Newbie here, infiltrating from the Columbia list

Posted by stevenagaber (sgaber@…>)

Hello there.

I just joined this list because I am considering the purchase of a
Freedom, possibly a 33 or a 40 if I can find one I could afford.

I have owned a Charlie Morgan designed 1967 Columbia 31 for 17 years. I
have been on the Yahoo Columbia list since its founding and am a
frequent contributor there.

The Colubia 31 is a beautiful little boat that sails extremely well.
But it’s a 1960s CCA design and the operative word here is little. The
entire boat has been rebuilt, but it lacks the modern conveniences that
newer boats have – h/c water, shower, air conditioning (this IS
Florida). I could add some of those things, but a shower, for instance
would require much reworking of the interior. My wife won’t spend 3
days on a boat wihtout a shower. Men have lower standards in that
regard. An F33 already has a shower.

I know very little about Freedom boats except that I love the look of
the 33, 40 and 44, have heard good things about their quality and
sailing abilities. I do have some questions which you guys no doubt
have answered many times. I could consult your list archives if you
have one for the answers. Or maybe someone would be so kind as to
answer them.

  1. My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time aboard. Anything more than
    a few days is not really feasible for a couple on the C-31 unless you
    are a masochist or maybe a mouse who has no issues with claustrophobia.
    A single person could live on the C31 pretty well, but not two peple
    for very long. Have any couples lived aboard or spent long periods of
    time on a F33?

  2. Since the water on the West Coast of Florida is very thin, I am
    looking for a shallow draft boat, probably with a centerboard. Do
    Freedoms have external ballast with keel bots or is their ballast
    encapsulated in fiberglass? Is the presence of the centerboard in the
    cabin of the F33 a major bother?

  3. Is water intrusion in the balsa core of the hull a problem? In some
    boats, owners install items – through-hulls for knotmeters, etc.,
    without properly isolating the balsa with epoxy. Do the hulls of older
    Freedoms have a good record regarding water intrusion and saturation of
    the hull core?

  4. Deck delamination is a common problem with all older boats. What
    about Freedoms? How well is the deeck gear mounted? I have replaced
    large chunks of the deck of my Columbia and have gotten good at it. I
    replaced all the lifeline stanchions, winches and deck cleats. I
    installed sail-handling gear on the cabintop so that all the lines lead
    back to the cockpit – halyard winches, deck organizers turning blocks
    and halyard clutches. I removed all the balsa and/or plywood in these
    areas and replaced it with biaxial glass and epoxy to a thickines of
    over an inch. You could lift the boat at any of these re-enforced
    locations. But I don’t wanna do much more of that unless necessary.

  5. Do you know of any F-33s or F-40s available? There were a few listed
    in the on-line brokerages, but I thought maybe you guys would have a
    better idea of any that may be out there. Anybody know anything about
    the F-40 in Fairhope, Alabama? I realize there’s a big difference
    between the F33 and the F40. Whichever one we end up with will
    determine the amiunt of time we spend aboard. I am willing to do a
    reasonable amount of work. I would even consider one that needs an
    engine. I am a manufacturer’s rep for Beta Marine Diesel engines and
    would probably replace whatever engine is in there anyway.

Those questions should be sufficient for a start. This post is probably
too long for you guys anyway. I don’t know how tolerant this list is,
compared to the Columbia list, which is notoriously and gloriously
irreverent, rambling and frequently off-topic.

Any insight you could provide on these pithy issues would be
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


Steve:

Most
Freedom owners have moved to the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo to avoid the
spam that periodically attacks this list (the other list is spam-free because
you need permission to join). I suggest you sign up for the other list
and repost your questions there.

Al
Lorman
F30
Ab Initio



From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stevenagaber
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:14 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Newbie here, infiltrating from the Columbia
list

\




Hello there.

I just joined this list because I am considering the purchase of a
Freedom, possibly a 33 or a 40 if I can find one I could afford.

I have owned a Charlie Morgan designed 1967 Columbia 31 for 17 years. I
have been on the Yahoo Columbia list since its founding and am a
frequent contributor there.

