Freedom 42 -- information requested

Posted by Richard Solomon (rsolomon2@…>)

I’ve just sold our Valiant 32 and am looking for the last boat. We’re
interested in a F42 which looks very nice based on the Yachtworld
listing. Before traveling to see her, I sure would appreciate hearing
from Freedom owners about:

  1. teak decks: are they screwed down or glued? If screwed down, any
    history of them leaking?
  2. How many F42s were made? I’m guessing not many because my search
    of your messages for “F42” or “Freedom 42” didn’t turn up any. Is
    that a cause of concern? For example, there’s a terrific group of
    Valiant owners for each size built who are readily available for
    feedback, advice, and whatever; I’d sure want that for any boat that
    we buy.
  3. How do they sail, in terms of: light air, motion comfort in a
    seaway, ease of reefing with that big main, pointing?
  4. Any construction or design problems particular to this boat,
    such as blisters, hull-deck joint leaking, etc. It seems that most
    have some “achilles heel”, and I figure this one must have its own
    problems. But, OTOH, it may not!

Finally, I’m sold on the “technology” of the rig and the overall
design. Mull has done a great job; we chartered a F30 once, and loved
it. So, this just might be the one…

Thanks, in advance, for any information you might have.

Cheers, Richard Solomon

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Hi Richard,
the Freedom 42 is the Freedom 45 without the sugarscoop. I looked at
the ads for that 42 as well - it looks like the finish is damaged in
the aft cabin starting on the starboard side and going around the
back toward the port side - maybe sun damage?

I think I remember reading somewhere that because of the lack of a
swim platform, the 42’s waterline is slightly shorter than the 45’s.
It also may impact the ease of getting aboard, especially on a
mooring. The 45 has a lovely landing deck. Overall, it looks like a
great boat, though.

Someone will address all of your questions, but I can help with a few
of them. Construction-wise, TPI built these with vinylester resins,
which are more resistant to blistering than polyester. I’ve looked at
the bottoms of two Freedom 45’s, and they looked as fair as the day
they came out of the factory.

The motion on the boat, I find, is very forgiving. I’m biased by my
Freedom 40 Cat Ketch, which I think has one of the best motions of
any boat I’ve been on, but I was pleased by how well behaved the 45
is in a seaway.

Reefing, unless it was changed by the owner, is single-line reefing
which means that - in theory - you shouldn’t have to leave the
comfort of the cockpit to reef down that big, big main. You also have
the benefit of an electric halyard winch, which believe me makes a
big difference. The 45 I was on had single-line for both reefs in the
main, so again - it should be pretty easy to reef.

My guess is that in truly light airs, she’ll need a little help, but
in my limited experience sailing one, it was apparent that she is a
boat that wants to sail, and once she’s moving, she stays moving.

In the standard 45’s (and so I assume in the 42’s as well), there
were a couple design flaws. The one that I think people fix first is
the two-part main hatch, which can be a source of frustration and
leaks. Paul Dennis has a refit for that.

Can’t speak to the teak decks, but I’m sure someone on the board can.
That 42 seems pretty well appointed, and it’s been on the market for
a while. It’s probably worth a look. you can come back and give us a
report :wink:

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

I’ve just sold our Valiant 32 and am looking for the last boat.
We’re
interested in a F42 which looks very nice based on the Yachtworld
listing. Before traveling to see her, I sure would appreciate
hearing
from Freedom owners about:

  1. teak decks: are they screwed down or glued? If screwed down,
    any
    history of them leaking?
  2. How many F42s were made? I’m guessing not many because my
    search
    of your messages for “F42” or “Freedom 42” didn’t turn up any. Is
    that a cause of concern? For example, there’s a terrific group of
    Valiant owners for each size built who are readily available for
    feedback, advice, and whatever; I’d sure want that for any boat
    that
    we buy.
  3. How do they sail, in terms of: light air, motion comfort in a
    seaway, ease of reefing with that big main, pointing?
  4. Any construction or design problems particular to this boat,
    such as blisters, hull-deck joint leaking, etc. It seems that most
    have some “achilles heel”, and I figure this one must have its own
    problems. But, OTOH, it may not!

Finally, I’m sold on the “technology” of the rig and the overall
design. Mull has done a great job; we chartered a F30 once, and
loved
it. So, this just might be the one…

Thanks, in advance, for any information you might have.

Cheers, Richard Solomon

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

Several F-36 owners have added a swim scoop making the boat into a 38.
The same may be possible for the 42 to make it a 45.

