Posted by merliseclyde (clyde@…>)
We are thinking about getting a 10 year old Freedom 35. Any known
problems or things to look out for? We are going to have a
survey/test sail this week.
Posted by asilverman@… (asilverman@…)
I am also looking at similar F-35. Let me know which one you are looking at and we can compare notes. Contact me off list at asilverman@…
Alan Silverman
South Haven, MI
“merliseclyde” <clyde@…>
08/11/2004 06:55 PM
Please respond to freedomyachts2003
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
cc:
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 35
We are thinking about getting a 10 year old Freedom 35. Any known
problems or things to look out for? We are going to have a
survey/test sail this week.
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Posted by Larry R. Linhart (larrylinhart@…>)
I own a Freedom 35 with the roller furling jib. I am considering installing a Hoyt Jib Boom (as opposed to a whisker pole) to improve downwind sailing. Has anyone installed one on the Freedom 35? I’m mainly concerned with the Jib Boom interfering with opening the anchor locker. Any experience?
Larry Linhart
Posted by Diane & Bob (oxymoron114@…>)
We have been off the water since 1988 and are now both retired.
The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use on
Lake Champlain.
If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would you be
kind enough to let us know.
TIA.
Bob & Diane
Posted by Mike Kovacic (sailslakemichigan@…>)
Diane & Bob,How about a 1988 36 with a platform extension. I am the second owner and it has always been in fresh water. Here is an exterior pic…be glad to send more if there is interest on your part.Mike kovacic@…Diane & Bob <oxymoron114@…> wrote: We have been off the water since 1988 and are now both retired.The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use on Lake Champlain.If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would you be kind enough to let us know.TIA.Bob & Diane__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
My F-33 Cat ketch is currently on lake champlain. Its not for sail but if your
around Burlington or Shelburne let me know and we can meet for a sail if you
like. I know there’s an F-35 for sale on the lake. You can find it at boats.com
I think or directy at Bruce Hill Yacht Sales Shelburne Vermont.
Alan F-33 Hull#51 SEAPR
Quoting Mike Kovacic <sailslakemichigan@…>:
Diane & Bob,
How about a 1988 36 with a platform extension. I am the second owner
and it has always been in fresh water. Here is an exterior pic…be
glad to send more if there is interest on your part.Mike
kovacic@…Diane & Bob <oxymoron114@…> wrote: We have been off the water since
1988 and are now both retired.The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use on
Lake Champlain.If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would you be
kind enough to let us know.TIA.
Bob & Diane
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Posted by Diane & Bob (oxymoron114@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kusinitz
<akusinitz@y…> wrote:
My F-33 Cat ketch is currently on lake champlain. Its not for sail
but if your
around Burlington or Shelburne let me know and we can meet for a
sail if you
like. I know there’s an F-35 for sale on the lake. You can find it
at boats.com
I think or directy at Bruce Hill Yacht Sales Shelburne Vermont.
Alan F-33 Hull#51 SEAPR
Alan: That’s very nice of you. We will email you if we get over that
way.
We were at the shipyard earlier this week and took a look at the F-
35 and would have seriously considered the boat if it didn’t have
6’6" draft. It is in great condition.
Thanks again.
Diane P.
Posted by f35sail (s.goward@…>)
Diane&Bob:
You should checkout Yachtworld. We just completed the purchase of an
F35. This spring there are at least 15 listed on the east coast. One
in Connecticut has just dropped their price substantially. Good time
to be looking for such a fine boat.
Good luck
S&S
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Diane & Bob”
<oxymoron114@y…> wrote:
We have been off the water since 1988 and are now both retired.
The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use on
Lake Champlain.If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would
you be
kind enough to let us know.TIA.
Bob & Diane
Posted by aiclarke2004 (aiclarke2004@…>)
Dear Diane & Bob,
We currently have a beautiful 1995 Freedom 35 for sale in Salem,
MA. We have owned and loved her for five years, spoiling her with
all the coveted upgrades and pampering her with professional
maintenance and heated, indoor winter storage. She can be viewed on
both yachtworld.com and boats.com. Our broker’s name, address and
phone number is listed on both sites, but if we can personally
answer any questions, please feel free to contact us.
Good luck and we hope to hear back from you,
Alice & Tim
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Diane & Bob”
<oxymoron114@y…> wrote:
We have been off the water since 1988 and are now both retired.
The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use
on
Lake Champlain.If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would
you be
kind enough to let us know.TIA.
