Putting in a new headliner on my F-30 (1987)

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1

Posted by JoelR (ohso2001@…>)

I’m replacing the headliner on my F-30.

I’m in the middle of the job. I’ll try to explain what
I have found, and I think I’ll take pictures of it
before closing it back up.

Removing the old headliner (and headliner boards)
requires removing the two interior teak grabrails.

These grabrails have three plugs. I thought it would
be easy. (The plugs are glued in by the way)

The plugs have to be drilled out. What is revealed is
a bolt, and buried deeper into the grabrail is a nut.


To get to the nut I literally had to destroy the
interior grabrail. What remains after you fight cut
away teak to get to the nuts, are three bolts.

These bolts appear to extend through the cabin top and
are positioned (apparently) directly below two
exterior teak grabrails.

Rather than destroy the other grabrail inside the
cabin, I’d like to know if anyone out there has
successfully removed the interior grabrails (which are
apparently mounted on the same bolts as the exterior
grabrails) with success and how they did it.

Note: the two forward most attachments for the
exterior grabrails (which have three mounting points)
when exposed from inside the cabin, appear to be
machined stainless steel bolts with a phillips heads.
The forward two bolts for the exterior grabrail must
be removed from the inside of the cabin. This job
requires removing the forward headliner boards in the
main cabin.

I’m wondering if the three bolts aft of these are just
the opposite with a phillips head stainless steel bolt
that has to be accessed from the exterior of the
cabin.

There are three plugs on the exterior grabrails aft of
the forward two bolts, which do not have teak plugs.

And, of course, there are the three plugs on the
interior grabrails, that hide nuts.

It’s a strange situation.

Does anyone know how this works.

Thanks,

Lee



\

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2

Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

Lee:

Beyond confirming that many different boats have their inside and
outside grab rails bolted together, I can’t give you any help since
I just bought my F-30. But I, too, have a sagging headliner and I
sure would be grateful if you would share some photos with the
group. I had given some thought to replacing the vinyl with a solid
headliner like white Formica, but I really don’t know what’s
underneath. Has anyone else tried something like this?

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, JoelR <ohso2001@y…>
wrote:

I’m replacing the headliner on my F-30.

I’m in the middle of the job. I’ll try to explain what
I have found, and I think I’ll take pictures of it
before closing it back up.

Removing the old headliner (and headliner boards)
requires removing the two interior teak grabrails.

These grabrails have three plugs. I thought it would
be easy. (The plugs are glued in by the way)

The plugs have to be drilled out. What is revealed is
a bolt, and buried deeper into the grabrail is a nut.

To get to the nut I literally had to destroy the
interior grabrail. What remains after you fight cut
away teak to get to the nuts, are three bolts.

These bolts appear to extend through the cabin top and
are positioned (apparently) directly below two
exterior teak grabrails.

Rather than destroy the other grabrail inside the
cabin, I’d like to know if anyone out there has
successfully removed the interior grabrails (which are
apparently mounted on the same bolts as the exterior
grabrails) with success and how they did it.

Note: the two forward most attachments for the
exterior grabrails (which have three mounting points)
when exposed from inside the cabin, appear to be
machined stainless steel bolts with a phillips heads.
The forward two bolts for the exterior grabrail must
be removed from the inside of the cabin. This job
requires removing the forward headliner boards in the
main cabin.

I’m wondering if the three bolts aft of these are just
the opposite with a phillips head stainless steel bolt
that has to be accessed from the exterior of the
cabin.

There are three plugs on the exterior grabrails aft of
the forward two bolts, which do not have teak plugs.

And, of course, there are the three plugs on the
interior grabrails, that hide nuts.

It’s a strange situation.

Does anyone know how this works.

Thanks,

Lee

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3

Posted by mail@… (mail@…)

My F30 had the headliner replaced by the previous owner with
something like white formica or some sort of white plastic. He said
that the headliner was attached to very thin pieces of plywood which
he removed and used as a templete for the plastic. It is held up
like the original one by the battons. As it is warming up on the
Texas coast, it is sagging in a few spots so I am probably going to
need to add another set of battons between the original ones to give
just a bit more support. Overall though it looks great. I can’t
comment on how much work it was though since he didn’t say.