Interesting transition from a Valiant to a Freedom. Guess you must want
a bit more interior volume and comfort.

Posted by Richard Solomon (rsolomon2@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:

Several F-36 owners have added a swim scoop making the boat into a

The same may be possible for the 42 to make it a 45.

Interesting transition from a Valiant to a Freedom. Guess you must
want
a bit more interior volume and comfort.>

I’ve been told that the F45 is the same as the F42, with the addition
of the 3’ swim scoop added to the stern, that F42 I’m interested in was
the first and only F42 made, because they decided to add the swim scoop
with hull #2. I’m curious whether the added scoop interferes with a
wind vane.

And, yes, my wife and I are definitely moving up in size and comfort.
We want to hang out more in our beautiful marina and she’s partial to
the aft cabin with a centerline bed. We’re also looking at an Endeavor
42, Peterson 44, etc. I also want design and hull construction intended
for ocean passages, and the Freedom seems OK in that regard. Do you
know of Freedom owners who have circumnavigated?

Thanks for the response; it’s good to hear that the owners’ group is
active and helpful.

Richard

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

Richard,

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen more than one Freedom 42 so I’m not sure if
there was only one made. Are you looking at “Free Spirit” or another
boat?
There have been at least a few circumnavigations with the 42/45 that
I recall.
I’d stay away from the Endeavor 42.
KP 44 is a great boat. You couldn’t go wrong with that either. Lots
more hulls to choose from as well.

If you’re seriously considering an extended cruise I’d also look at a
44 ketch. The ketch is a bit more versatile offering a variety of
sail configurations to match conditions and has a lot more horsepower
reaching and downwind. You can also fly a mizzen staysail and at
least one 44 (Frog Kiss) has been outfitted with a blade headsail for
upwind work. Speaking of Frog Kiss it’s probably still on the market
somewhere on the east coast or Caribbean. It’s won the Bermuda One-
Two and had a knowledgeable caring owner for many years.

When we had our 39 Express ketch we occasionally buddy boated with a
36/38. The 36/38 definitely outperformed us upwind but as soon as we
bore off the speed difference was quite noticeable. Very few cruising
boats can touch the cat ketches off the wind. In a well sailed 44
ketch you’d practically have to drag a drogue for a KP 44 to keep up.


\

I’ve been told that the F45 is the same as the F42, with the
addition
of the 3’ swim scoop added to the stern, that F42 I’m interested in
was
the first and only F42 made, because they decided to add the swim
scoop
with hull #2. I’m curious whether the added scoop interferes with a
wind vane.

And, yes, my wife and I are definitely moving up in size and
comfort.
We want to hang out more in our beautiful marina and she’s partial
to
the aft cabin with a centerline bed. We’re also looking at an
Endeavor
42, Peterson 44, etc. I also want design and hull construction
intended
for ocean passages, and the Freedom seems OK in that regard. Do you
know of Freedom owners who have circumnavigated?

Thanks for the response; it’s good to hear that the owners’ group
is
active and helpful.

Richard

Posted by Richard Solomon (rsolomon2@…>)

Hi Dave:
Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego.
Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the broker
that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I
assume you dissed the Endeavour because the build quality of the
Freedom is so much better? I hope so.
You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is from
the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.
Do you have an opinion on the carbon fiber masts on the Freedoms,
especially in terms of longevity? Free Spirit was built in 1988; should
I be concerned about possibly having to replace the mast on my watch if
the sale goes through?
Cheers, Richard

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

Richard,
Congrats on the accepted offer.
Build quality of the Freedom is a lot better than the Endeavour.
There are some other issues with the Endeavour I remember from our
Florida days and subsequent reading. It’s not a boat I’d get too
excited about unless I was buying it for a fraction of resale.

The CF mast should be fine. What you’ll want to check for is any
additional holes that were drilled into the mast. You can’t just just
make a bunch of holes in a CF mast. Sometimes people do though. If
there are extra things installed you’d need someone knowledgeable
about CF masts to evaluate it. Another thing that’s bad for CF masts
is lightning. Chances are if the boat has been in Dago a long time
that it hasn’t been hit. Also check for popped rivets along the luff
track. This is quite common. Replacement rivets should be aluminum,
not stainless. I used to go up my masts 3 or 4 times a year to lube
the tracks and check for popped rivets. We sailed the boat hard so
the rivets did let go from time to time.

One thing you need to realize about any boat in San Diego is that it
probably hasn’t seen much wind. I’ve seen things come apart on
Southern California boats during a delivery or after exposure to SF
Bay sailing. If you are going to be taking the boat north past Pt
Conception make sure your surveyor knows of your plans.

