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1

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

All,
I’m asking for a little advice from the obviously knowledgeable
group. I did a little search through the archives of the group and
found a few references to some of these issues, but thought I’d ask
for updates.

First, blisters and their repair: Has anyone had a ‘blister job’ done
recently? When I hauled the boat for the keel cooler installation, I
noticed many many blisters in the bottom and especially in the
rudder. The rudder, I’m sure, needs to be removed, drained, probably
re-glassed as it appears as if it’s bursting at the seams on the
trailing edge. One thing about the bottom, though - I was amazed at
the construction. approximately 1 1/4" balsa core sandwiched between
two 3/8" thick layers of glass.I know gelcoat is porous, and that the
glass can get porous too (especially after 24 years of essentially
24/7/12 wet storage), but I’m wondering if I’d be creating more of a
problem than I’d be solving to have the blisters ground, filled, the
bottom barrier coated, etc.

So the question: has anyone had a blister job done, or done one
themselves? If so, how’d it go? what did you do to repair them? at
the end of the day did you feel you’d done a good thing to/for your
boat?

Second question is about topside paint. This 1980 hull was awl-
gripped in '96 I believe, and the paint is definitely showing its age
now. Anyone redone their topsides recently? what did you use?

Lastly (for now), this boat is my home. going into the winter
months, I was planning to install an air conditioner/heater system,
mostly for the heating potential. I’ve been recommended against a
reverse-cycle system because of the climate (Boston Harbor), but
thought I’d put it to the group as to system recommendations,
experiences, pitfalls, etc.

Thanks for your input to any/all of these questions!
Lance
Bright Star

2

Posted by Jacqui MacConnell (jacimacc@…>)

Hello Lance! The fellow who used to own my Freedom is
on his fourth, an F44. He had substantial refitting to
do, including blister repair. There is a great website
about it all, and he seems happy to help answer
questions, too. His website, with pictures on the
refit, is www.brigup.com; his e-mail is
sailordude@… He is somewhere nearby you this
Fall, last I read. His name is Brian Guptil, and his
boat is
“Cayenne.” There should be some answers there for
you.
Kind regards, Jacqui Mac, Sparrow, Bellingham, WA
State



— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote:

All,
I’m asking for a little advice from the obviously
knowledgeable
group. I did a little search through the archives of
the group and
found a few references to some of these issues, but
thought I’d ask
for updates.

First, blisters and their repair: Has anyone had a
‘blister job’ done
recently? When I hauled the boat for the keel cooler
installation, I
noticed many many blisters in the bottom and
especially in the
rudder. The rudder, I’m sure, needs to be removed,
drained, probably
re-glassed as it appears as if it’s bursting at the
seams on the
trailing edge. One thing about the bottom, though -
I was amazed at
the construction. approximately 1 1/4" balsa core
sandwiched between
two 3/8" thick layers of glass.I know gelcoat is
porous, and that the
glass can get porous too (especially after 24 years
of essentially
24/7/12 wet storage), but I’m wondering if I’d be
creating more of a
problem than I’d be solving to have the blisters
ground, filled, the
bottom barrier coated, etc.

So the question: has anyone had a blister job done,
or done one
themselves? If so, how’d it go? what did you do to
repair them? at
the end of the day did you feel you’d done a good
thing to/for your
boat?

Second question is about topside paint. This 1980
hull was awl-
gripped in '96 I believe, and the paint is
definitely showing its age
now. Anyone redone their topsides recently? what did
you use?

Lastly (for now), this boat is my home. going into
the winter
months, I was planning to install an air
conditioner/heater system,
mostly for the heating potential. I’ve been
recommended against a
reverse-cycle system because of the climate (Boston
Harbor), but
thought I’d put it to the group as to system
recommendations,
experiences, pitfalls, etc.

Thanks for your input to any/all of these questions!
Lance
Bright Star




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3

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

What can you tell us about the size and depth of the blisters? Any
chance they are just paint blisters and not involving the fbg?

Interesting comment about the rudder. Has the boat ever been berthed
somewhere very cold where it might have come out of the water during
the winter. I’ve got a theory about trapped water and freezing temps
doing stuff like that.

I’m not a big fan of reverse cycle systems in boats because of
concerns about efficiency. The only one I have experience with is AC
which was limited to dockside use unless you have a genset. That
system was on a friend’s boat. When my wife and I lived aboard I
installed a Hurricane Hydronic heating system. I can’t say enough
good things about hydronic heating. I think there are some pics of
the install in my photo folder. The hydronic heating could be used
underway for heating the boat and/or domestic hot water. Worked like
a dream. In the summer months I’d isolate the system to the engine
room so we could heat water without heating the boat. We were also
able to heat floors and lockers. Everything stayed nice and dry in
the winter.




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All,
I’m asking for a little advice from the obviously knowledgeable
group. I did a little search through the archives of the group and
found a few references to some of these issues, but thought I’d
ask
for updates.

