Posted by JoanJohn@… (JoanJohn@…)
anyone have experience installing geniker on an F45? Or have one already installed and can share the pros and cons?
Thanks.
John Ernst
Hertford, NC
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
John
Run, don’t walk to North Sails and get one.
Ours has
expanded our experience significantly.
In Maine
last year, we used it daily. Have a
1.5 ounce red white and blue sail. North service was perfect.
Our jib is enlarged by 1/3, so the halyard point for ours makes our
gennaker somewhat larger than a stock F45.
I also recommend that.
Installation is
a no brainer. Using it requires
several sets and douses to get it right, but the performance is terrific.
We store it on
deck in the super bag they supply.
The snuffer is brilliant in design and use.
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile
Posted by rersk (rersk@…>)
George,
I’m looking at the possibility of buying a 1991 F45. Currently
my wife and I are sailing a Cape Dory 31 Cutter and have cruised her
from Maine to the Bahamas. We’re looking to go farther and faster
in more comfort. It seems to me that sail choices on the stock F45
are limited, and I can see the good uses for a cruising spinnaker,
but the boat doesn’t have sheet winches on the coaming. How do you
sheet your geniker? Also you refer to enlarging the jib. Did you
retain the camber spar? Mark Edwards showed us the boat, and he’s a
very fast talker and a good salesman, so it’s hard to sort out the
hype from reality. We’re bowled over by the excellence of the
interior design, but the strange sail plan and relatively
unprotected deck areas give us the willies. Any commentary would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Reed
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “George E. Herchenroether”
<g.herk@c…> wrote:
John
Run, don’t walk to North Sails and get one.
Ours has expanded our experience significantly. In Maine last
year, we used
it daily. Have a 1.5 ounce red white and blue sail. North
service was
perfect.
Our jib is enlarged by 1/3, so the halyard point for ours makes
our gennaker
somewhat larger than a stock F45. I also recommend that.Installation is a no brainer. Using it requires several sets and
douses to
get it right, but the performance is terrific.We store it on deck in the super bag they supply. The snuffer is
brilliant
in design and use.George E. Herchenroether
4 Bush St
Newport, RI 02840401.847.2028
401.338.5329 mobile
Posted by JoanJohn@… (JoanJohn@…)
Hi Reed -
George’s email was in response to my question almost a month ago about getting a gennaker or asymmetric spinnaker for my F45. I wrote to him again with several questions about his “1/3 larger” jib and about how he set up winches. I have not heard from him since then, so if you hear from him “off site” please let me know. Otherwise I will look for his reply to your email.
I am in discussion with Doyle Chesapeake about having one of their APC’s (‘assymetrical power cruiser’) made for us. I have not yet figured how to run the sheet(s).
About the F45 sail plan: it is unorthodox but works very well for short handed cruising (my wife and I) - unless the F45 you are looking at is one that has been converted to furling genoa. Then you need two on deck for running sheets during tacking.
About the relatively unprotected deck areas: We have 40’ of jack line port and starboard, and 6’ tethers to our inflatable PFD’s with built in harnesses, when one of us goes forward. In addition, I installed low hand rails on the saloon cabin top starboard and port this spring as we motored down the AICW to the Bahamas. We got over not having a stay to grab on to and were very comfortable in the few 9 foot seas we were not able to avoid.
Please keep in touch with me about George Herchenroether’s response, and I will share any new knowledge I acquire about rigging the asymmetric.
John Ernst
Hertford, NC (previously, Glen Head, LI, NY)
1992 F45
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
Sorry to have to
not responded sooner.
Re the subject
of a larger jib and genniker
The expert as
usual is Paul Dennis. He did all of
our work.
First you raise the jib halyard box about 8 feet. This entails a new box being installed and the old hole being reinforced. Now both the genniker and jib halyards are raised.
Then you extend
the bow sprit.
You can do this extravagantly or simply, but the result is about a two foot extention of the tack.
You will need a
longer camber spar or you could go to roller furling as part of this.
We also added
running backstays with two positions on deck.
The jib
dimension becomes about 1/3 larger (way more powerful) and the genniker is
about 20% larger.
We mounted sheet
winches aft of the cockpit coamings and have snatch blocks on the same deck eyes
installed for the backstays. We run
with the backstay in the forward position with the genniker and aft eye being used for the snatch blocks.
I don’t know if this is how the factory would have done
it, but we are most pleased. See
attached pic.
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile
Attachment: (image/jpeg) image001.jpg [not stored]
Attachment: (image/jpeg) image002.jpg [not stored]
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
Re the rig of
the F45.
I agree with
John’s points and we too use a similar jackline system.
But the boat is so easy to handle. The power winch and lead of the lines is very well done.
We added the
Tide Marine Strong track which removes all friction in
hoisting or dousing. She comes down
like a rock.
The standard
lazyjacks do not catch the leech well, so adding one more at the end of the
boom solves that.
The boat is slow
in light winds without the genniker.
With it, light winds become very pleasureable. We are surprised at the power of the
genniker. Ours is a North 1.5 ounce
and can be used up to 20 knots. The snuffer makes dousing and hoisting a
reasonable task, but wraps are common until you get your technique down pat.
An article in
SAIL in 2004 showed in great detail how to handle the
North genniker.
