Re: Re: Running backs...

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1

Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

Hey Lance,
Speaking of running backs, will Mulroney and Faulk run
through the Colts this week? What a game, huh. And how 'bout your
Sox. This could be quite a year for Boston sports fans.
Did you get your big hdtv yet?
TW



At 03:06 PM 11/2/2007, you wrote:

Al,
yes, the previous owners fitted the boat with running backs for a
couple reasons. The first is that they had a custom bowsprit fitted,
and the jibstay goes to the end of that, so the jib is bigger than a
standard 45 jib. Paul Dennis felt that with the extra size, plus the
addition of a gennaker, the rig could use the running backs. There are
two positions for the backs - forward, for use while under jib, and a
back position where the running backs are tacked to the same padeye as
the turning blocks for the gennaker. This gives a better leverage angle
when running with that big sail.

The running backs are high-tech line attached to the mast at around the
same height as the forestay. They come to a 4:1 lewmar block and tackle
with integrated cleat.

Lance

— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“Al Lorman” <ajl@…> wrote:

Lance:

When you fly your gennaker, do you rig running backstays?

Al

F30 Ab Initio

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2

Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)

Oddly enough on Marquesa we have running forestays on the mizzen mast.
I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are they
used?

George

3

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
George,I assume you have a removable mizzen stay-sail stay. You would fly a staysail here when reaching.On 11/2/07, George Huffman <
thatboatguy2@…> wrote:




Oddly enough on Marquesa we have running forestays on the mizzen mast.
I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are they
used?

George




– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area

4

Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
I’ll take some photos Jay. They are actual running stays on either side of the mast and attached forward of the mast on the house. Since the attachments are not quick release I’m lead to believe that this is where they live. Up until now I’ve had other mysteries to occupy my time and I always thought that perhaps it would become obvious under sail. GeorgeJay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote: George,I assume you have a removable mizzen stay-sail stay. You would fly a staysail here when reaching.On 11/2/07, George Huffman < thatboatguy2@yahoo.com> wrote: Oddly enough on Marquesa we have running forestays on the mizzen mast. I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are they used? George – Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

5

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

George

Those aren’t running forestays, they are running backstays for the
mizzen staysail, as mentioned earlier.

They weren’t rigged with quick releases originally, just the screw
pin shackles. They should be moved back on the toe rail to a point
that “makes sense” for any given sail or point of sail when flying
any of the mizzen staysails…say in the vicinity of the winches or
even further aft. This is why they are rigged with blocks with so
much length in the adjusting lines.

They “live” on the toerail just forward of the side lifeline gates
(when not in use) in order to keep them clear of either boom when
tacking. Snug them up when in port, but be sure and ease them when
sailing without a staysail, because they restrict mast bend at the
tip of the mast and induce it in the center (Remember that the mizzen
mast, by design, will bend off the wind as much as 14" when under
sail).

They attach at the plate on the mast top (rather than fractionally)
because the wire-luffed staysail puts ALL of its stress at the top of
the halyard turning block and the car on the track on the cabintop
(or toerail if you’re running and tack the luff to the toerail).

I guess Freedom figured that, with all of the rigamarole you have to
go through with end-boom sheeting etc in order to fly the staysail,
it wasn’t going to be used unless you planned on staying on the same
tack for a good while, so “Why bother with quick releases on the
running backstays?”




— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, george huffman
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:

I’ll take some photos Jay. They are actual running stays on either
side of the mast and attached forward of the mast on the house.
Since the attachments are not quick release I’m lead to believe that
this is where they live. Up until now I’ve had other mysteries to
occupy my time and I always thought that perhaps it would become
obvious under sail.

George

Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:
George,

I assume you have a removable mizzen stay-sail stay. You would fly
a staysail here when reaching.

On 11/2/07, George Huffman < thatboatguy2@…>
wrote: Oddly enough on Marquesa we
have running forestays on the mizzen mast.
I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are
they
used?

