Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking
around early carbon masts?
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
If you search the past posting you’ll
see many related to this. Note many people have moved to our new group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOwnersGroup/
where we can limit spam and there are some posting on this there.
Alan
From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of phildowneyuk
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007
3:24 PM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] mast
cracking on f 35 ck
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and
treatmemt of cracking
around early carbon masts?
\
Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is only cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to advised to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner who is handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat” and apply a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of polyester glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to add more glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a manner that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you have experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find anyone with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might just sand through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of coats of resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it may just crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.
On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking
around early carbon masts?
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area
Posted by Dennis Gunn (dutchharborconanicut@…>)
Hello Jay, My wife and I just finished our first season with our 1982 freedom 28 CK. The boat was hauled this week and the masts were pulled so we could bring the boat home. Upon inspecting the masts, I found a good number of horizontal cracks on the reinforced sections where the booms attach to the gooseneck. These cracks did not show up all season and I’m at a loss as to why now. I don’t think the boat yard pulling the masts out had anything to do with it, because the cracks look old. Is it possible that when the masts are standing, they’re weight causes these cracks at the lower part of the mast to close? It would only take less than 1/16 of an inch to do this. I’m trying to figure out how the heck I missed this during the season. More importantly, how serious is this problem and how to approach it? If putting a couple of layers of
fiberglass is the answer, that’s a relatively easy fix. Any and all advise would be appreciated. DennisJay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote: I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If
the cracking is only cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to advised to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner who is handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat” and apply a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of polyester glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to add more glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a manner that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you have experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find anyone with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might just sand through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of coats of resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it may just crack
right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone. On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking around early carbon masts?-- Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Posted by Rick Higgens (higgens@…>)
Dennis, when we bought our 86 F30 last Fall it showed the same cracks
above and below the wide reinforced band, and some seemed rather deep
to me. Since I was in a boatyard in Warren, RI, I had Paul Dennis
look at it and he said they were just cosmetic and were due to the
fact that in the early Freedoms they just used auto body bondo to fare
the edges of the collar. The bondo gets stiff when old and cracks.
Since I had him doing some other mast work while it was out, I had him
repair this as well. The repair consisted of grinding out the old
bondo and filling it back in with a filler that remains flexible, then
taping off and painting the repair. I’m sure he would tell you what
he used to refare the collar if you called him. He’s a great guy and
very helpful (he gets lots of business for his occasional “advice”.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Gunn
<dutchharborconanicut@…> wrote:
Hello Jay,
My wife and I just finished our first season
with our 1982 freedom 28 CK. The boat was hauled this week and the
masts were pulled so we could bring the boat home. Upon inspecting the
masts, I found a good number of horizontal cracks on the reinforced
sections where the booms attach to the gooseneck. These cracks did not
show up all season and I’m at a loss as to why now. I don’t think the
boat yard pulling the masts out had anything to do with it, because
the cracks look old. Is it possible that when the masts are standing,
they’re weight causes these cracks at the lower part of the mast to
close? It would only take less than 1/16 of an inch to do this. I’m
trying to figure out how the heck I missed this during the season.
More importantly, how serious is this problem and how to approach it?
If putting a couple of layers of fiberglass is the answer, that’s a
relatively easy fix. Any and all advise would be appreciated.
Dennis
Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the
cracking is only cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the
professionals I spoke to advised to just leave it alone. The expense
to have them professionally reconditioned is fairly costly, however,
some have said an owner who is handy and somewhat knowledgeable could
sand off the old “mud coat” and apply a new coating and paint. Some
even suggest adding another wrap of polyester glass and resin after
removing the old coating. If you decide to add more glass and resin
you better make certain you support the mast in a manner that prevents
sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new glass and
resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find
anyone with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might just sand through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a
couple of coats of resin and then paint. But
I don’t know if this would even work, it may just crack right away
under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts,
Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote: has
anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
Dennis,I’d follow Rick’s instructions since he has the similar mast boom connection. As for the cracks closing due to the weight when stepped, I doubt this would occur. I have wishbones so I do not have the boom connection point that you and Rick have, so go with Rick, his solution sounds good to me.