Bill


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ajlorman” <ajlorman@y…>
wrote:

Lee:

Beyond confirming that many different boats have their inside and
outside grab rails bolted together, I can’t give you any help
since
I just bought my F-30. But I, too, have a sagging headliner and I
sure would be grateful if you would share some photos with the
group. I had given some thought to replacing the vinyl with a
solid
headliner like white Formica, but I really don’t know what’s
underneath. Has anyone else tried something like this?

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, JoelR <ohso2001@y…>
wrote:

I’m replacing the headliner on my F-30.

I’m in the middle of the job. I’ll try to explain what
I have found, and I think I’ll take pictures of it
before closing it back up.

Removing the old headliner (and headliner boards)
requires removing the two interior teak grabrails.

These grabrails have three plugs. I thought it would
be easy. (The plugs are glued in by the way)

The plugs have to be drilled out. What is revealed is
a bolt, and buried deeper into the grabrail is a nut.

To get to the nut I literally had to destroy the
interior grabrail. What remains after you fight cut
away teak to get to the nuts, are three bolts.

These bolts appear to extend through the cabin top and
are positioned (apparently) directly below two
exterior teak grabrails.

Rather than destroy the other grabrail inside the
cabin, I’d like to know if anyone out there has
successfully removed the interior grabrails (which are
apparently mounted on the same bolts as the exterior
grabrails) with success and how they did it.

Note: the two forward most attachments for the
exterior grabrails (which have three mounting points)
when exposed from inside the cabin, appear to be
machined stainless steel bolts with a phillips heads.
The forward two bolts for the exterior grabrail must
be removed from the inside of the cabin. This job
requires removing the forward headliner boards in the
main cabin.

I’m wondering if the three bolts aft of these are just
the opposite with a phillips head stainless steel bolt
that has to be accessed from the exterior of the
cabin.

There are three plugs on the exterior grabrails aft of
the forward two bolts, which do not have teak plugs.

And, of course, there are the three plugs on the
interior grabrails, that hide nuts.

It’s a strange situation.

Does anyone know how this works.

Thanks,

Lee

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4

Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

Thanks, Bill. Your post confirms to me that there are no unseen
obstacles behind the existing headliner to using a hard liner as a
replacement(except, of course, the hand rails).

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, mail@t… wrote:

My F30 had the headliner replaced by the previous owner with
something like white formica or some sort of white plastic. He
said
that the headliner was attached to very thin pieces of plywood
which
he removed and used as a templete for the plastic. It is held up
like the original one by the battons. As it is warming up on the
Texas coast, it is sagging in a few spots so I am probably going to
need to add another set of battons between the original ones to
give
just a bit more support. Overall though it looks great. I can’t
comment on how much work it was though since he didn’t say.

Bill

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ajlorman”
<ajlorman@y…>
wrote:

Lee:

Beyond confirming that many different boats have their inside and
outside grab rails bolted together, I can’t give you any help
since
I just bought my F-30. But I, too, have a sagging headliner and I
sure would be grateful if you would share some photos with the
group. I had given some thought to replacing the vinyl with a
solid
headliner like white Formica, but I really don’t know what’s
underneath. Has anyone else tried something like this?

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, JoelR <ohso2001@y…>
wrote:

I’m replacing the headliner on my F-30.

I’m in the middle of the job. I’ll try to explain what
I have found, and I think I’ll take pictures of it
before closing it back up.

Removing the old headliner (and headliner boards)
requires removing the two interior teak grabrails.

These grabrails have three plugs. I thought it would
be easy. (The plugs are glued in by the way)

The plugs have to be drilled out. What is revealed is
a bolt, and buried deeper into the grabrail is a nut.

To get to the nut I literally had to destroy the
interior grabrail. What remains after you fight cut
away teak to get to the nuts, are three bolts.

These bolts appear to extend through the cabin top and
are positioned (apparently) directly below two
exterior teak grabrails.

Rather than destroy the other grabrail inside the
cabin, I’d like to know if anyone out there has
successfully removed the interior grabrails (which are
apparently mounted on the same bolts as the exterior
grabrails) with success and how they did it.

Note: the two forward most attachments for the
exterior grabrails (which have three mounting points)
when exposed from inside the cabin, appear to be
machined stainless steel bolts with a phillips heads.
The forward two bolts for the exterior grabrail must
be removed from the inside of the cabin. This job
requires removing the forward headliner boards in the
main cabin.