George

–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

6

Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)

Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines or toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc versions with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is apparently one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George

7

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
George,I really do not know. I assume any good sailmaker could do it for you. There has been references in earlier posts to a sailmaker who does alot of Freedom sails, see if you can find the company. I do not have a mizzen staysail, but I found the mizzen stay stored below when I purchased her.
On 11/3/07, George Huffman <thatboatguy2@…> wrote:




Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines or toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc versions with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is apparently one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George




– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area

8

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


“There has been references in earlier posts to a
sailmaker who does alot of Freedom sails” Haarstick Sailmakers, http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com/



From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Glen
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 1:39 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Running backs…

\




George,

I really do not know. I assume any good sailmaker could do it for you. There
has been references in earlier posts to a sailmaker who does alot of Freedom
sails, see if you can find the company. I do not have a mizzen staysail, but I
found the mizzen stay stored below when I purchased her.

On 11/3/07, George Huffman
<thatboatguy2@…>
wrote:




Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines or toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc versions with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is apparently one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George







\

Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area


\

9

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

All catketches have them, I think. They are running backs, but
attached to the front of the mizzen. The original wrap around
arrangement had a swiveling crane on the aft 180* of the mizzen, so
the backs could not be attached to the side or aft side of the mast
top. On my UK F35 ck I had only one running backstay.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:

Oddly enough on Marquesa we have running forestays on the mizzen
mast.
I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are
they
used?

George

10

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

George,

Many a sloop sailor traded in their light weather genoa or half
winder for a gennaker. Here in the NL’s, every sailmaker has lots of
these sails for sail second hand. It must be the same in the USA. If
you measure your approximate luff, leech and foot size, you must be
able to find a light ripstop secon hand sail for not too much money.

Michel


— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:

Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines or
toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc versions
with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for
running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is apparently
one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George

11

Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)

That’s a great idea Michel!

I’ll tell you though we are leaning towards “new” on everything we do
to/with this boat. She will be our home for some years to come and
while I realize that boats are a constant maintenance item (I have
based my economic existence on this for over a decade) one can
certainly set out with one’s best foot forward. I can tell from your
photos of your refit that I may be preaching to the choir. heh heh
That’s one lovely boat you have there.

George

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:

George,

Many a sloop sailor traded in their light weather genoa or half
winder for a gennaker. Here in the NL’s, every sailmaker has lots of
these sails for sail second hand. It must be the same in the USA. If
you measure your approximate luff, leech and foot size, you must be
able to find a light ripstop secon hand sail for not too much money.

Michel

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:

Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines or
toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc versions
with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for
running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is apparently
one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George

12

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Thanks George, and I’m still not finished. But are we ever?


— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:

That’s a great idea Michel!

I’ll tell you though we are leaning towards “new” on everything we
do
to/with this boat. She will be our home for some years to come and
while I realize that boats are a constant maintenance item (I have
based my economic existence on this for over a decade) one can
certainly set out with one’s best foot forward. I can tell from
your
photos of your refit that I may be preaching to the choir. heh
heh
That’s one lovely boat you have there.

George

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@> wrote:

George,

Many a sloop sailor traded in their light weather genoa or half
winder for a gennaker. Here in the NL’s, every sailmaker has
lots of
these sails for sail second hand. It must be the same in the
USA. If
you measure your approximate luff, leech and foot size, you must
be
able to find a light ripstop secon hand sail for not too much
money.

Michel

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:

Hey Jay,

Most of that makes sense to me now. We don’t have life lines
or
toe
rails on our boat as it’s one of the original design cc
versions
with
a teak taff rail. We also don’t have wishbones or carbon spars
although maybe someday…

I have found attachment points aft that would make sense for
running
backs.

So… who should we turn to for a mizzen staysail? We are
clearly
rigged up for one as the halyard is there. Sadly it is
apparently
one
of the things that got stripped from the boat.

George

13

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

Likewise the running backs on the F-25. The entire mast swivelled,
and the running backs where attached at the front of the mast to
counteract the pull of the spinnaker. Remember, you only set the one
on the windward side of the boat. Herm

At 06:47 AM 11/5/2007, you wrote:

All catketches have them, I think. They are running backs, but
attached to the front of the mizzen. The original wrap around
arrangement had a swiveling crane on the aft 180* of the mizzen, so
the backs could not be attached to the side or aft side of the mast
top. On my UK F35 ck I had only one running backstay.

— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:

Oddly enough on Marquesa we have running forestays on the mizzen
mast.
I was wondering if any other F40 CC CK’s have these and when are
they
used?

George