On 10/17/07, Rick Higgens <higgens@…> wrote:
Dennis, when we bought our 86 F30 last Fall it showed the same cracks
above and below the wide reinforced band, and some seemed rather deep
to me. Since I was in a boatyard in Warren, RI, I had Paul Dennis
look at it and he said they were just cosmetic and were due to the
fact that in the early Freedoms they just used auto body bondo to fare
the edges of the collar. The bondo gets stiff when old and cracks.
Since I had him doing some other mast work while it was out, I had him
repair this as well. The repair consisted of grinding out the old
bondo and filling it back in with a filler that remains flexible, then
taping off and painting the repair. I’m sure he would tell you what
he used to refare the collar if you called him. He’s a great guy and
very helpful (he gets lots of business for his occasional “advice”.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Gunn
<dutchharborconanicut@…> wrote:
Hello Jay,
My wife and I just finished our first season
with our 1982 freedom 28 CK. The boat was hauled this week and the
masts were pulled so we could bring the boat home. Upon inspecting the
masts, I found a good number of horizontal cracks on the reinforced
sections where the booms attach to the gooseneck. These cracks did not
show up all season and I’m at a loss as to why now. I don’t think the
boat yard pulling the masts out had anything to do with it, because
the cracks look old. Is it possible that when the masts are standing,
they’re weight causes these cracks at the lower part of the mast to
close? It would only take less than 1/16 of an inch to do this. I’m
trying to figure out how the heck I missed this during the season.
More importantly, how serious is this problem and how to approach it?
If putting a couple of layers of fiberglass is the answer, that’s a
relatively easy fix. Any and all advise would be appreciated.
Dennis
Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the
cracking is only cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the
professionals I spoke to advised to just leave it alone. The expense
to have them professionally reconditioned is fairly costly, however,
some have said an owner who is handy and somewhat knowledgeable could
sand off the old “mud coat” and apply a new coating and paint. Some
even suggest adding another wrap of polyester glass and resin after
removing the old coating. If you decide to add more glass and resin
you better make certain you support the mast in a manner that prevents
sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new glass and
resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find
anyone with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might just sand through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a
couple of coats of resin and then paint. But
I don’t know if this would even work, it may just crack right away
under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts,
Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote: has
anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.
I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by laurens visser (laurensvisser@…>)
“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote: Jay,I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth and sprayed with Awlgrip. I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a flexible outer shell that does not
crack.Michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is only> cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to advised> to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally> reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner who is> handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat” and apply> a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of polyester> glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to add more> glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a manner> that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new> glass and resin hardens.
No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you have> experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find anyone> with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might just sand> through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of coats of> resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it may just> crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie> Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.> > On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:> >> > has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking> > around early carbon masts?> >> > > >> > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay
Area> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
Michel,Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat. It cracks because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the same flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not Carbon. According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon fiber masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass and polyester resin.
By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks and how was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <
michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.