Bob & Diane
Posted by Fred Molden (fredmolden@…>)
The F35 started production in 1993 and was revised as customer inputs were
received. Some of the early changes included lockers for sheets and lines
in the cockpit coaming and drainage scuppers in the side decks. Just FYI.
We have owned our 1996 F35, Volant, for the past 7 years and have thought
about upgrading to a 40/40 or F45 but this boat just suits our needs for a
one/ two couple boat capable of single handing and traveling from Florida to
Maine. Considering wintering in the Bahamas next year.
Fred Molden
sv Volant
----- Original Message -----
From: “f35sail” <s.goward@…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:21 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 35
\
Diane&Bob:
You should checkout Yachtworld. We just completed the purchase of an
F35. This spring there are at least 15 listed on the east coast. One
in Connecticut has just dropped their price substantially. Good time
to be looking for such a fine boat.Good luck
S&S
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Diane & Bob”
<oxymoron114@y…> wrote:We have been off the water since 1988 and are now both retired.
The boat of choice is a Freedom 3, shoal draft which we will use on
Lake Champlain.If anyone knows/hears of one for sale in decent condition, would
you be
kind enough to let us know.TIA.
Bob & Diane
Yahoo! Groups Links
Posted by Alfred Roberts (lab2doodle@…>)
I’m off to look at a 1995 Freedom 35 tomorrow. It looks good on papaer. It has a wing keel that I’m not to excited about. Has anyone ever sailed the 6’6" keel versus the wing? I would think that the wing will not perform as well to windward.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Posted by Gary Johnston (gnj@…>)
There is a lot of difference between the 6’6" and the wing keel particularly up wind. I have sailed both and would always go with the deep keel if your water can handle it. The big difference is up wind including beam reaching. I have sailed a 35 for 12 years with deep keel and swear the difference is so great they do not feel like the same boat. In the next 2 weeks there will be a 1993 updated to 1994 deep keel on the market in Oriental, NC and priced to sell.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Roberts
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 35
I’m off to look at a 1995 Freedom 35 tomorrow. It looks good on papaer. It has a wing keel that I’m not to excited about. Has anyone ever sailed the 6’6" keel versus the wing? I would think that the wing will not perform as well to windward.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 1/5/2006
Posted by Fred Molden (fredmolden@…>)
I sail a F35 with wing keel and have been in ugly weather (Gulf Stream @ 40kts on the nose) and the boat performed very well. I have also traveled the ICW from Cape May NJ to St Augustine FL without running aground. My home port is the Annapolis area and the shoal draft opens up many remote little places to both sail and drop anchor that a 6 ft keel would not allow. In talking with Mark Edwards several years ago he felt that the wing keel provided lift as well as a shoal draft. He commented on seeing the F35 sailing a lower angle but still lifting over a boat ahead, I don’t know the particulars. I have not sailed the deep keel but would expect a better performance, at least if he water is deep.
Best of luck, a fantastic boat deep or shoal draft.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Roberts
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 35
I’m off to look at a 1995 Freedom 35 tomorrow. It looks good on papaer. It has a wing keel that I’m not to excited about. Has anyone ever sailed the 6’6" keel versus the wing? I would think that the wing will not perform as well to windward.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Whoa, There is a difference of a few degrees only to windward but in ten years of cruising 6 mo. of the year it makes little difference. If one was racing one would choose a different type of boat. Offshore, I found that to keep my crew from being deathly sick I would have to fall off so much that any old full keel boat could have done as well. However 6 foot 6inches of draught will make it difficult to cruise and secure a decent anchoring spot in some areas, the Bahamas and Florida in particular to the extent that any boat over 5 foot draught is a difficult sell here. I cruised two boats with six three and six five, before loading them up with stores and it will even keep you out of marinas and fuel stops and passes. The intracoastal has many 6 foot shallow spots in the channel. I have also had two vessels of less than 5 feet and would not consider any thing more. There are
SOOOOOO many boats out there now anchoring is problematic, shallow areas are the only ones available i.e.less than 4ft 6in. Should you choose to do NY direct to the Virgins and bypass the east coast then you would be ok. On the US West coast draught is not a problem, but even 70 foot Deerfoots try to keep there draught less than 6 ft 6in. Big reason why catamarans are so popular, all are shoal draught by monohull standards. Andre. Gary Johnston <gnj@…> wrote: There is a lot of difference between the 6’6" and the wing keel particularly up wind. I have sailed both and would always go with the deep keel if your water can handle it. The big difference is up wind including beam reaching.
