Re: Freedom 25 Jib--(actually a Staysail)

Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)

Hello George. My “I” dimension is 28.5 feet, but the staysail is apx
27.5", or a bit less, on the luff, to make room for the Harken
staysail furler. The leech is a bit shorter-just enough for the clew
to clear the top of the upper lifeline. The tack is attached to the
eye on the deck, just under the back edge of the bow pulpit. The LP
is 12.17’. I assume you could use a deck sweeper style, but you’d
have to skirt the sail after every tack.

I have another staysail that mounts on the eye on top of the gunmount
tube, but it does not give me near the upwind power as the one tacked
to the deck. My sailmaker carefully measured my boat to get the right
dimensions, and to give me as many sf as possible, while not having
to skirt the staysail after each tack. The staysail has an internal
luff wire, which is no-stretch, and also helps with using the
staysail furler.

I also installed a Martec folding prop, which gives additional speed,
which increases pointing ability.

I lead the staysail sheets (inside of the lifelines) to ratchamatic
blocks attached to the bottom of the stanchions, near the aft end of
the cabin. From the blocks, the sheets go to a Harken cam cleat,
located on top of the "flat spot " of the cockpit coaming, next to
the cabin. The camcleat is mounted onto a Harken “extreme angle”
fairlead, so the sheets can be trimmed, cleated, and released from
the high side of the boat. I am still experimenting with this rig,
and hope to improve it. I use a small whisker pole on the staysail,
downwind, and also on broad reaches. It makes a huge difference. The
ratchamatic blocks have snap shackles, so I can move them outboard of
the lifelines on long downwind legs.

With this staysail, folding propeller, and use of the whisker pole on
the staysail, I am very competitive with most of the other boats. I
never use the spinnaker, and always race in the non-spinnaker class-
PHRF. Guess it’s a carryover from my years of racing Star boats in
my youth.

Good luck. Charlie
PS My F25 is the round mast version. Perhaps the narrow, rotating
mast version F25s don’t need to go to this trouble to be competitive
upwind.




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, George Deyett
<george_deyett@…> wrote:

I have using a UPS on a F25 and it is very good for close
reaching but not upwind. I usualIy tack the UPS to the spinnaker pole
which is extended 3 feet. I have been thinking of a staysail for true
upwind work.

Charlie,

Can you tell me what the luff dimension is on your staysail? How
does it sheet? Inside or outside the lifelines when close hauled?
Where does the lead block go?

George

“Charlie L.” <clivaday@…> wrote:
I have experimented with roller furlers, and different
sized headsails
on two F21s and now my round mast F25, in an attempt to improve
upwind
performance, and ease of handling. I first used a Doyle UPS sail,
with
internal low/no stretch luff line, on a Harken 1851 small staysail
furler on the F21s. The UPS is a cut between a genoa and a
spinnaker,
and is made of nylon, with an LP of about 12.4 feet (a 200% sail).
The
UPS has a full leech/roach, and will sail dead downwind without a
pole.
It will also improve power and pointing upwind, and is easily
furled.
Full info is on the Doyle Sails website. First sail I bought for my
F25
was a UPS. After buying my F25 I talked to a great Gulf Coast
sailor,
who successfully raced a f25. He used a 200% staysail, with a 12.4
LP,
tacked to the eye on the deck (not the one on the spinnaker tube).
This
gave him a longer luff/leech/foot & LP, and more sf. I had Schurr
Sails
of Pensacola make a similar sail for me out of mylar/kevlar. It has
a
wire luff, and is mounted on a Harken 1852 large staysail furler.
Upwind performance is greatly improved, and the furler works well–
but
you must have the line-lead/(first furling line block) properly
aligned
for ease in furling. I also considered using a full furler with a
foil,
but think the staysail furler, with the wire luff, is all I need.
If I
did use a full furler, I would try the Alido furler, which has its
own
halyard, which puts no pressure on the mast. As a frequent solo
racer,
I don’t want to fool with checkstays/backstays. Most om the races I
sail are round the buoys, 5-12 mile races, and I am very successful
in
winning my share. I strongly recommend that you use the 200%, LP of
12.4’ staysail, tacked to the deck. I tried a similar sail with a
9’
LP, and it does not perform nearly as well as the 12.4 LP. Good
luck.
Charlie, ChurchLady, F25 #257, round carbon fiber mast

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “simon_dubberley”
<simon@>
wrote:

Has anyone thought of installing a baby Profurl with about 120%
jib
and adding running backstays to improve the pointing ability of
the
boat? I find hoisting the camberspar jib whilst sailing single-
handed
almost impossible, if not bloody dangerous!

Simon

Freedom 25 Round Carbon Mast


Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
today!

Posted by George Deyett (george_deyett@…>)
Charlie, My F25 has a rotating mast. I find that getting the correct rotation on the mast makes a big difference in upwind performance. When the wind is up and if everything is trimmed correctly she goes upwind okay (not great). But in light air (under 10 knots) the boat is under powered and really needs more sail up. When cruising I just resort to the “iron jib”. Your solution sounds like a lot more fun and certainly more fuel efficient. Thanks for the info. George"Charlie L." <clivaday@…> wrote: Hello George. My “I” dimension is 28.5 feet, but the staysail is apx 27.5", or a bit less, on the luff, to make room for the Harken staysail furler. The leech is a bit shorter-just enough for the clew to clear the top of the upper lifeline. The tack is attached to the eye on the deck, just under the back edge of the bow pulpit. The LP is 12.17’. I assume you could use a deck sweeper style, but you’d have to skirt the sail after every tack.I have another staysail that mounts on the eye on top of the gunmount tube, but it does not give me near the upwind power as the one tacked to the deck. My sailmaker carefully measured my boat to get the right dimensions, and to give me as many sf as possible, while not having to skirt the staysail after each tack. The staysail has an internal luff wire, which is no-stretch, and also helps with using the
staysail furler.I also installed a Martec folding prop, which gives additional speed, which increases pointing ability.I lead the staysail sheets (inside of the lifelines) to ratchamatic blocks attached to the bottom of the stanchions, near the aft end of the cabin. From the blocks, the sheets go to a Harken cam cleat, located on top of the "flat spot " of the cockpit coaming, next to the cabin. The camcleat is mounted onto a Harken “extreme angle” fairlead, so the sheets can be trimmed, cleated, and released from the high side of the boat. I am still experimenting with this rig, and hope to improve it. I use a small whisker pole on the staysail, downwind, and also on broad reaches. It makes a huge difference. The ratchamatic blocks have snap shackles, so I can move them outboard of the lifelines on long downwind legs. With this staysail, folding propeller, and use of the whisker pole on the
staysail, I am very competitive with most of the other boats. I never use the spinnaker, and always race in the non-spinnaker class-PHRF. Guess it’s a carryover from my years of racing Star boats in my youth.Good luck. CharliePS My F25 is the round mast version. Perhaps the narrow, rotating mast version F25s don’t need to go to this trouble to be competitive upwind.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, George Deyett <george_deyett@…> wrote:>> > I have using a UPS on a F25 and it is very good for close reaching but not upwind. I usualIy tack the UPS to the spinnaker pole which is extended 3 feet. I have been thinking of a staysail for true upwind work. > > > Charlie,> > Can you tell me what the luff dimension is on your staysail? How does it sheet? Inside or outside the
lifelines when close hauled? Where does the lead block go? > > George> > “Charlie L.” <clivaday@…> wrote:> I have experimented with roller furlers, and different sized headsails > on two F21s and now my round mast F25, in an attempt to improve upwind > performance, and ease of handling. I first used a Doyle UPS sail, with > internal low/no stretch luff line, on a Harken 1851 small staysail > furler on the F21s. The UPS is a cut between a genoa and a spinnaker, > and is made of nylon, with an LP of about 12.4 feet (a 200% sail). The > UPS has a full leech/roach, and will sail dead downwind without a pole. > It will also improve power and pointing upwind, and is easily furled. > Full info is on the Doyle Sails website. First sail I bought for my F25 > was a UPS. After buying my F25 I talked to a great Gulf Coast sailor,

who successfully raced a f25. He used a 200% staysail, with a 12.4 LP, > tacked to the eye on the deck (not the one on the spinnaker tube). This > gave him a longer luff/leech/foot & LP, and more sf. I had Schurr Sails > of Pensacola make a similar sail for me out of mylar/kevlar. It has a > wire luff, and is mounted on a Harken 1852 large staysail furler. > Upwind performance is greatly improved, and the furler works well–but > you must have the line-lead/(first furling line block) properly aligned > for ease in furling. I also considered using a full furler with a foil, > but think the staysail furler, with the wire luff, is all I need. If I > did use a full furler, I would try the Alido furler, which has its own > halyard, which puts no pressure on the mast. As a frequent solo racer, > I don’t want to fool with checkstays/backstays.
Most om the races I > sail are round the buoys, 5-12 mile races, and I am very successful in > winning my share. I strongly recommend that you use the 200%, LP of > 12.4’ staysail, tacked to the deck. I tried a similar sail with a 9’ > LP, and it does not perform nearly as well as the 12.4 LP. Good luck. > Charlie, ChurchLady, F25 #257, round carbon fiber mast > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “simon_dubberley” <simon@> > wrote:> >> > Has anyone thought of installing a baby Profurl with about 120% jib> > and adding running backstays to improve the pointing ability of the> > boat? I find hoisting the camberspar jib whilst sailing single-handed> > almost impossible, if not bloody dangerous!> > > > Simon> > > > Freedom 25
Round Carbon Mast> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!>
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Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)

Hello George. If I had a wingmast, I would probably buy a used like-
new/new Melges 24 jib from Mastheadsailinggear.com. The dimensions
are almost identical to my racing staysail, except that the foot and
LP are a bit shorter. They have numerous new/like new used sails for
Melges 24s. I bought one -a New Nuclear Kevlar M24 jib- from them for
$500, and still use it in heavy weather. I believe it would be a
great light weather addition to your wing mast main. They have an
excellent selection from $250 up, and will install the luff wire for
you. I use mine on a Harken staysail furler. Happy sailing! Charlie



— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, George Deyett
<george_deyett@…> wrote:

Charlie,

My F25 has a rotating mast. I find that getting the correct
rotation on the mast makes a big difference in upwind performance.
When the wind is up and if everything is trimmed correctly she goes
upwind okay (not great). But in light air (under 10 knots) the boat
is under powered and really needs more sail up. When cruising I just
resort to the “iron jib”. Your solution sounds like a lot more fun
and certainly more fuel efficient. Thanks for the info.