I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area
Posted by Dennis Gunn (dutchharborconanicut@…>)
Hello Jay and Rick, Thanks for your advice. I only live about 45 minutes away from Warren, R.I.,so I’ll be stopping up to see Paul Dennis in a couple of weeks. Thanks Again, DennisJay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote: Dennis,I’d follow Rick’s instructions since he has the similar mast boom connection. As
for the cracks closing due to the weight when stepped, I doubt this would occur. I have wishbones so I do not have the boom connection point that you and Rick have, so go with Rick, his solution sounds good to me. On 10/17/07, Rick Higgens <higgens@…com> wrote: Dennis, when we bought our 86 F30 last Fall it showed the same cracksabove and below the wide reinforced band, and some seemed rather deepto me. Since I was in a boatyard in Warren, RI, I had Paul Dennislook at it and he said they were just cosmetic and were due to thefact that in the early Freedoms they just used auto body bondo to farethe edges of the collar. The bondo gets stiff when old and cracks. Since
I had him doing some other mast work while it was out, I had himrepair this as well. The repair consisted of grinding out the oldbondo and filling it back in with a filler that remains flexible, thentaping off and painting the repair. I’m sure he would tell you whathe used to refare the collar if you called him. He’s a great guy andvery helpful (he gets lots of business for his occasional “advice”. — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Gunn<dutchharborconanicut@…> wrote:>> Hello Jay,> My wife and I just finished our first seasonwith our 1982 freedom 28 CK. The boat was hauled this week and themasts were pulled so we could bring the boat home. Upon inspecting themasts, I found a good number of horizontal cracks on the reinforcedsections where the booms attach to the gooseneck. These cracks
did notshow up all season and I’m at a loss as to why now. I don’t think theboat yard pulling the masts out had anything to do with it, becausethe cracks look old. Is it possible that when the masts are standing,they’re weight causes these cracks at the lower part of the mast toclose? It would only take less than 1/16 of an inch to do this. I’mtrying to figure out how the heck I missed this during the season.More importantly, how serious is this problem and how to approach it?If putting a couple of layers of fiberglass is the answer, that’s arelatively easy fix. Any and all advise would be appreciated.> Dennis> Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:> I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If thecracking is only cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all theprofessionals I spoke to advised to just leave it alone. The expenseto have them professionally reconditioned is fairly
costly, however,some have said an owner who is handy and somewhat knowledgeable couldsand off the old “mud coat” and apply a new coating and paint. Someeven suggest adding another wrap of polyester glass and resin afterremoving the old coating. If you decide to add more glass and resinyou better make certain you support the mast in a manner that preventssagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when the new glass andresin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless you haveexperience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot findanyone with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought Imight just sand through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add acouple of coats of resin and then paint. But> I don’t know if this would even work, it may just crack right awayunder sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts,Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone. >
On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote: hasanyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of cracking > around early carbon masts?> > > > > > > > > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay Area > > > > __________________________________________________> Do You Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com>-- Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
I agree with Michel. Having seen the
laminate its mostly carbon fiber with a wrap of cloth over which is the
gelcoat/mud. I spoke with Eric Sponberg who designs carbon fiber masts and was
at Freedom in the late 70s and early 80s. He said the cracking is in the outer
gelcoat/mud at the joints of the cloth wrap and cloth wrap should have been
wider to avoid this. The sole purpose of the cloth wrap is to provide
compression. He did say they used polyester resin back then.
Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michel.capel
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007
6:37 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
mast cracking on f 35 ck
Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel
coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the
professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old
“mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any
curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville,
Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco
Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco
Bay Area
\
Posted by Louis Spitz (aronella@…>)
I have a '94 Freedom 35 sloop with a cf mast, and am afraid of drilling holes into the mast. I want to put some mast steps at the base of the mast to be able to reach the hal
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:36 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
Jay,I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main) and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts. I think most of it is carbon fibre. The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> Michel,> > Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat. It cracks> because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the same> flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not Carbon.> According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon fiber> masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass and> polyester resin.> > By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks and how> was it applied? Has it held up well?> > On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:> >> > Jay,> >> > I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer> > layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then> > the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth> > and sprayed with Awlgrip.> >> > I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black> > carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of> > glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a> > flexible outer shell that does not crack.> >> > Michel> >> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.com>,> > “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>> >> > wrote:> > >> > > I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is> > only> > > cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to> > advised> > > to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally> > > reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner> > who is> > > handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat”> > and apply> > > a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of> > polyester> > > glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to> > add more> > > glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a> > manner> > > that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when> > the new> > > glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless> > you have> > > experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find> > anyone> > > with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might> > just sand> > > through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of> > coats of> > > resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it> > may just> > > crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie> > of Wylie> > > Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.> > >> > > On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:> > > >> > > > has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of> > cracking> > > > around early carbon masts?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > → > > Jay Glen ki6jtk> > > s/v Fantasy> > > Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> > > San Francisco Bay Area> > >> >> > > >> > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay Area>