If you are taking the boat north get the fuel tanks cleaned (polished
as they call it) and put in some new filters. Be a great time to
upgrade to dual selectable Racors if the boat doesn’t already have
them. I know of a lot of boats that have had filter problems heading
north. Be sure the mast is securely chocked in the partners and on
the step.

Who are you using for the survey? Hopefully noone recommended by the
broker. As you know Freedoms have cored hulls. TPI did a great job
building them for the most part but there have been some cases if
moisture ingress where thru-hulls weren’t properly installed. You
really want to examine any thru-hull installs that weren’t done by
TPI. Since the decks are balsa cored the usual precautions there
apply as well.

Socal is an expensive place to have any work done. If you have the
time and the ability to supervise work Baja Naval in Ensenada might
be a good place to go. Yard rates are exorbitant by Mexican standards
due to proximity to California but they’re still a lot less than
Socal rates. You need to be there to watch the work being done or
hire a surveyor to monitor the work for you. The same advice holds
true for many yards in the US as well. Tthat’s why I try to do most
of my own work. If I have to be there I might as well do it myself.

There are also a few less expensive yards along the coast in not so
densely populated areas.

If you are bringing the boat north let me know.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

Hi Dave:
Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego.
Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the
broker
that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I
assume you dissed the Endeavour because the build quality of the
Freedom is so much better? I hope so.
You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is
from
the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.
Do you have an opinion on the carbon fiber masts on the Freedoms,
especially in terms of longevity? Free Spirit was built in 1988;
should
I be concerned about possibly having to replace the mast on my
watch if
the sale goes through?
Cheers, Richard

Posted by pdavison237 (pdavison237@…>)

Wow! Congrats on “Free Spirit”!!
She sounds like a wonderful, unique boat.

That was a quick decision, buying a boat you didn’t know, and
haven’t seen, isn’t it?

I’m new to boating;is that how it’s usually done?

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

You can make an offer, sight unseen, contingent on your inspection of
the boat. We did that when we bought our Freedom. No sense wasting
money on travel if the boat might be gone by the time you get there.
Once you look it at it and do a sea trial you can either amend or
revoke your offer.

If you know what you’re after it’s a good way to handle out of town
boats. Otherwise the travel adds up and you’ve wasted your time as well
as the seller/broker’s.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “pdavison237”
<pdavison237@…> wrote:

Wow! Congrats on “Free Spirit”!!
She sounds like a wonderful, unique boat.

That was a quick decision, buying a boat you didn’t know, and
haven’t seen, isn’t it?

I’m new to boating;is that how it’s usually done?

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

Unless this particular F-42 did the 19 Baja Ha-Ha and was named
Chrysalis the theory about it being the only 42 made can be debunked.
I’m almost positive I’ve seen an aft cockpit 42 which would also
indicate more than one 42 made.

It doesn’t matter one way or the other as they are good boats.

Incidentally you can mount a windvane on a swim platform equipped boat.
I helped with one on a Beneteau that has since gone well over 20000
miles. The Sailomat that’s on the F-42 in San Diego can be mounted off
center if needed. That’s a great vane actually. Not sure how well it
works on a center cockpit boat though. That’s a long run and a bunch of
blocks. You could use some low stretch high tech small diamter line and
upgrade the blocks if the thing performs sluggishly. I would ask to see
the vane demo’d on your sea trial. See if it works downwind in lighter
air.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is
from
the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.

Posted by buzz mills (buzndeb@…>)
Richard,
We just bought a Freedom 40/40 in August. My husband was also concerned about the carbon fiber mast so he called the company which manufactured ours (can’t recall the company’s name). He was told there’s been only one failure not due to lightning, rivets, etc. and that was when one unlucky Freedom owner attempted to sail his boat underneath a concrete overpass, without carefully checking the clearance.

The manufacturer also quoted the cost to replace our mast is $30k+. Gulp. But we took the plunge and have been thrilled with our Freedom, having moved up from a Cal 35.