The Colubia 31 is a beautiful little boat that sails extremely well.
But it’s a 1960s CCA design and the operative word here is little. The
entire boat has been rebuilt, but it lacks the modern conveniences that
newer boats have – h/c water, shower, air conditioning (this IS
Florida). I could add some of those things, but a shower, for instance
would require much reworking of the interior. My wife won’t spend 3
days on a boat wihtout a shower. Men have lower standards in that
regard. An F33 already has a shower.

I know very little about Freedom boats except that I love the look of
the 33, 40 and 44, have heard good things about their quality and
sailing abilities. I do have some questions which you guys no doubt
have answered many times. I could consult your list archives if you
have one for the answers. Or maybe someone would be so kind as to
answer them.

  1. My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time aboard. Anything more than
    a few days is not really feasible for a couple on the C-31 unless you
    are a masochist or maybe a mouse who has no issues with claustrophobia.
    A single person could live on the C31 pretty well, but not two peple
    for very long. Have any couples lived aboard or spent long periods of
    time on a F33?

  2. Since the water on the West Coast of Florida is very thin, I am
    looking for a shallow draft boat, probably with a centerboard. Do
    Freedoms have external ballast with keel bots or is their ballast
    encapsulated in fiberglass? Is the presence of the centerboard in the
    cabin of the F33 a major bother?

  3. Is water intrusion in the balsa core of the hull a problem? In some
    boats, owners install items – through-hulls for knotmeters, etc.,
    without properly isolating the balsa with epoxy. Do the hulls of older
    Freedoms have a good record regarding water intrusion and saturation of
    the hull core?

  4. Deck delamination is a common problem with all older boats. What
    about Freedoms? How well is the deeck gear mounted? I have replaced
    large chunks of the deck of my Columbia and have gotten good at it. I
    replaced all the lifeline stanchions, winches and deck cleats. I
    installed sail-handling gear on the cabintop so that all the lines lead
    back to the cockpit – halyard winches, deck organizers turning blocks
    and halyard clutches. I removed all the balsa and/or plywood in these
    areas and replaced it with biaxial glass and epoxy to a thickines of
    over an inch. You could lift the boat at any of these re-enforced
    locations. But I don’t wanna do much more of that unless necessary.

  5. Do you know of any F-33s or F-40s available? There were a few listed
    in the on-line brokerages, but I thought maybe you guys would have a
    better idea of any that may be out there. Anybody know anything about
    the F-40 in Fairhope, Alabama? I realize there’s a big difference
    between the F33 and the F40. Whichever one we end up with will
    determine the amiunt of time we spend aboard. I am willing to do a
    reasonable amount of work. I would even consider one that needs an
    engine. I am a manufacturer’s rep for Beta Marine Diesel engines and
    would probably replace whatever engine is in there anyway.

Those questions should be sufficient for a start. This post is probably
too long for you guys anyway. I don’t know how tolerant this list is,
compared to the Columbia list, which is notoriously and gloriously
irreverent, rambling and frequently off-topic.

Any insight you could provide on these pithy issues would be
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL


\

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
Steve,I have a 1981 Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch in excellent condition. You can see it at; sailboatlistings.com. There you can check out mine(Fantasy), and other Freedoms for sale.
On Dec 8, 2007 7:22 AM, Al Lorman <ajl@…> wrote:






Steve:

Most
Freedom owners have moved to the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo to avoid the
spam that periodically attacks this list (the other list is spam-free because
you need permission to join). I suggest you sign up for the other list
and repost your questions there.

Al
Lorman
F30
Ab Initio



From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stevenagaber
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:14 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Newbie here, infiltrating from the Columbia
list

\




Hello there.

I just joined this list because I am considering the purchase of a
Freedom, possibly a 33 or a 40 if I can find one I could afford.

I have owned a Charlie Morgan designed 1967 Columbia 31 for 17 years. I
have been on the Yahoo Columbia list since its founding and am a
frequent contributor there.

The Colubia 31 is a beautiful little boat that sails extremely well.
But it’s a 1960s CCA design and the operative word here is little. The
entire boat has been rebuilt, but it lacks the modern conveniences that
newer boats have – h/c water, shower, air conditioning (this IS
Florida). I could add some of those things, but a shower, for instance
would require much reworking of the interior. My wife won’t spend 3
days on a boat wihtout a shower. Men have lower standards in that
regard. An F33 already has a shower.

I know very little about Freedom boats except that I love the look of
the 33, 40 and 44, have heard good things about their quality and
sailing abilities. I do have some questions which you guys no doubt
have answered many times. I could consult your list archives if you
have one for the answers. Or maybe someone would be so kind as to
answer them.

  1. My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time aboard. Anything more than
    a few days is not really feasible for a couple on the C-31 unless you
    are a masochist or maybe a mouse who has no issues with claustrophobia.
    A single person could live on the C31 pretty well, but not two peple
    for very long. Have any couples lived aboard or spent long periods of
    time on a F33?

  2. Since the water on the West Coast of Florida is very thin, I am
    looking for a shallow draft boat, probably with a centerboard. Do
    Freedoms have external ballast with keel bots or is their ballast
    encapsulated in fiberglass? Is the presence of the centerboard in the
    cabin of the F33 a major bother?

  3. Is water intrusion in the balsa core of the hull a problem? In some
    boats, owners install items – through-hulls for knotmeters, etc.,
    without properly isolating the balsa with epoxy. Do the hulls of older
    Freedoms have a good record regarding water intrusion and saturation of
    the hull core?

  4. Deck delamination is a common problem with all older boats. What
    about Freedoms? How well is the deeck gear mounted? I have replaced
    large chunks of the deck of my Columbia and have gotten good at it. I
    replaced all the lifeline stanchions, winches and deck cleats. I
    installed sail-handling gear on the cabintop so that all the lines lead
    back to the cockpit – halyard winches, deck organizers turning blocks
    and halyard clutches. I removed all the balsa and/or plywood in these
    areas and replaced it with biaxial glass and epoxy to a thickines of
    over an inch. You could lift the boat at any of these re-enforced
    locations. But I don’t wanna do much more of that unless necessary.

  5. Do you know of any F-33s or F-40s available? There were a few listed
    in the on-line brokerages, but I thought maybe you guys would have a
    better idea of any that may be out there. Anybody know anything about
    the F-40 in Fairhope, Alabama? I realize there’s a big difference
    between the F33 and the F40. Whichever one we end up with will
    determine the amiunt of time we spend aboard. I am willing to do a
    reasonable amount of work. I would even consider one that needs an
    engine. I am a manufacturer’s rep for Beta Marine Diesel engines and
    would probably replace whatever engine is in there anyway.

Those questions should be sufficient for a start. This post is probably
too long for you guys anyway. I don’t know how tolerant this list is,
compared to the Columbia list, which is notoriously and gloriously
irreverent, rambling and frequently off-topic.

Any insight you could provide on these pithy issues would be
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL






– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area

Posted by stevenagaber (sgaber@…>)

Al:

Is this not the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo?
I had to sign up for this list. You mean there’s another Yahoo list?

I did see some posts for the Sailnet Freedom group, but except for an
adress change, all the posts were from 2006. Nobody on that one?

Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll look in Yahoo for this other list.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Al Lorman” <ajl@…> wrote:

Steve:

Most Freedom owners have moved to the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo
to avoid
the spam that periodically attacks this list (the other list is
spam-free
because you need permission to join). I suggest you sign up for
the other
list and repost your questions there.

Al Lorman

F30 Ab Initio

From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stevenagaber
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:14 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Newbie here, infiltrating from the
Columbia
list

Hello there.

I just joined this list because I am considering the purchase of a
Freedom, possibly a 33 or a 40 if I can find one I could afford.

I have owned a Charlie Morgan designed 1967 Columbia 31 for 17
years. I
have been on the Yahoo Columbia list since its founding and am a
frequent contributor there.

The Colubia 31 is a beautiful little boat that sails extremely
well.
But it’s a 1960s CCA design and the operative word here is little.
The
entire boat has been rebuilt, but it lacks the modern conveniences
that
newer boats have – h/c water, shower, air conditioning (this IS
Florida). I could add some of those things, but a shower, for
instance
would require much reworking of the interior. My wife won’t spend 3
days on a boat wihtout a shower. Men have lower standards in that
regard. An F33 already has a shower.

I know very little about Freedom boats except that I love the look
of
the 33, 40 and 44, have heard good things about their quality and
sailing abilities. I do have some questions which you guys no doubt
have answered many times. I could consult your list archives if you
have one for the answers. Or maybe someone would be so kind as to
answer them.

  1. My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time aboard. Anything more
    than
    a few days is not really feasible for a couple on the C-31 unless
    you
    are a masochist or maybe a mouse who has no issues with
    claustrophobia.
    A single person could live on the C31 pretty well, but not two
    peple
    for very long. Have any couples lived aboard or spent long periods
    of
    time on a F33?

  2. Since the water on the West Coast of Florida is very thin, I am
    looking for a shallow draft boat, probably with a centerboard. Do
    Freedoms have external ballast with keel bots or is their ballast
    encapsulated in fiberglass? Is the presence of the centerboard in
    the
    cabin of the F33 a major bother?

  3. Is water intrusion in the balsa core of the hull a problem? In
    some
    boats, owners install items – through-hulls for knotmeters, etc.,
    without properly isolating the balsa with epoxy. Do the hulls of
    older
    Freedoms have a good record regarding water intrusion and
    saturation of
    the hull core?

  4. Deck delamination is a common problem with all older boats. What
    about Freedoms? How well is the deeck gear mounted? I have replaced
    large chunks of the deck of my Columbia and have gotten good at it.
    I
    replaced all the lifeline stanchions, winches and deck cleats. I
    installed sail-handling gear on the cabintop so that all the lines
    lead
    back to the cockpit – halyard winches, deck organizers turning
    blocks
    and halyard clutches. I removed all the balsa and/or plywood in
    these
    areas and replaced it with biaxial glass and epoxy to a thickines
    of
    over an inch. You could lift the boat at any of these re-enforced
    locations. But I don’t wanna do much more of that unless necessary.

  5. Do you know of any F-33s or F-40s available? There were a few
    listed
    in the on-line brokerages, but I thought maybe you guys would have
    a
    better idea of any that may be out there. Anybody know anything
    about
    the F-40 in Fairhope, Alabama? I realize there’s a big difference
    between the F33 and the F40. Whichever one we end up with will
    determine the amiunt of time we spend aboard. I am willing to do a
    reasonable amount of work. I would even consider one that needs an
    engine. I am a manufacturer’s rep for Beta Marine Diesel engines
    and
    would probably replace whatever engine is in there anyway.

Those questions should be sufficient for a start. This post is
probably
too long for you guys anyway. I don’t know how tolerant this list
is,
compared to the Columbia list, which is notoriously and gloriously
irreverent, rambling and frequently off-topic.

Any insight you could provide on these pithy issues would be
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


Steve:

There
are two Freedom groups on Yahoo. This one, Freedomyachts2003, was started
by Freedom Yachts after their own web site was overrun with spam. That
has been happening to the Yahoo site as well, so another chat board was
started, FreedomOwnersGroup, was started. This group has a moderator,
which means that spammers can’t post. Most of us have migrated to
the that board and this one is slowly dying. So anyone who reads this and
is not a member of the other group is encouraged to join us there: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOwnersGroup/

Al
Lorman
F30
Ab Initio



From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of stevenagaber
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:33 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Newbie here, infiltrating from the Columbia
list

\




Al:

Is this not the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo?
I had to sign up for this list. You mean there’s another Yahoo list?

I did see some posts for the Sailnet Freedom group, but except for an
adress change, all the posts were from 2006. Nobody on that one?

Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll look in Yahoo for this other list.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Al Lorman” <ajl@…> wrote:

Steve:

Most Freedom owners have moved to the Freedom Owners Group on Yahoo
to avoid
the spam that periodically attacks this list (the other list is
spam-free
because you need permission to join). I suggest you sign up for
the other
list and repost your questions there.

Al Lorman

F30 Ab Initio

From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of stevenagaber
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:14 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Newbie here, infiltrating from the
Columbia
list

Hello there.

I just joined this list because I am considering the purchase of a
Freedom, possibly a 33 or a 40 if I can find one I could afford.

I have owned a Charlie Morgan designed 1967 Columbia 31 for 17
years. I
have been on the Yahoo Columbia list since its founding and am a
frequent contributor there.

The Colubia 31 is a beautiful little boat that sails extremely
well.
But it’s a 1960s CCA design and the operative word here is little.
The
entire boat has been rebuilt, but it lacks the modern conveniences
that
newer boats have – h/c water, shower, air conditioning (this IS
Florida). I could add some of those things, but a shower, for
instance
would require much reworking of the interior. My wife won’t spend 3
days on a boat wihtout a shower. Men have lower standards in that
regard. An F33 already has a shower.

I know very little about Freedom boats except that I love the look
of
the 33, 40 and 44, have heard good things about their quality and
sailing abilities. I do have some questions which you guys no doubt
have answered many times. I could consult your list archives if you
have one for the answers. Or maybe someone would be so kind as to
answer them.

  1. My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time aboard. Anything more
    than
    a few days is not really feasible for a couple on the C-31 unless
    you
    are a masochist or maybe a mouse who has no issues with
    claustrophobia.
    A single person could live on the C31 pretty well, but not two
    peple
    for very long. Have any couples lived aboard or spent long periods
    of
    time on a F33?

  2. Since the water on the West Coast of Florida is very thin, I am
    looking for a shallow draft boat, probably with a centerboard. Do
    Freedoms have external ballast with keel bots or is their ballast
    encapsulated in fiberglass? Is the presence of the centerboard in
    the
    cabin of the F33 a major bother?

  3. Is water intrusion in the balsa core of the hull a problem? In
    some
    boats, owners install items – through-hulls for knotmeters, etc.,
    without properly isolating the balsa with epoxy. Do the hulls of
    older
    Freedoms have a good record regarding water intrusion and
    saturation of
    the hull core?

  4. Deck delamination is a common problem with all older boats. What
    about Freedoms? How well is the deeck gear mounted? I have replaced
    large chunks of the deck of my Columbia and have gotten good at it.
    I
    replaced all the lifeline stanchions, winches and deck cleats. I
    installed sail-handling gear on the cabintop so that all the lines
    lead
    back to the cockpit – halyard winches, deck organizers turning
    blocks
    and halyard clutches. I removed all the balsa and/or plywood in
    these
    areas and replaced it with biaxial glass and epoxy to a thickines
    of
    over an inch. You could lift the boat at any of these re-enforced
    locations. But I don’t wanna do much more of that unless necessary.

  5. Do you know of any F-33s or F-40s available? There were a few
    listed
    in the on-line brokerages, but I thought maybe you guys would have
    a
    better idea of any that may be out there. Anybody know anything
    about
    the F-40 in Fairhope, Alabama? I realize there’s a big difference
    between the F33 and the F40. Whichever one we end up with will
    determine the amiunt of time we spend aboard. I am willing to do a
    reasonable amount of work. I would even consider one that needs an
    engine. I am a manufacturer’s rep for Beta Marine Diesel engines
    and
    would probably replace whatever engine is in there anyway.

Those questions should be sufficient for a start. This post is
probably
too long for you guys anyway. I don’t know how tolerant this list
is,
compared to the Columbia list, which is notoriously and gloriously
irreverent, rambling and frequently off-topic.

Any insight you could provide on these pithy issues would be
appreciated.

Sincerely,
Steve Gaber
Sanderling
1967 Columbia 31, #77
Oldsmar, FL



\