Re: Digest Number 821

Posted by loren beach (sailaway10@…>)

(Long Sigh…)
Note that Mr. Pascoe is considering to be a self-inflated embarrassment
to the surveying industry by at least one experienced surveyor that I
know. His comments on poor coring in hulls do seem to be spot on, but
elsewhere in his site he used to doubt whether keels were a good idea
on sailboats. I suspect that 99.9% of his business is powerboats –
built poorly from the git-go.

As to moisture meters, treat it like a preliminary cancer diagnosis –
i.e. get a second opinion from another “doctor”/surveyor with his/her
own meter and also an experienced hammer to back up the findings.
Whether of not the boat was originally sold with track, someone could
have installed it… and water can get into coring anywhere the
surface is pierced for cleats, stanchions, pulpits, etc etc. Once in,
the moisture stays until removed.

Knowing that all original sealants and bedding compounds have a life
measured in XX years - maybe a decade or two,
Experiment: try asking around among your friends to see who has
re-bedded ALL their deck fittings on their boat (any boat over a decade
in age). My guess is that no hands will go up. We all have the human
failing of “out of sight out of mind” for this type of maintenance.
Then comes the survey to sell the family yacht for something like its
perceived (and assumed) value… and suddenly the much-ignored
“elephant in the room” becomes visible and shocking!
(Sound of hand smacking forehead: "what? water rots balsa wood??!!
Nooooooooooooo…!)

The boat might be just fine otherwise, and the owner will adjust the
price to reflect what was really his deferred maintenance that he saved
a buck on and now must give up 3 of those same bucks in the sale. …
Kind of like selling it with a sick engine and lowering the price by
the amount to install a new one.

Do you have a good yard with real experience in deck repair? What is
their quote for re-bedding all the hardware?

Best of luck,

…and back into lurk mode,
Loren




On Feb 9, 2006, at 8:36 AM, freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I agree with Dave’s observations of the differences in moisture
readings. Also, read this:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm

There is an other method of checking and repairing: from below. If
you drill a hole in the suspect area from below and check, you can
then drill a next hole, until you find dry balsa. Then you can
remove, patch by patch, the underside of the laminate, epoxy in
patches of foam and cover with the original laminate, or a new
layout. Of course, you will have to work upside down.

Posted by mike cunningham (seychellois_lib@…>)

Loren,

I’m not sure lack of rebedding is really the major
culpret. If your bedding fails you just have a leak -
so long as the core is isolated from the hole the
hardware is mounted into. In my mind the trick is to
ensure that, over time, all your hardware is mounted
through an epoxy “pad” that isolates the mounting hole
from the core. Then, when the bedding fails, you get a
leak but it can’t reach the core.

Having said that you are certainly right that owners
have to take action. Freedom sure did not install
these pads when the boats were built.

— loren beach <sailaway10@…> wrote:

(Long Sigh…)
Note that Mr. Pascoe is considering to be a
self-inflated embarrassment
to the surveying industry by at least one
experienced surveyor that I
know. His comments on poor coring in hulls do seem
to be spot on, but
elsewhere in his site he used to doubt whether keels
were a good idea
on sailboats. I suspect that 99.9% of his business
is powerboats –
built poorly from the git-go.

As to moisture meters, treat it like a preliminary
cancer diagnosis –
i.e. get a second opinion from another
“doctor”/surveyor with his/her
own meter and also an experienced hammer to back up
the findings.
Whether of not the boat was originally sold with
track, someone could
have installed it… and water can get into coring
anywhere the
surface is pierced for cleats, stanchions, pulpits,
etc etc. Once in,
the moisture stays until removed.

Knowing that all original sealants and bedding
compounds have a life
measured in XX years - maybe a decade or two,
Experiment: try asking around among your friends
to see who has
re-bedded ALL their deck fittings on their boat (any
boat over a decade
in age). My guess is that no hands will go up. We
all have the human
failing of “out of sight out of mind” for this type
of maintenance.
Then comes the survey to sell the family yacht for
something like its
perceived (and assumed) value… and suddenly the
much-ignored
“elephant in the room” becomes visible and shocking!

(Sound of hand smacking forehead: "what? water rots
balsa wood??!!
Nooooooooooooo…!)

The boat might be just fine otherwise, and the owner
will adjust the
price to reflect what was really his deferred
maintenance that he saved
a buck on and now must give up 3 of those same bucks
in the sale. …
Kind of like selling it with a sick engine and
lowering the price by
the amount to install a new one.

Do you have a good yard with real experience in deck
repair? What is
their quote for re-bedding all the hardware?

Best of luck,

…and back into lurk mode,
Loren

On Feb 9, 2006, at 8:36 AM,
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I agree with Dave’s observations of the
differences in moisture
readings. Also, read this:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm

There is an other method of checking and
repairing: from below. If
you drill a hole in the suspect area from below
and check, you can
then drill a next hole, until you find dry balsa.
Then you can
remove, patch by patch, the underside of the
laminate, epoxy in
patches of foam and cover with the original
laminate, or a new
layout. Of course, you will have to work upside
down.


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