abuse!
If I were to install a “regular” boom, I would try to reach up from the base of the mast to couple backing washers and nuts. One could even make up some tool to hold the washers and screws whilst the external bolts were tightened.
However, I still like the idea of the wishbones, so i’m not sure which way to go. I’ll have a good think when the mast is off.
Regards
Dan
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Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Dan,
Take a look at www.wyliecat.com to see the latest development in CF
freestanding masts combined with wishbones; it’s awesome! It
convinced me that there in fact is a future for wishbones. I’m
rerigging an F44 along the lines of the Wyliecat.
Best,
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Dan OShaughnessy
<daniel.oshaughnessy@…> wrote:
Many Thanks to Allan and Michel,
It is reasurring to hear that these masts can take such apparent
abuse!
If I were to install a “regular” boom, I would try to reach up
from the base of the mast to couple backing washers and nuts. One
could even make up some tool to hold the washers and screws whilst
the external bolts were tightened.
However, I still like the idea of the wishbones, so i’m not sure
which way to go. I’ll have a good think when the mast is off.Regards
Dan
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Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Dave, I wasn’t aware of the difference between fiber and fibre; I
thought it is just a difference between UK English and US English,
like centerboard and centreboard. So now I’m curious: what the heck
is fibre??
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:
Carbon fiber (as opposed to fibre) is great stuff but we know you
can’t just go drilling and cutting willy-nilly.
I was doing a Farallones Race one year and watched a SC 52 drop a
CF
rig just ahead of us in mild conditions. That wasn’t the first or
last time that boat lost her rig. Apparently one or more of the
failures was due to improper instrument installation on the mast.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:C’mon Dave, don’t be cynical! You KNOW (or BELIEVE) that carbon
fibre
masts are good!— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@> wrote:I wonder if they would put that in writing?
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@> wrote:As further evidence of the workability of our carbon fiber
masts,
at
the NE Boat Show, I asked a rigger about installing a leisure-
furl
system on a Freedom. If you’re familiar with the system, it
requires
a hole through the mast to attach the boom and associated
furling
pieces. He said that it was no problem and they had done
several
with
no ill effects.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:The reason I asked about the extent of the damage was for
two
reasons. First
is the possibility it is more extensive then you can see
from
the
outside.
You can examine most of the mast from the inside when its
out
of
the boat
with a good flashlight. The outer skin of the mast is
gelcoat
and
fiberglass
cloth and is not really structural (only for compression
purposes)
or so I
was told.The second reason is that on my 33 the rig was converted
from
wishbones and
wraparound sails to straight booms and tracks. I am not the
original owner
but was told this retrofit was done at Freedom.The gooseneck is through bolted to the mast. To do this
they
cut
a
whole in
the front of each mast so they could insert and hold the
bolts.
They put an
aluminum plate over the hole (not structural) and its
easily
removable for
inspection or repair purposes.With so many people concerned about putting additional
screw
holes
in the
mast I was surprised Freedom had put such large holes in
the
masts. I spoke
to several carbon fiber mast experts. The consensus was it
was
okay
especially on the forward face of the mast at this
location.
I
have
seen no
stress cracking or other signs of deterioration at the
corners
of
this
opening (and the boat has been surfing over 10 knots and in
winds
up to
slightly over 40 knots) or on the inside of the mast. The
bolts
and
nuts
holding the gooseneck also show not wear around them.So my conclusion is that the fear of some small holes or a
small
localized
area of impact damage in similar locations is not an issue.I did consider glassing the opening but was told that it
would
only
be
cosmetic unless I beveled the underlying carbon fiber edges
back
quite a
ways. I felt that doing this might reduce strength rather
then
add
to it.Alan
F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
daniel.oshaughnessy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:50 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F33 MastHi Allan,
The damage is apparantly impact damage causing delamination
ot
the
outer
shell and exposing some fibres.Don’t know how it occured as I bought the boat like this
(but
that
is
another story!)Regards
Dan
— In freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@> wrote:How significant is the damage and how did it occur?
Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre
laviolette
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:42 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@ <mailto:freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F33 MastRepair it ! Not difficult,epoxy and appropriate fibers.
Does
not
matter if
becomes a little thicker. It still will be half the
weight
of
alloy.
Healing
moment and stability would be affected with much heavier
alu.
mast.Frank Minelli myslo@ wrote:
Daniel,
I own a F33 , 1981 also. (Hull No 32) Be advised that I
found
the
thickness of the carbon fiber layup to be between 1/8 and
3/16 "
at
deck level. (measured the stump of the broken stick)I replaced it with an aluminum pole, made by Pole
Products
of
New
Jersey.
That was in 1997. Been sailing thousands of miles in the
Caribbean
since
then, and that stick is doing fine. Cost at that time was
$3500,
delivered in Miami.“daniel.oshaughnessy” daniel.oshaughnessy@ wrote:
Hi Freedom Folks!
My 1981 Freedom 33 has some impact damage on the leading
edge
of
the
main mast; adjacent to the wishbone.I’m not too familiar with repairs to carbon masts. Any
hints
or
info
regarding suitable aluminum poles (wall thickness of ali
mast
for
example) and perhaps a supplier in the Chesapeake bay
area.Many Thanks
Dan
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Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…>)
Michel,
I may have mentioned this before in this group, but here I go again. My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” (San Francisco Bay) has had this Wylie rig for years. It was installed by the previous owner, and I can attest to its ease of handling and sail trimming benefits. At one point after I first bought her, I too, considered installing standard booms. Many other sailors cringed and seemed put-off by the free-standing rig and wishbones. I’m certainly glad I regained my sanity and kept the wishbone rig. I remind other conventional rig sailors that airplanes got rid of wires decades ago!
The only drawback to me (but I’m lazy) is putting the sail covers on after a great day of sailing. Its a bit of work fitting the cover under each line of the sail catchment system.
By the way, my rig uses the Harken Batt-Car system on a track.
Jay