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.22/1111 - Release Date: 11/5/2007 4:36 AM
Posted by Louis Spitz (aronella@…>)
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:36 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
Jay,I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main) and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts. I think most of it is carbon fibre. The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> Michel,> > Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat. It cracks> because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the same> flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not Carbon.> According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon fiber> masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass and> polyester resin.> > By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks and how> was it applied? Has it held up well?> > On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:> >> > Jay,> >> > I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer> > layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then> > the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth> > and sprayed with Awlgrip.> >> > I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black> > carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of> > glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a> > flexible outer shell that does not crack.> >> > Michel> >> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.com>,> > “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>> >> > wrote:> > >> > > I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is> > only> > > cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to> > advised> > > to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally> > > reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner> > who is> > > handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat”> > and apply> > > a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of> > polyester> > > glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to> > add more> > > glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a> > manner> > > that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when> > the new> > > glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless> > you have> > > experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find> > anyone> > > with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might> > just sand> > > through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of> > coats of> > > resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it> > may just> > > crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie> > of Wylie> > > Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.> > >> > > On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:> > > >> > > > has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of> > cracking> > > > around early carbon masts?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > → > > Jay Glen ki6jtk> > > s/v Fantasy> > > Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> > > San Francisco Bay Area> > >> >> > > >> > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay Area>
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.22/1111 - Release Date: 11/5/2007 4:36 AM
Posted by Louis Spitz (aronella@…>)
I have a '94 Freedom 35 sloop,and I am afraid of drilling holes into the carbon fiber. I would like to put some mast steps
at the base of the mast to be able to reach the halyard. How big a hoe is safe to drill/tap?
Thanks,Lou Spitz
F35 #23 ‘Ripple Effect’
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:36 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
Jay,I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main) and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts. I think most of it is carbon fibre. The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> Michel,> > Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat. It cracks> because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the same> flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not Carbon.> According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon fiber> masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass and> polyester resin.> > By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks and how> was it applied? Has it held up well?> > On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:> >> > Jay,> >> > I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black outer> > layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded, then> > the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded smooth> > and sprayed with Awlgrip.> >> > I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black> > carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer of> > glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide a> > flexible outer shell that does not crack.> >> > Michel> >> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.com>,> > “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>> >> > wrote:> > >> > > I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking is> > only> > > cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I spoke to> > advised> > > to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally> > > reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an owner> > who is> > > handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud coat”> > and apply> > > a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap of> > polyester> > > glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide to> > add more> > > glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast in a> > manner> > > that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature when> > the new> > > glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and unless> > you have> > > experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot find> > anyone> > > with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I might> > just sand> > > through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of> > coats of> > > resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even work, it> > may just> > > crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom Wylie> > of Wylie> > > Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.> > >> > > On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:> > > >> > > > has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of> > cracking> > > > around early carbon masts?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > → > > Jay Glen ki6jtk> > > s/v Fantasy> > > Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> > > San Francisco Bay Area> > >> >> > > >> > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay Area>
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.22/1111 - Release Date: 11/5/2007 4:36 AM
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
Recently I saw a Freedom 45 mast of that
error that had never been used converted by GMT Composites for a Freedom 44.
They are experts in carbon fiber masts. They attached the gooseneck with bolts
through holes they drilled in the mast and riveted the sail track as had always
been done (lots of holes). I was told they said the gooseneck attachment was
stronger and better this way they the wrap around method previously used.
On my F-33 the gooseneck is attached in a
similar manner and examination of the bolts and holes shows no cracking or
deterioration.
I think the restrictions are simply to
keep the holes a minimum distance apart (can’t remember if it’s a quarter
or half an inch).
Consider joining Freedomownersgroup on
Yahoo as many of us have moved to it to avoid spam.
