Posted by allenmcclung (amcclung@…>)
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a Thissle or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in their J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the two. The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back in and ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
Posted by wacormack (wacormack@…>)
Me too!
Getting dusted by a Catalina 27 on the way into Newport a few weeks ago
convinced me that I don’t know how to trim this boat (F 36 1986). Yes, the
sails are old, original I think, and the bottom needs cleaning (having that
done this week) but in ten knots fo breeze on a close reach I thought I
should have been able to do better than the Catalina.
Any tips any of you might be willing to share would be appreciated.
Bill
Sailing F-36 (1986) Hard Earned from
New Bedford Yacht Club, Padanaram, MA
William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service firm
Bourne Counting House at One Merrill’s Wharf
New Bedford, MA 02740
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@…
---------- Original Message -----------
From: “allenmcclung” <amcclung@…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:40:39 -0000
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Need for speed
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a Thissle
or two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in their
J- 24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the two.
The wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker
until it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back in
and ran up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway,
this message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats
easily. How’d you do it?
Allen
Yahoo! Groups Links
------- End of Original Message -------
Posted by Jacqui MacConnell (jacimacc@…>)
Hello Allen. we have sometimes sailed away from the
J-boats, here in Bellingham Bay. It is very weather
specific.
We seem to need a minimum of 10 knots. Twenty plus is
even better. I am still trying to figure out what this
inventive
and cheeky crew has discovered, but I’ll forward your
note
to our helmsman, Mark Zollitsch. Maybe he can clue
(clew?)
you in! I think it must be not only the performance
in strong steady wind, but also the crew going a
little farther out than
others would think to, then screaming back in on a
dead run
and making up the difference. That, or we’ve been
lucky.
If there are 5 knots or under, we are the first to
come to a
near standstill, and the last to get-a-goin’ again. We
always
keep Reggae CD’s and good microbrews on hand for that
eventuality. Try to quickly look (and sound) like we
never
REALLY all that interested in the darned race anyway.
So far, so good. More next week when Mr. Z. the
Helmmeister sees
this…
Please specifiy what Freedom it is you are
campaigning.
I did not see that info in your note. Please do not
borrow
or lure Mark away for more than a week at a time, and
especially never during PITCH week. Thank you
sincerely, I’m sure you understand…
Kind Regards, Jacqui Mac Bellingham, WA
(Left Coast Bellingham)
— allenmcclung <amcclung@…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both
times. I started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans,
and a Thissle or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha
Males in their J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but
passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were
three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not
one of the two. The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph.
It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran
the spinnaker until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked
it back in and ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail.
Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat
J-class boats easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
\
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Posted by clivaday (clivaday@…>)
Hi Allen. So much to do-so little time! Aren’t you a new F21
owner/racer? Give it some time; but there are some specific things
you can do.
- I assume your boat bottom is clean and slick.
- Weight. 4 men on a F21 in light air is much too much weight. Try
to keep the total crew weight to 300-400 lbs in light/moderate air.
How heavy is your outboard? 35-40 pounds is max for racing. Mine is
28 lbs. Do you have “stuff” (including your gas can) stored in the
cockpit lockers at the rear of the boat? If so get it out of the
stern-or out of the boat if you don’t need it. i.e. have minimum
weight at the stern and the bow.
- Speed ratings. Are you using PHRF or Portsmouth ratings for the
races? Make sure you are getting your fair “headstart” on the other
boats, based on the ratings.
- Sails. I’ll bet the J24s have relatively new, and lightweight,
racing sails. Your staysail should be the max class legal size.
- Your keel. Is your boat shoal keel or fin keel?
By the way, I am not the “guy” who claims to beat J boats and other
pure racing boats; but I’ve gotten a lot of experience racing a
shoal draft, and a keel draft, F21 for the last 2 years. Good luck,
and keep us informed about your progress. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a Thissle
or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in their J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the two.
The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker
until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back in and
ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats
easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
Posted by allenmcclung (amcclung@…>)
Thanks Charlie,
Everything you say rings true. Four men in the boat was too much
weight.
My outboard is a trolling motor, so I don’t think that’s a problem.
I made sure my stuff was in the cabin or forward.
I’m sure the Js have all the newest lightest fastest sails they can
get. I’m checking on the size of my staysail, and have sent some
sailmaker an e-mail asking about the “UPS” sail they have for
Freedoms.
I don’t mind getting whipped by the J’s (actually, I do), but it’s
the Catalinas that really frosts me.