Debbie
s/v Eos
----- Original Message ----From: Richard Solomon <rsolomon2@…>To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:56:56 PMSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 42 – information requested

Hi Dave:Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego. Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the broker that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I assume you dissed the Endeavour because the build quality of the Freedom is so much better? I hope so.You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is from the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.Do you have an opinion on the carbon fiber masts on the Freedoms, especially in terms of longevity? Free Spirit was built in 1988; should I be concerned about possibly having to replace the mast on my watch if the sale goes through?Cheers, Richard

Bored stiff? Loosen up…Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

Price replacing an aluminum mast AND rig of the same length-about the same cost
----- Original Message -----

From: buzz mills
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 42 – information requested




Richard,
We just bought a Freedom 40/40 in August. My husband was also concerned about the carbon fiber mast so he called the company which manufactured ours (can’t recall the company’s name). He was told there’s been only one failure not due to lightning, rivets, etc. and that was when one unlucky Freedom owner attempted to sail his boat underneath a concrete overpass, without carefully checking the clearance.

The manufacturer also quoted the cost to replace our mast is $30k+. Gulp. But we took the plunge and have been thrilled with our Freedom, having moved up from a Cal 35.

Debbie
s/v Eos
----- Original Message ----From: Richard Solomon <rsolomon2@cox.net>To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:56:56 PMSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 42 – information requested

Hi Dave:Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego. Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the broker that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I assume you dissed the Endeavour because the build quality of the Freedom is so much better? I hope so.You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is from the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.Do you have an opinion on the carbon fiber masts on the Freedoms, especially in terms of longevity? Free Spirit was built in 1988; should I be concerned about possibly having to replace the mast on my watch if the sale goes through?Cheers, Richard


Bored stiff? Loosen up…Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Bright Star has not one, but two carbon-fiber masts. They were
originally supporting the standard wishbone-rigged sails… early in
her life she was converted to standard booms and more sail area.
Both masts are still going strong after 27 years. As long as you
don’t smack anything with them, get hit by lightning, or drill a
bunch of holes in it, your mast should last as long as the hull’s
afloat.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

Hi Dave:
Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego.
Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the
broker
that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I
assume you dissed the Endeavour because the build quality of the
Freedom is so much better? I hope so.
You may be right about there being more than one F42; my info is
from
the selling broker and/or seller, so it may not be the last word.
Do you have an opinion on the carbon fiber masts on the
Freedoms,
especially in terms of longevity? Free Spirit was built in 1988;
should
I be concerned about possibly having to replace the mast on my
watch if
the sale goes through?
Cheers, Richard

Posted by Kevin Taylor (kevin683@…>)
Here is a flattering review (2004) of the Hoyt Freedom 32 from Sailing Magazine:http://www.sailingmagazine.net/UBN_1004.htmlWe bought ours last Sept and only got 4 daysails in before having to haul it for winter. The last sail was the first week of October. My brother-in-law and I had it out on Lake Michigan for several hours on a Friday morning. The lake was flat and winds were about 8-12 knots. Even with our less than expert sail trim, we had several spurts of speed over 7 knots.
I’m curious what is the theoretical hull spead for the H32?Anyway, it is our first boat and we are absolutely in love with it. It is perfect for a family of 4 with a 6 and 4 year old. When we go sailing, my wife’s first priority can be tending to the children while I can tend to the boat’s needs quite well with only a little help from her.
–KevinS/V Sway

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Theoretical hullspeed based on a 25.5’ waterline is around 6.7 knots.
Not sure how much the waterline lengthens on a heel on the the 32,
but 7 appears to be pretty close to the top end. Not too shabby.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Kevin Taylor”
<kevin683@…> wrote:

Here is a flattering review (2004) of the Hoyt Freedom 32 from
Sailing
Magazine:
http://www.sailingmagazine.net/UBN_1004.html

We bought ours last Sept and only got 4 daysails in before having
to haul it
for winter. The last sail was the first week of October. My brother-
in-law
and I had it out on Lake Michigan for several hours on a Friday
morning. The
lake was flat and winds were about 8-12 knots. Even with our less
than
expert sail trim, we had several spurts of speed over 7 knots.

I’m curious what is the theoretical hull spead for the H32?

Anyway, it is our first boat and we are absolutely in love with it.
It is
perfect for a family of 4 with a 6 and 4 year old. When we go
sailing, my
wife’s first priority can be tending to the children while I can
tend to the
boat’s needs quite well with only a little help from her.

–Kevin
S/V Sway

Posted by charles (rvflyer@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Richard Solomon”
<rsolomon2@…> wrote:

Hi Dave:
Yes, the boat I’m interested in is Free Spirit, in San Diego.
Actually, more than “interested” because I just heard from the
broker
that our offer has been accepted! We’ll check her out next week. I

Richard,

Did you buy Free Spirit? I see it’s still listed, if you did not buy
her,why?
Can you say what offer they accepted?
I’m thinking off upgrading from my Cheoylee 41, want c/c and Freedom
Yachts interest me.

Thanks
Chuck