First, blisters and their repair: Has anyone had a ‘blister job’
done
recently? When I hauled the boat for the keel cooler installation,
I
noticed many many blisters in the bottom and especially in the
rudder. The rudder, I’m sure, needs to be removed, drained,
probably
re-glassed as it appears as if it’s bursting at the seams on the
trailing edge. One thing about the bottom, though - I was amazed
at
the construction. approximately 1 1/4" balsa core sandwiched
between
two 3/8" thick layers of glass.I know gelcoat is porous, and that
the
glass can get porous too (especially after 24 years of essentially
24/7/12 wet storage), but I’m wondering if I’d be creating more of
a
problem than I’d be solving to have the blisters ground, filled,
the
bottom barrier coated, etc.

So the question: has anyone had a blister job done, or done one
themselves? If so, how’d it go? what did you do to repair them? at
the end of the day did you feel you’d done a good thing to/for
your
boat?

Second question is about topside paint. This 1980 hull was awl-
gripped in '96 I believe, and the paint is definitely showing its
age
now. Anyone redone their topsides recently? what did you use?

Lastly (for now), this boat is my home. going into the winter
months, I was planning to install an air conditioner/heater
system,
mostly for the heating potential. I’ve been recommended against a
reverse-cycle system because of the climate (Boston Harbor), but
thought I’d put it to the group as to system recommendations,
experiences, pitfalls, etc.

Thanks for your input to any/all of these questions!
Lance
Bright Star

4

Posted by katorpus (katorpus@…>)

Lance

Rest assured that the blisters AREN’T just in the paint. My F40
(Hull 61 of the 63 built) had 'em BAD when I bought it 7 years ago.

Briefly, here’s what I did: My boat had essentially been in the
water 24/7/(365 x 16) at this point…WARM water, at that.

Peeled ALL the gel coat below the water line. Ground out the weepy
spots with an angle grinder, since it became readily apparent that
the resin in the weepy spots was useless.

Dried the boat by using a steam cleaner (raises the hull temp,
driving out the moisture…also gets rid of the gunk that continues
to weep out of the weepy spots) This was a 6 month out-of-water
process that went from July until late November on the Texas Gulf
Coast. The steam cleaning was done at least weekly throughout that
period. Bear in mind this was a TRUE steam cleaner…not a “hotsy”
type hot water high pressure washer.

My rudder was wet enough that it drained water for days after I
drilled holes into it near the bottom. You need at least one hole up
high.

Once the moisture meter showed consistent readings throughout (I
really DON’T think I had saturation of the balsa core anywhere), we
went back with a new layer of mat and 5 coats of vinylester, topped
off by Interprotect 1000/2000 epoxy, then two bottom coats of RED
Petit Trinidad (70%+ copper).

Subsequent haulouts have shown consistent moisture readings and NO
recurrent blistering. I’m HAPPY.

Total cost of this part of the project was about $6000 for labor and
materials (7 years ago). The yard I used (Cove Harbor in Rockport,
TX) charged less per month to be on stands in the yard than the
local marinas were charging for a slip). Thus, I didn’t factor this
into the cost.

Yard crews did ALL of the work and the yard provided the steam
cleaner.

Winter onboard in Boston Harbor???..WOW! You oughta be able to
write a book on that one. Check out the Flagship Marine website for
A/C that ISN’T reverse cycle. They seem to have a good product
(Coast Guard keeps going back for more) at reasonable prices. They
regularly sell used units on e-bay as well (search on marine air
conditioner). I’d go for something between 16,000 btu and 18,500.
(Sorry, Brian Guptil, but if I’m gonna cool the boat, I want it to
be something cooler than 80 degrees). My boat has no A/C at present,
but I’ve been plotting and scheming and it’s on the “near horizon”.

As another commentary on blister…mine had (still has) numerous
blisters above and below the rub rail…well ABOVE the water line. I
left them alone. They exist only in the area of aft quarter and only
on the port side. This…to me…points more at blistering
resulting from errors during layup than to water intrusion reaction
(Sorry about that, Tillotson Pearson, but if you’re reading this,
what ELSE could it be?)

5

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

“…Check out the Flagship Marine website for A/C that ISN’T reverse
cycle…”

One “nay” vote for Flagship Marine here. I have a 16,000 BTU unit in
my 32 and I’m disappointed with the A/C performance. 16k should be
plenty but mine doesn’t come close to keeping up with the Tallahassee
summertime heat. Without question it’s nothin’ but HOT here, in the
90’s from 10 AM to 6 PM every single day from June 1st to October
1st, but I’m getting A/C performance more like a 10,000 BTU unit. It
can’t keep up. I should be doing much better than I am.

I’m completely outside my knowledge base about A/C but I’ve had
people look at it and I’ve tried whatever seemed reasonable. I’ve
talked to the Flagship guys repeatedly and they only say if there’s a
15 degree difference between the temperature of the air going into
the unit and the air coming out, it works as far as they’re
concerned. There is that much difference with mine but I’m not
getting cool. Others with bigger boats and 16k units are walking
around in sweaters.