Alan F-33 1982 Hull #51 SEAPR
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis Spitz
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007
8:52 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
I have a '94 Freedom 35 sloop with a cf mast, and am afraid
of drilling holes into the mast. I want to put some mast steps at the base of
the mast to be able to reach the hal
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November
05, 2007 6:36 AM
Subject:
[freedomyachts2003] Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
\
Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel
coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the
professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old
“mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any
curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville,
Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco
Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco
Bay Area
size=2 width=“100%” align=center>
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.22/1111 - Release Date: 11/5/2007
4:36 AM
\
Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
Thanks for the info Michel, I was a little skeptical also about what Tom Wylie said about the construction of these masts.On 11/5/07, michel.capel <
michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old “mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area
Posted by Peter Schaefer (pcschaefer@…>)
Concerning GMTs expertise in carbon spars I recommend to have a closer
look at the following site:
http://www.morganscloud.com/gear_failures_fixes/gfrig.htm
Greetings
Peter
Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)
I
put a few such steps in and used pop rivets. I figured if it was good enough
for the mast track, it was good enough for a step.
Al
Lorman
F30
Ab Initio
From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Louis Spitz
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:59 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
\
I
have a '94 Freedom 35 sloop,and I am afraid of drilling holes into the carbon
fiber. I would like to put some mast steps
at
the base of the mast to be able to reach the halyard. How big a hoe is
safe to drill/tap?
Thanks,
Lou Spitz
F35
#23 ‘Ripple Effect’
\
\
Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 05,
2007 6:36 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003]
Re: mast cracking on f 35 ck
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Jay,
I drilled lots of holes in both my masts (1981 mizzen and 2000 main)
and I did not notice much difference in the layup, except in the
outside. The black stuff is brittle and hard to drill, the drills
get dull very quickly. You can tap thread in it very well, so I’m
not convinced of Tom Wylie’s comments on the older Freedom CF masts.
I think most of it is carbon fibre.
The filler was from Awlgrip, a two component soft filler, as far as
I know. The outer paint layers are also Awlgrip, which is very tough
and flexible, I noticed. I’ve only sailed since August with the
treated masts, so I don’t know how it will hold over time.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:
Michel,
Yes, the “mud” coat is the outer coating, sort of like a gel
coat.
It cracks
because when the mast flexes this outer coating does not have the
same
flexibility as the mast itself. This black outer coating is not
Carbon.
According to Tom Wylie of Wylie Yachts, these older Freedom carbon
fiber
masts have very little carbon in them. Most of the lay-up is glass
and
polyester resin.By the way, what flexible filler did you use to fill these cracks
and how
was it applied? Has it held up well?On 10/17/07, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay,
I don’t know what you mean with ‘mud coat’; is that the black
outer
layer? I thought that’s carbon. My masts were lightly sanded,
then
the cracks were filled with a flexible epoxy filler, sanded
smooth
and sprayed with Awlgrip.I noticed that my 1981 original TPI mizzen had this brittle black
carbon outer layer, while my 2000 GMT main mast has a thin layer
of
glas and resin over the brittle black carbon, I think to provide
a
flexible outer shell that does not crack.Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com<freedomyachts2003%
40yahoogroups.com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>wrote:
I have this cracking on my 1981 Freedom 40 CK. If the cracking
is
only
cosmetic (just in the “mud coat”) all the
professionals I
spoke to
advised
to just leave it alone. The expense to have them professionally
reconditioned is fairly costly, however, some have said an
owner
who is
handy and somewhat knowledgeable could sand off the old
“mud
coat”
and apply
a new coating and paint. Some even suggest adding another wrap
of
polyester
glass and resin after removing the old coating. If you decide
to
add more
glass and resin you better make certain you support the mast
in a
manner
that prevents sagging, or you risk “locking-in” any
curvature
when
the new
glass and resin hardens. No doubt, this is a big job, and
unless
you have
experience I’d leave it for the pros. My problem is I cannot
find
anyone
with the required experience in the SF Bay Area. I thought I
might
just sand
through the cracks with the mast left stepped, add a couple of
coats of
resin and then paint. But I don’t know if this would even
work, it
may just
crack right away under sail. So, right now, I’m doing as Tom
Wylie
of Wylie
Yachts, Watsonville, Ca. suggested and just leave it alone.On 10/16/07, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@> wrote:
has anyone any thoughts on the seriousness and treatmemt of
cracking
around early carbon masts?–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
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