I’ll keep you posted on the progress.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “clivaday” <clivaday@y…>
wrote:
Hi Allen. So much to do-so little time! Aren’t you a new F21
owner/racer? Give it some time; but there are some specific things
you can do.
- I assume your boat bottom is clean and slick.
- Weight. 4 men on a F21 in light air is much too much weight. Try
to keep the total crew weight to 300-400 lbs in light/moderate air.
How heavy is your outboard? 35-40 pounds is max for racing. Mine is
28 lbs. Do you have “stuff” (including your gas can) stored in the
cockpit lockers at the rear of the boat? If so get it out of the
stern-or out of the boat if you don’t need it. i.e. have minimum
weight at the stern and the bow.
- Speed ratings. Are you using PHRF or Portsmouth ratings for the
races? Make sure you are getting your fair “headstart” on the other
boats, based on the ratings.
- Sails. I’ll bet the J24s have relatively new, and lightweight,
racing sails. Your staysail should be the max class legal size.
- Your keel. Is your boat shoal keel or fin keel?
By the way, I am not the “guy” who claims to beat J boats and other
pure racing boats; but I’ve gotten a lot of experience racing a
shoal draft, and a keel draft, F21 for the last 2 years. Good luck,
and keep us informed about your progress. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I
started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a
Thissle
or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in their
J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the two.
The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker
until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back in and
ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats
easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
Posted by allenmcclung (amcclung@…>)
Jacqui,
Thanks for the response. I’m sailing a Freedom 21, 1985.
Yes, 10 knots or getter is what I need…plus some Reggae.
I think Charlie passed on some good advice about weight of people in
the boat and a clean, slick bottom.
I know from sailing the boat out of race conditions that once I get
the spinnaker up my chances should improve drastically.
I’ll keep you posted on the progress.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jacqui MacConnell
<jacimacc@y…> wrote:
Hello Allen. we have sometimes sailed away from the
J-boats, here in Bellingham Bay. It is very weather
specific.
We seem to need a minimum of 10 knots. Twenty plus is
even better. I am still trying to figure out what this
inventive
and cheeky crew has discovered, but I’ll forward your
note
to our helmsman, Mark Zollitsch. Maybe he can clue
(clew?)
you in! I think it must be not only the performance
in strong steady wind, but also the crew going a
little farther out than
others would think to, then screaming back in on a
dead run
and making up the difference. That, or we’ve been
lucky.
If there are 5 knots or under, we are the first to
come to a
near standstill, and the last to get-a-goin’ again. We
always
keep Reggae CD’s and good microbrews on hand for that
eventuality. Try to quickly look (and sound) like we
never
REALLY all that interested in the darned race anyway.
So far, so good. More next week when Mr. Z. the
Helmmeister sees
this…
Please specifiy what Freedom it is you are
campaigning.
I did not see that info in your note. Please do not
borrow
or lure Mark away for more than a week at a time, and
especially never during PITCH week. Thank you
sincerely, I’m sure you understand…
Kind Regards, Jacqui Mac Bellingham, WA
(Left Coast Bellingham)
— allenmcclung <amcclung@f…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both
times. I started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans,
and a Thissle or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha
Males in their J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but
passed us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were
three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not
one of the two. The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph.
It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran
the spinnaker until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked
it back in and ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail.
Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat
J-class boats easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)
Hi Bill, How did you enjoy Block. It was good meeting you. Every one
has tricks and methods for getting the best out of the 36. It is a
simple boat to sail and is inherently fast. To my mind, the single
most important tip is: Don’t over trim. Let the main out till it
luffs and only trim in a little. Based on your experience with other
boats, it will look wrong, but these aren’t other boats. Another
tip: Don’t pinch, you’ll only sail sideways. foot off a couple of
degrees, let the main out, straighten up. You’ll make a longer
distance, but higher speed with less leeway. Also, don’t over center
the main.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “wacormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:
Me too!
Getting dusted by a Catalina 27 on the way into Newport a few
weeks ago
convinced me that I don’t know how to trim this boat (F 36 1986).
Yes, the
sails are old, original I think, and the bottom needs cleaning
(having that
done this week) but in ten knots fo breeze on a close reach I
thought I
should have been able to do better than the Catalina.
Any tips any of you might be willing to share would be appreciated.
Bill
Sailing F-36 (1986) Hard Earned from
New Bedford Yacht Club, Padanaram, MA
William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service firm
Bourne Counting House at One Merrill’s Wharf
New Bedford, MA 02740
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w…
---------- Original Message -----------
From: “allenmcclung” <amcclung@f…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:40:39 -0000
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Need for speed
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I
started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a
Thissle
or two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in
their
J- 24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed
us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the
two.
The wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came
from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker
until it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back
in
and ran up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail.
Anyway,
this message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class
boats
easily. How’d you do it?
Allen
Yahoo! Groups Links
------- End of Original Message -------
Posted by Jacqui MacConnell (jacimacc@…>)
Allen, the chap below gives the best summary so far.
His is
the size Freedom we are racing. I don’t know if all
the same tips apply to your boat, but probably ? Let
us know, and
“goodspeed” ! JaciMac, left coast
Bellingham
— macks011 <macks04@…> wrote:
Hi Bill, How did you enjoy Block. It was good
meeting you. Every one
has tricks and methods for getting the best out of
the 36. It is a
simple boat to sail and is inherently fast. To my
mind, the single
most important tip is: Don’t over trim. Let the main
out till it
luffs and only trim in a little. Based on your
experience with other
boats, it will look wrong, but these aren’t other
boats. Another
tip: Don’t pinch, you’ll only sail sideways. foot
off a couple of
degrees, let the main out, straighten up. You’ll
make a longer
distance, but higher speed with less leeway. Also,
don’t over center
the main.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“wacormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:
Me too!
Getting dusted by a Catalina 27 on the way into
Newport a few
weeks ago
convinced me that I don’t know how to trim this
boat (F 36 1986).
Yes, the
sails are old, original I think, and the bottom
needs cleaning
(having that
done this week) but in ten knots fo breeze on a
close reach I
thought I
should have been able to do better than the
Catalina.
Any tips any of you might be willing to share
would be appreciated.
Bill
Sailing F-36 (1986) Hard Earned from
New Bedford Yacht Club, Padanaram, MA
William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate
Service firm
Bourne Counting House at One Merrill’s Wharf
New Bedford, MA 02740
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell
508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w…
---------- Original Message -----------
From: “allenmcclung” <amcclung@f…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:40:39 -0000
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Need for speed
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last
both times. I
started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San
Juans, and a
Thissle
or two. Starting five minues behind us was the
Alpha Males in
their
J- 24s. They not only caught the rest of the
herd, but passed
us. I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me
were three other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m
not one of the
two.
The wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to
7 mph. It came
from
different directions and was not constant. We
ran the spinnaker
until it was just flapping in the breeze and
then yanked it back
in
and ran up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger
stay-sail.
Anyway,
this message is to the guy who said he used to
beat J-class
boats
easily. How’d you do it?
Allen
Yahoo! Groups Links
------- End of Original Message -------
\
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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
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Posted by dbacklun (davebacklund@…>)
Charlie:
Could you say something about how the F21 shoal sails compared to the
F21 fin?
I have raced a F21 shoal for several years in Minnesota. Bottom not
the best, a little too much weight in the stern, have both front
sails (dacron). Almost always sail singlehanded. I am in the bottom
third of our mixed fleet across the finish line, generally. (We have
a Catalina 22 in our fleet that does very well.)
Anybody have an opinion about, when the wind picks up, main alone
versus main with a reef and the small front sail?
Dave B.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Thanks Charlie,
Everything you say rings true. Four men in the boat was too much
weight.
My outboard is a trolling motor, so I don’t think that’s a problem.
I made sure my stuff was in the cabin or forward.
I’m sure the Js have all the newest lightest fastest sails they can
get. I’m checking on the size of my staysail, and have sent some
sailmaker an e-mail asking about the “UPS” sail they have for
Freedoms.
I don’t mind getting whipped by the J’s (actually, I do), but it’s
the Catalinas that really frosts me.
I’ll keep you posted on the progress.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “clivaday”
<clivaday@y…>
wrote:
Hi Allen. So much to do-so little time! Aren’t you a new F21
owner/racer? Give it some time; but there are some specific
things
you can do.
- I assume your boat bottom is clean and slick.
- Weight. 4 men on a F21 in light air is much too much weight.
Try
to keep the total crew weight to 300-400 lbs in light/moderate
air.
How heavy is your outboard? 35-40 pounds is max for racing. Mine
is
28 lbs. Do you have “stuff” (including your gas can) stored in
the
cockpit lockers at the rear of the boat? If so get it out of the
stern-or out of the boat if you don’t need it. i.e. have minimum
weight at the stern and the bow.
- Speed ratings. Are you using PHRF or Portsmouth ratings for
the
races? Make sure you are getting your fair “headstart” on the
other
boats, based on the ratings.
- Sails. I’ll bet the J24s have relatively new, and lightweight,
racing sails. Your staysail should be the max class legal size.