George

“Charlie L.” <clivaday@…> wrote:
Hello George. My “I” dimension is 28.5 feet, but the
staysail is apx
27.5", or a bit less, on the luff, to make room for the Harken
staysail furler. The leech is a bit shorter-just enough for the
clew
to clear the top of the upper lifeline. The tack is attached to the
eye on the deck, just under the back edge of the bow pulpit. The LP
is 12.17’. I assume you could use a deck sweeper style, but you’d
have to skirt the sail after every tack.

I have another staysail that mounts on the eye on top of the
gunmount
tube, but it does not give me near the upwind power as the one
tacked
to the deck. My sailmaker carefully measured my boat to get the
right
dimensions, and to give me as many sf as possible, while not having
to skirt the staysail after each tack. The staysail has an internal
luff wire, which is no-stretch, and also helps with using the
staysail furler.

I also installed a Martec folding prop, which gives additional
speed,
which increases pointing ability.

I lead the staysail sheets (inside of the lifelines) to ratchamatic
blocks attached to the bottom of the stanchions, near the aft end
of
the cabin. From the blocks, the sheets go to a Harken cam cleat,
located on top of the "flat spot " of the cockpit coaming, next to
the cabin. The camcleat is mounted onto a Harken “extreme angle”
fairlead, so the sheets can be trimmed, cleated, and released from
the high side of the boat. I am still experimenting with this rig,
and hope to improve it. I use a small whisker pole on the staysail,
downwind, and also on broad reaches. It makes a huge difference.
The
ratchamatic blocks have snap shackles, so I can move them outboard
of
the lifelines on long downwind legs.

With this staysail, folding propeller, and use of the whisker pole
on
the staysail, I am very competitive with most of the other boats. I
never use the spinnaker, and always race in the non-spinnaker class-
PHRF. Guess it’s a carryover from my years of racing Star boats in
my youth.

Good luck. Charlie
PS My F25 is the round mast version. Perhaps the narrow, rotating
mast version F25s don’t need to go to this trouble to be
competitive
upwind.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, George Deyett
<george_deyett@> wrote:

I have using a UPS on a F25 and it is very good for close
reaching but not upwind. I usualIy tack the UPS to the spinnaker
pole
which is extended 3 feet. I have been thinking of a staysail for
true
upwind work.

Charlie,

Can you tell me what the luff dimension is on your staysail? How
does it sheet? Inside or outside the lifelines when close hauled?
Where does the lead block go?

George

“Charlie L.” <clivaday@> wrote:
I have experimented with roller furlers, and different
sized headsails
on two F21s and now my round mast F25, in an attempt to improve
upwind
performance, and ease of handling. I first used a Doyle UPS sail,
with
internal low/no stretch luff line, on a Harken 1851 small
staysail
furler on the F21s. The UPS is a cut between a genoa and a
spinnaker,
and is made of nylon, with an LP of about 12.4 feet (a 200%
sail).
The
UPS has a full leech/roach, and will sail dead downwind without a
pole.
It will also improve power and pointing upwind, and is easily
furled.
Full info is on the Doyle Sails website. First sail I bought for
my
F25
was a UPS. After buying my F25 I talked to a great Gulf Coast
sailor,
who successfully raced a f25. He used a 200% staysail, with a
12.4
LP,
tacked to the eye on the deck (not the one on the spinnaker
tube).
This
gave him a longer luff/leech/foot & LP, and more sf. I had Schurr
Sails
of Pensacola make a similar sail for me out of mylar/kevlar. It
has
a
wire luff, and is mounted on a Harken 1852 large staysail furler.
Upwind performance is greatly improved, and the furler works well-

but

you must have the line-lead/(first furling line block) properly
aligned
for ease in furling. I also considered using a full furler with a
foil,
but think the staysail furler, with the wire luff, is all I need.
If I
did use a full furler, I would try the Alido furler, which has
its
own
halyard, which puts no pressure on the mast. As a frequent solo
racer,
I don’t want to fool with checkstays/backstays. Most om the races
I
sail are round the buoys, 5-12 mile races, and I am very
successful
in
winning my share. I strongly recommend that you use the 200%, LP
of
12.4’ staysail, tacked to the deck. I tried a similar sail with a
9’
LP, and it does not perform nearly as well as the 12.4 LP. Good
luck.
Charlie, ChurchLady, F25 #257, round carbon fiber mast

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “simon_dubberley”
<simon@>
wrote:

Has anyone thought of installing a baby Profurl with about 120%
jib
and adding running backstays to improve the pointing ability of
the
boat? I find hoisting the camberspar jib whilst sailing single-
handed
almost impossible, if not bloody dangerous!

Simon

Freedom 25 Round Carbon Mast


Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
today!


Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.