The resistance heat in a Flagship unit is a bit different, too. The
air coming out isn’t hot, it’s warm. That’s OK, it ultimately heats
up the boat, but it does so slowly and you can’t huddle by a vent
when you get back to the dock and you’re freezing your a__ off.
Again, the heat works, but slowly.

I thought I did my homework on this purchase and Flagship does have
some nice features: it’s mostly stainless, it’s quiet, resistance
heat is simpler, it uses a standard thermostat, etc. I also thought I
was buying a unit of more than ample size but if you work through the
numbers at the Flagship website they seem to be recommending much
larger capacity than any other manufacturer. I didn’t really directly
compare this until mine was already bought and installed.

I haven’t found another owner of a Flagship unit to compare notes
with but, so far, put this Flagship Marine owner in the “nay” column.

6

Posted by katorpus (katorpus@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “rick_simonds”
<rick_simonds@y…> wrote:

“…Check out the Flagship Marine website for A/C that ISN’T
reverse
cycle…”

One “nay” vote for Flagship Marine here. I have a 16,000 BTU unit
in
my 32 and I’m disappointed with the A/C performance. 16k should be
plenty but mine doesn’t come close to keeping up with the
Tallahassee
summertime heat. Without question it’s nothin’ but HOT here, in
the
90’s from 10 AM to 6 PM every single day from June 1st to October
1st, but I’m getting A/C performance more like a 10,000 BTU unit.
It
can’t keep up. I should be doing much better than I am.

It’s hot here too!! (Corpus Christi, TX) See below

I’m completely outside my knowledge base about A/C but I’ve had
people look at it and I’ve tried whatever seemed reasonable. I’ve
talked to the Flagship guys repeatedly and they only say if
there’s a
15 degree difference between the temperature of the air going into
the unit and the air coming out, it works as far as they’re
concerned. There is that much difference with mine but I’m not
getting cool. Others with bigger boats and 16k units are walking
around in sweaters.

I would think you ought to be able to cool a 32 with 16k. One of the
things that will make this NOT work is supply vent location. If too
much air is being dumped too close to the unit, you’ll re-cool the
same air over and over and the “nether regions” will never cool
down. Also, make sure you aren’t cooling the bilge by drawing any
return air from it. Light up a cigar with the boat closed up and the
a/c on…you’ll learn a LOT about how the air flows and where.

You didn’t say how old the boat is, but I’ve done the following to
mine and been able to cool it to a bearable temp with a 6000 btu
window unit hanging in the companionway (additional circulation from
interior fans to get the cool air forward).

I bought two of those “patio misters” from Home Depot (they were $17
each last year, about double that now). These are hoses with
compression fittings and tiny nozzles that put out an ultra-fine
mist. Hooked to a garden hose and stretched the length of the
foredeck. Close the valve enough that ALL the water that is emitted
during the day evaporates. This will keep the deck a LOT cooler. I
also blocked off the two deck hatches from inside with pieces of
foil faced bubble pack. This cuts down a tremendous amount of heat
gain, as I have no external hatch canvas. One of these days I’ll get
around to insulating the rear bulkhead between the lazarettes and
the aft cabin with the same stuff. Meanwhile, I blocked off the
engine air supply that pulls air from the aft cabin into the engine
compartment. My headliner’s getting tired. When I replace it, I’ll
insulate the inner side of the deck in the living areas with the
same foil faced bubble pack.

If you want to “figure further” on what might be wrong with your
installation…check the cfm on your fan versus some of the ones on
other installations that “work”. If you can “catch” the owner when
he’s doing a startup from a hot cabin, measure the return air temp
and the cooled air at the supply grill. If it’s close to what you
have, then his unit wouldn’t do any better in your boat and the
problem lies in the air flow design or the heat gain or the air
infiltration from somewhere.

The resistance heat in a Flagship unit is a bit different, too.
The
air coming out isn’t hot, it’s warm. That’s OK, it ultimately
heats
up the boat, but it does so slowly and you can’t huddle by a vent
when you get back to the dock and you’re freezing your a__ off.
Again, the heat works, but slowly.

If you have propane, get a couple of clay flower pots and put them
upside down on the stove burners for “immediate warmth”…do NOT go
to sleep with the stove burning!! If you don’t have propane, get one
of those $15 ceramic heaters from Wal-Mart to give yourself a “hot
spot”

I thought I did my homework on this purchase and Flagship does
have
some nice features: it’s mostly stainless, it’s quiet, resistance
heat is simpler, it uses a standard thermostat, etc. I also
thought I
was buying a unit of more than ample size but if you work through
the
numbers at the Flagship website they seem to be recommending much
larger capacity than any other manufacturer. I didn’t really
directly
compare this until mine was already bought and installed.

My flush deck hull (and all others) put most btu calculations on
the “light” side for cooling, methinks! No “shady side” on the
raised cabintop, you know? All that freeboard…it’s like the whole
boat should be calculated as if you were cooling a pilothouse!

I haven’t found another owner of a Flagship unit to compare notes
with but, so far, put this Flagship Marine owner in the “nay”
column.