I have sailed a 35 for 12 years with deep keel and swear the difference is so great they do not feel like the same boat. In the next 2 weeks there will be a 1993 updated to 1994 deep keel on the market in Oriental, NC and priced to sell. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Roberts To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 35 I’m off to look at a 1995 Freedom 35 tomorrow. It looks good on papaer. It has a wing keel that I’m not to excited about. Has anyone ever sailed the 6’6" keel versus the wing? I would think that the wing will not perform as well to windward. Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 1/5/2006
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
Posted by seychellois_lib (seychellois_lib@…>)
I own a 30 with the shoal keel. Loaded I draw about 4.5 feet. I’m
located on the West Coast (Bay area and Delta) Frankly I did not think
too much about the draft when I bought the boat but I thank God I have
the shoal. I wouldn’t be able to go many of the places I do if I had
even another foot of draft.
Granted most of my sailing is in the Bay and Delta where shallow
anchorages are very common. But I just don’t see a few degrees of
windward performance as an issue unless you are racing, which I don’t.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette
<andrelaviolette@y…> wrote:
Whoa,
There is a difference of a few degrees only to windward but in ten
years of cruising 6 mo. of the year it makes little difference. If
one was racing one would choose a different type of boat.
Offshore, I found that to keep my crew from being deathly sick I
would have to fall off so much that any old full keel boat could have
done as well.
However 6 foot 6inches of draught will make it difficult to cruise
and secure a decent anchoring spot in some areas, the Bahamas and
Florida in particular to the extent that any boat over 5 foot draught
is a difficult sell here. I cruised two boats with six three and six
five, before loading them up with stores and it will even keep you
out of marinas and fuel stops and passes. The intracoastal has many 6
foot shallow spots in the channel. I have also had two vessels of less
than 5 feet and would not consider any thing more. There are SOOOOOO
many boats out there now anchoring is problematic, shallow areas are
the only ones available i.e.less than 4ft 6in. Should you choose to
do NY direct to the Virgins and bypass the east coast then you would
be ok. On the US West coast draught is not a problem, but even 70 foot
Deerfoots try to keep there draught less than 6 ft 6in. Big reason why
catamarans are so popular, all are shoal draught by monohull standards.Andre.
Gary Johnston <gnj@p…> wrote:
There is a lot of difference between the 6’6" and the wing
keel particularly up wind. I have sailed both and would always go with
the deep keel if your water can handle it. The big difference is up
wind including beam reaching. I have sailed a 35 for 12 years with
deep keel and swear the difference is so great they do not feel like
the same boat. In the next 2 weeks there will be a 1993 updated to
1994 deep keel on the market in Oriental, NC and priced to sell.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Roberts
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 35I’m off to look at a 1995 Freedom 35 tomorrow. It looks good on
papaer. It has a wing keel that I’m not to excited about. Has anyone
ever sailed the 6’6" keel versus the wing? I would think that the
wing will not perform as well to windward.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
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Posted by jsailjeo (jsailjeo@…>)
I’m looking for a Freedom 35. Any suggestions? I think there are 13 on
the market. Any thoughts on which examples are better?
Thanks,
John
Posted by sodaksparrowhawk (sodaksparrowhawk@…>)
John, please email staylo"at"hickorytech.net
Thanks
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “jsailjeo” <jsailjeo@…>
wrote:
I’m looking for a Freedom 35. Any suggestions? I think there are 13
on
the market. Any thoughts on which examples are better?Thanks,
John
Posted by ptecca63 (paul.tecca@…>)
Hi John,
I am just completing my search and purchase of a 1993 F35 (we close
on 12-Mar-2007). I live in the North East US (Boston) and sail out
of Rhode Island. I looked at a number of F35s in the area and can
tell you about two F35s in my area that I have seen and that I think
are still on the market:
-
Etoile - A 1996 wing keel in Salem Mass. She is listed on
YachtWorld. This one is in nice shape. Stored in doors at a high-
end place in Salem. The electronics need updating and the windless
looked suspect. But all-in-all a very clean F35. I didn’t go for
it because I wanted a deep draft version. -
Graphon - A 1994 deep draft in East Greenwhich RI. This one is
for sale by the owner. You can get a look at the boat on its web
site: http://www.freedom-yacht.com/. I thought the boat was in good
shape. It was #2 on my short list.
Also, I was told to beware of the 1999 F35 in Annapolis MD
named “Thumper”. It is listed on YachtWorld. I spoke with someone
who travelled from New Hampshire to MD to look at it a year ago.
Apparently it was not in great shape and had some issues. I
remember him saying it had a terrible foul smell down below, like
the holding tank had leaked or something. It was bad enough that
the guy spent very little time on her despite making a long journey
from NH. But, it has been on the market a long time, so if you are
a bargain hunter willing to take on a project, it might be an option.
I have spent the last 6 months researching and looking at F35s, as
well as many other boats. If you’d like to talk and compare notes
I’d be happy to.
Regards,
Paul
Posted by ptecca63 (paul.tecca@…>)
Hi Alfred,
I am just completing the purchase of a 1993 F35 and had the same
concern that you did. Most of the available F35s in my area were
wing keels and I really wanted a deep draft for performance
reasons.
But I really was curious to know how much difference it would make.
In may search for an answer I managed to make contact with the
former Chief Designer at Pedrick Yacht Designs who worked on the F35
design team. His name is T.J. Perrotti. Here is his reply to my e-
mail asking about the performance aspects of the F35:
It’s been a few years since I’ve given much technical thought to the
Freedom 35, but I’ve enjoying being prompted to do so again via your
email request. I was heavily involved in her design during my
tenure as Chief Designer at Pedrick’s. All in all, I think the 35
is a great boat, especially for cruising needs, and I’m pleased to
hear of your interest.
I think there’s approximately a 2’ draft difference in the fin vs.
wing keel versions – 6.5’ vs. 4.5’. As best as I can recall, the
VPP polars for the boat had the fin keel sailing upwind at about
45.5 deg TWA, vs. about 48.0 deg TWA for the wing keel boat.
Additionally, the fin keel sailed at about 0.1 knots faster boat
speed. Coupling that with the TWA difference, I expect that you’d
see about 0.25 knots upwind VMG difference between the
configurations.
If I were in your shoes (sailing around Narragansett Bay), I’d opt
for the fin version with the improved performance. A 6.5’ (nominal)
draft won’t keep you out of many places around here. And the added
stability (about 4% extra with the fin keel) will help your sail-
carrying ability and comfort.
As for the wider beam of the 35, you’re right that that was
predominantly to offer a spacious interior. Since 1992, many
productions boats have gone down this same path. There’s some
upwind performance loss (higher resistance) and seakeeping
detriments (pitching motion) with a wider beam boat, but that’s
ultimately the compromise one pays for the extra interior volume.
Conversely, downwind performance in any sort of a following sea is
improved, with some surfing ability.
As for the carbon, freestanding rig of the Freedom 35 … Some
people love freestanding rigs, some people hate them. For a
cruising sailor, I think it makes good sense. You’ll have a
powerful mainsail, a self-tacking small jib, and no rigging to get
in the way of your comfort on deck. But there are limitations –
headstay tension is never as “powered up” as a conventional rig.
Some 35 owners have outfitted the boat with a full (overlapping)
genoa. This works fine for cruising. But apples-to-apples, you
won’t keep pace with a full-genoa on a boat with a conventional rig
and more headstay tension / sail shape control.
Good luck with your decision. I hope these comments help.
T.J. Perrotti
I hope this helps!
Paul
Posted by willie doyle (williedoylemom@…>)
Dear John, We bought a great Freedom in RI last year and trucked it to Florida. The only reason we did not buy the one in Sarasota - which is still on the market - is that the R.I. boat was really fully loaded and had a slip paid for through the whole summer. It was neat to learn all about our “new” boat on waters that we’ll probably never sail again. We live in Florida and the Sarasota boat would have made great sense but the thought of visitng Cuttyhunk, Newport and Block Island in our own boat was too tempting. The Sarasota boat, “Liberty” was clean and in very good shape, sailed well and had some nice add ons. We did not have her hauled as we found the R.I. boat and decided to go with it for the reasons above. But I think that Liberty is definitely a good boat and worth a look. You did not say where you lived. Is that a factor? You might enjoy sailing around Florida. We certianly do. The west coast has super spots for
crusing. And it’s a good hoping off spot for Mexico, the Bahamas, the Keys, etc. We are taking our new 35, Vesper, off on her first extended cruise tomorrow - from St. Petersburg to Captiva and back. It’s a perfect boat for us - roomy enough for two couples (and even a couple of grandkids added in), a good “machine for living” and sails wonderfully well. You’ll love whatever one you decide on. Good luck with your hunt. Faithjsailjeo <jsailjeo@…> wrote: I’m looking for a
Freedom 35. Any suggestions? I think there are 13 on the market. Any thoughts on which examples are better?Thanks,John
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