Regards,
Herk and Milly
F45, GLORY
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile
Posted by JoanJohn@… (JoanJohn@…)
Thanks very much George. That helps a lot. I will have paul Dennis working on Destiny this fall for the running back stays. I’m not too interested in converting to larger foresail, esp with the bow sprit.
But we’ll see…at the moment, we are inclined to go with the Doyle Asymmetric, for which they recommend a foot two feet longer than the boat’s j measurment. Maybe we’ll sail with that this summer, and then reconsider all options in the fall when Paul has the boat for the winter.
As we speak, Doyle is also converting our main to loose foot for their bolt roped stack-pack arrangement. They have our main and jib (both c.1992) for repairs and longevity assessment. (They think 4-5 more years on the main and 2-3 on the jib. Hopefully, we’ll still be sailing then and can enjoy new sails!)
Regards,
John Ernst
PS - Where do you winter Glory? And where is she now?
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
John
Glory has
wintered happily at Brewers Sakonnett in Porstmouth. Dave Rodriguez is a terrific manager. Very flexible, cool handed
and knowledgeable. Beats NEB, and others by a long shot.
Glory is now
seriously for sale, without a broker.
Have two inquiries, and one very serious. Health issues force this. Otherwise, we would continue with Glory for
years.
Regards,
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
Agree pretty
much with these comments.
We mounted our
winches aft of the coaming (see pic).
The genniker sheet passes through a turning block on deck to the winch
and through a cam cleat to the helm.
Helmsman can easily blow the genniker from there if necessary.
On deck storage is little to none. Over the years we
have learned how to use the stbd lazerette efficiently and we carry less “in
case of” stuff. Considered the
arch, but prefer the davits (Kato with crossbar).
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile
Attachment: (image/jpeg) Img0287.JPG [not stored]
Posted by sailorray4493 (ray.wolf@…>)
Reed,
We have F 45 # 30, a 1991 model. In 1998 the previous owner
modified the sail plan. We have a leisure furl roller furling boom,
and a roller furling headsail (with two running back-stays). We
also have a brand new never used spinaker that I hope to get rigged
this summer.
We have two winches on the cockpit coaming, just aft of the helm.
The angle of the sheets to the winches could be better, and on one
side the winch handle hits the bimini brace. Both of which can be
easily fixed. If you send me your e-mail address I will send you
photos of the winch installation. We never had the self tending
jib, so most likely do not know what we are missing. I like to have
sheets to crank when tacking, it keeps me involved!!!
We bought our boat last fall. I too had concerns about the rig, as
our plans will have us roaming as far south as S. America.
Everything I could find says it is a stout rig, and not to worry,
and I did a lot of research, talking to owners in the US and
Europe. Having sailed it for 6 months, it is joy to handle, as we
sail with only two people almost all of the time. My neighbor has a
taswell 45, and it is a real struggle for the two of them to manage.
My only beefs with the boat are the lack of on-deck storage, and the
limited size of the holding tanks. However, I have found that you
can go below, lay down in that great aft cabin and dream up ways to
manage the storage (I added a stainless steel arch to replace the
small davits, and that has helped). The boat is all but perfect
below decks. I modified our plumbing system, installing macerator’s
to both holding tanks so I can pump the tanks out when offshore. I
did not want to end every weekend looking for a pump out station
that was working.
I have done a fair amount of work to our energy systems, let me know
if you want details. The one constant that I have found is every
person who works on the boat marvels over how well they were made,
and how well all of the systems are put together.
Ray
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “rersk” <rersk@y…> wrote:
George,
I'm looking at the possibility of buying a 1991 F45.
Currently
my wife and I are sailing a Cape Dory 31 Cutter and have cruised
her
from Maine to the Bahamas. We’re looking to go farther and faster
in more comfort. It seems to me that sail choices on the stock
F45
are limited, and I can see the good uses for a cruising spinnaker,
but the boat doesn’t have sheet winches on the coaming. How do
you
sheet your geniker? Also you refer to enlarging the jib. Did you
retain the camber spar? Mark Edwards showed us the boat, and he’s
a
very fast talker and a good salesman, so it’s hard to sort out the
hype from reality. We’re bowled over by the excellence of the
interior design, but the strange sail plan and relatively
unprotected deck areas give us the willies. Any commentary would
be
greatly appreciated.Thanks, Reed
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “George E.
Herchenroether”
<g.herk@c…> wrote:John
Run, don’t walk to North Sails and get one.
Ours has expanded our experience significantly. In Maine last
year, we used
it daily. Have a 1.5 ounce red white and blue sail. North
service was
perfect.
Our jib is enlarged by 1/3, so the halyard point for ours makes
our gennaker
somewhat larger than a stock F45. I also recommend that.Installation is a no brainer. Using it requires several sets
and
douses to
get it right, but the performance is terrific.We store it on deck in the super bag they supply. The snuffer
is
brilliant
in design and use.George E. Herchenroether
4 Bush St
Newport, RI 02840401.847.2028
401.338.5329 mobile
Posted by George E. Herchenroether (g.herk@…>)
One more comment
on the mast.
About three
years ago an F45 was under a bridge and the operator
brought the bridge down on the mast. The
boat responded by going decks awash, but otherwise popped out from under the
bridge and the only damage was the mast top instruments.
George
E. Herchenroether
4
Bush St
Newport, RI 02840
401.847.2028
401.338.5329
mobile