- Your keel. Is your boat shoal keel or fin keel?
By the way, I am not the “guy” who claims to beat J boats and
other
pure racing boats; but I’ve gotten a lot of experience racing a
shoal draft, and a keel draft, F21 for the last 2 years. Good
luck,
and keep us informed about your progress. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I
started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a
Thissle
or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in
their
J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed us.
I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three
other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the
two.
The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the spinnaker
until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back in
and
ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway, this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats
easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen
Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)
Dave. My opinion is that: The shoal draft F 21 will not point
upwind, and is not suitable for any serious racing, even using the
large or small staysail. The fin keel F 21 “sloop” (with either the
large or small staysail) is much more efficient, but still will not
point upwind with a Catalina 22 or similar boat; however, you will
be competitive with the Catalina 22 and similar boats, because of
the excellent reaching and downwind speed of the F 21 with the
staysail and/or spinnaker. I believe the F 21 and J 22 were
originally built side by side, with the F 21 built for comfort,
stability and ease of handling, and racing only as a class–and not
to be competitive with the J 22 and similar racing-oriented boats.
So, if you really want to seriously race, get a J 22. If you want
comfort, stability and ease of handling, and excellent performance
for pleasure sailing and cruising, and “fun” racing, you can’t beat
the F 21. With the F 21 fin keel “sloop”, there are many
cruiser/racers of all sizes that you can beat, and many trophies to
be won. Hope this helps. Happy sailing. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “dbacklun”
<davebacklund@m…> wrote:
Charlie:
Could you say something about how the F21 shoal sails compared to
the
F21 fin?
I have raced a F21 shoal for several years in Minnesota. Bottom
not
the best, a little too much weight in the stern, have both front
sails (dacron). Almost always sail singlehanded. I am in the
bottom
third of our mixed fleet across the finish line, generally. (We
have
a Catalina 22 in our fleet that does very well.)
Anybody have an opinion about, when the wind picks up, main alone
versus main with a reef and the small front sail?
Dave B.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Thanks Charlie,
Everything you say rings true. Four men in the boat was too much
weight.
My outboard is a trolling motor, so I don’t think that’s a
problem.
I made sure my stuff was in the cabin or forward.
I’m sure the Js have all the newest lightest fastest sails they
can
get. I’m checking on the size of my staysail, and have sent some
sailmaker an e-mail asking about the “UPS” sail they have for
Freedoms.
I don’t mind getting whipped by the J’s (actually, I do), but
it’s
the Catalinas that really frosts me.
I’ll keep you posted on the progress.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “clivaday”
<clivaday@y…>
wrote:
Hi Allen. So much to do-so little time! Aren’t you a new F21
owner/racer? Give it some time; but there are some specific
things
you can do.
- I assume your boat bottom is clean and slick.
- Weight. 4 men on a F21 in light air is much too much
weight.
Try
to keep the total crew weight to 300-400 lbs in light/moderate
air.
How heavy is your outboard? 35-40 pounds is max for racing.
Mine
is
28 lbs. Do you have “stuff” (including your gas can) stored in
the
cockpit lockers at the rear of the boat? If so get it out of
the
stern-or out of the boat if you don’t need it. i.e. have
minimum
weight at the stern and the bow.
- Speed ratings. Are you using PHRF or Portsmouth ratings for
the
races? Make sure you are getting your fair “headstart” on the
other
boats, based on the ratings.
- Sails. I’ll bet the J24s have relatively new, and
lightweight,
racing sails. Your staysail should be the max class legal size.
- Your keel. Is your boat shoal keel or fin keel?
By the way, I am not the “guy” who claims to beat J boats and
other
pure racing boats; but I’ve gotten a lot of experience racing
a
shoal draft, and a keel draft, F21 for the last 2 years. Good
luck,
and keep us informed about your progress. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “allenmcclung”
<amcclung@f…> wrote:
Yesterday I raced two races and came in last both times. I
started
out against 5 or 6 Catalinas, a couple of San Juans, and a
Thissle
or
two. Starting five minues behind us was the Alpha Males in
their
J-
24s. They not only caught the rest of the herd, but passed
us.
I
don’t like to come in last. In the boat with me were three
other
guys, two of whom are experienced racers. I’m not one of the
two.
The
wind was 3 to 5 miles, sometimes gusting to 7 mph. It came
from
different directions and was not constant. We ran the
spinnaker
until
it was just flapping in the breeze and then yanked it back
in
and
ran
up the stay-sail. Maybe I need a bigger stay-sail. Anyway,
this
message is to the guy who said he used to beat J-class boats
easily.
How’d you do it?
Allen