I’m wondering if the three bolts aft of these are just
the opposite with a phillips head stainless steel bolt
that has to be accessed from the exterior of the
cabin.

There are three plugs on the exterior grabrails aft of
the forward two bolts, which do not have teak plugs.

And, of course, there are the three plugs on the
interior grabrails, that hide nuts.

It’s a strange situation.

Does anyone know how this works.

Thanks,

Lee

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5

Posted by JoelR (ohso2001@…>)

Deeper into the job, the F-30 headlines is indeed
glued onto thin plywood. It is a foam-backed vinyl.
The foam chalks and the headline separates from the
plywood. I am replacing the headline on the same
boards with a cloth back vinyl. I prefer the vinyl for
the acoustic properties, verses a hard surface such as
formica.

The inside and outside grabrails are bolted together.
The inside grabrails have a quarter inch nut buried
under the plugs. There is no way to access the bolt
without destroying the grabrail. Removing the aft
three plugs on the exterior grabrail reveals a
stainless steel flathead bolt that has a phillips
head. It is EPOXIED in below the plug and is almost
impossible to expose.

I have not found a way to make it possible to use the
screw head on this bolt to back out the bolt from the
interior rail. I do not think that if you could spin
the bolt that it would back off the nut anyway,
because the nut can turn in the inside grabrail.

Furthermore, trying to turn the nut once the interior
grabrail is exposed is difficult because the head in
the exterior grabrail turns with the nut.

Either all grabrails will have to be replaced, or if I
am lucky, I can salvage the exterior grabrails by
tapping the bolts out from the insde once they are
exposed by destroying the interior grabrail.

No matter what the conclusion, it is going to be a
difficult job replacing the grabrails because the
interior grabrails will have to be positioned below as
the holes for the bolts are drilled down through the
exterior grabrail holes for the bolts to line up for
re-assembly.

It is not a pleasant job, but the headliner has to be
replaced because of the failing backing on the vinyl
headliner. I tried spray adhesive and it worked for a
while, but the places where the spray adhesive were
applied made for a nastier problem when it came to
preparing the boards for the new vinyl laminate.

I have not removed the second interior headrail as yet
and am still contemplating how I am going to proceed.

I am taking pictures so others can see what’s up. I
expect all F-30s will have to go through this
operation at one time or another.

Califa




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6

Posted by David G. Evans (dgevans@…>)

Wow! One of those jobs that shouldn’t be a biiiiiiiiiiiiig deal, but turns out to be.
The practice of through-bolting the interior and exterior handrails is common and often suggested. Your experience shows the very clear downside to this. I’m glad now that our F-28 had no interior rails, and that when I added a pair, I attached them independently. Despite much advice to connect them with the exterior ones! I screwed and epoxied plywood strips along the cabin top and screwed the full-length rails to them. The starboard one guides you all the way to the head! But you still have to take them off the remove the headliner, an argument for the practice of attaching interior handrails to the cabinside at shoulder height.
dge

----- Original Message -----
From: JoelR
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Putting in a new headliner on my F-30 (1987)
Deeper into the job, the F-30 headlines is indeedglued onto thin plywood. It is a foam-backed vinyl.The foam chalks and the headline separates from theplywood. I am replacing the headline on the sameboards with a cloth back vinyl. I prefer the vinyl forthe acoustic properties, verses a hard surface such asformica.The inside and outside grabrails are bolted together.The inside grabrails have a quarter inch nut buriedunder the plugs. There is no way to access the boltwithout destroying the grabrail. Removing the aftthree plugs on the exterior grabrail reveals astainless steel flathead bolt that has a phillipshead. It is EPOXIED in below the plug and is almostimpossible to expose.I have not found a way to make it possible to use thescrew head on this bolt to back out the bolt from theinterior rail. I do not think that if you could spinthe bolt that it would back off the nut anyway,because the nut can turn in the inside grabrail.Furthermore, trying to turn the nut once the interiorgrabrail is exposed is difficult because the head inthe exterior grabrail turns with the nut.Either all grabrails will have to be replaced, or if Iam lucky, I can salvage the exterior grabrails bytapping the bolts out from the insde once they areexposed by destroying the interior grabrail.No matter what the conclusion, it is going to be adifficult job replacing the grabrails because theinterior grabrails will have to be positioned below asthe holes for the bolts are drilled down through theexterior grabrail holes for the bolts to line up forre-assembly.It is not a pleasant job, but the headliner has to bereplaced because of the failing backing on the vinylheadliner. I tried spray adhesive and it worked for awhile, but the places where the spray adhesive wereapplied made for a nastier problem when it came topreparing the boards for the new vinyl laminate.I have not removed the second interior headrail as yetand am still contemplating how I am going to proceed.I am taking pictures so others can see what’s up. Iexpect all F-30s will have to go through thisoperation at one time or another.Califa __________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

7

Posted by mdurki (vaughan@…>)

Fortunately not all F30s had interior hand rails; mine did not. I
replaced my overhead with Tileboard (found at any building supply). I
think that is what one of the previous letter’s referred to as
plastic. It was quick and easy and looks great. If you are not wedded
to the chushy look of the wrinkled vinyl, I recommend it.

8

Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)

I saw a hard board replacement recently and it looked good.
Definately an option when I have to do the job on my 36. Has anyone
done a hardboard conversion and installed acccess holes and plugs at
all the hardware locations and bolts?




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “mdurki” <vaughan@i…>
wrote:

Fortunately not all F30s had interior hand rails; mine did not. I
replaced my overhead with Tileboard (found at any building
supply). I
think that is what one of the previous letter’s referred to as
plastic. It was quick and easy and looks great. If you are not
wedded
to the chushy look of the wrinkled vinyl, I recommend it.

9

Posted by Ketch 22 (ketch_22@…>)

I put in a thin plywood with a Birch veneer. The Birch is very light colored
and has a very interesting grain, which a coat of Varathane enhanced. Looks
great.

On the F39, I didn’t feel the need for access holes. The panel itself is in two
pieces and is easy enough to remove. I did leave an extra wide gap where the
mizzen comes into the interior, to allow access to the bolts that hold the
aluminum collar in place.

tm
Ketch 22



-----Original Message-----
From: macks011 <macks04@…>
Sent: May 8, 2004 12:41 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Putting in a new headliner on my F-30 (1987)

\ \ I saw a hard board replacement recently and it looked good.
Definately an option when I have to do the job on my 36. Has anyone
done a hardboard conversion and installed acccess holes and plugs at
all the hardware locations and bolts?




--- In , "mdurki"
wrote:
> Fortunately not all F30s had interior hand rails; mine did not. I
> replaced my overhead with Tileboard (found at any building
supply). I
> think that is what one of the previous letter's referred to as
> plastic. It was quick and easy and looks great. If you are not
wedded
> to the chushy look of the wrinkled vinyl, I recommend it.

\ \
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ADVERTISEMENT
click here



\


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\

10

Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

Well, it sounds like a rigid headliner is quite doable, if you don’t
have to deal with interior grab rails, which, alas, I do.

Al Lorman
F-30 Ab Initio

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Ketch 22 <ketch_22@e…>
wrote:

I put in a thin plywood with a Birch veneer. The Birch is very
light colored and has a very interesting grain, which a coat of
Varathane enhanced. Looks great.

On the F39, I didn’t feel the need for access holes. The panel
itself is in two pieces and is easy enough to remove. I did leave an
extra wide gap where the mizzen comes into the interior, to allow
access to the bolts that hold the aluminum collar in place.

tm
Ketch 22

-----Original Message-----
From: macks011 <macks04@o…>
Sent: May 8, 2004 12:41 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Putting in a new headliner on my F-
30 (1987)

I saw a hard board replacement recently and it looked good.
Definately an option when I have to do the job on my 36. Has anyone

> done a hardboard conversion and installed acccess holes and plugs at
> all the hardware locations and bolts?
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "mdurki"
> wrote:
> > Fortunately not all F30s had interior hand rails; mine did not. I
> > replaced my overhead with Tileboard (found at any building
> supply). I
> > think that is what one of the previous letter's referred to as
> > plastic. It was quick and easy and looks great. If you are not
> wedded
> > to the chushy look of the wrinkled vinyl, I recommend it.
>
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
click here
> > > > > > > >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > > >