reefing question

Posted by Weeks MD, Andrew (aweeks@…>)


Does anyone have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a “87 F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level of the gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks Windfall

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)

Andy:

I have the same boat and my reefing lines came with the hooks as shown in the manual. Aside from the fact that the hook can fall out of the cringle when not under tension, it has not been a problem.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

P.S. My kids really enjoyed the bird’s nest, complete with eggs, which I brought home this spring.

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Weeks MD, AndrewSent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:41 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question
Does anyone have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a “87 F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level of the gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks WindfallIRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Posted by Jeff Chale (jwchale@…>)

I believe the hooks had a block attached and the end of the reef line was secured to the mast padeye. The problem on sails (not made by Haarstick) is that there is supposed to be two grommets directly underneath the large reef ggrommetwhere the hook fits. A piece of bungee is tied between the two smaller grommets and holds the lose end of the hook on the sail so they won’t fall out. I have the same problem on my F30 with newer sails as well - no two small grommets with a bungee and the hook constantly fell out. I ended up securing the end of the reef line to the large grommet and calling it good. The problem with that is the first reef point becomes your third reef point in severe conditions and it is nice to simply take out the hook and secure it on the third point.

Jeff Chale
Seattle, WA"Lorman, Alvin J." <ajlorman@…> wrote:

Andy:

I have the same boat and my reefing lines came with the hooks as shown in the manual. Aside from the fact that the hook can fall out of the cringle when not under tension, it has not been a problem.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

P.S. My kids really enjoyed the bird’s nest, complete with eggs, which I brought home this spring.

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Weeks MD, AndrewSent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:41 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question
Does anyone have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a “87 F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level of the gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks Windfall

IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)

I asked Steve Haarstick to comment on the reefing issue. Here’s his reply:

Al,
I think some of the confusion regarding the hooks falling out of the tack reef grommets stems from the system used on the earlier Freedom models. The 44, 32 (Hoyt), and the 39 Pilot House all had the reefing grommets set back about 8" from the luff as they used a single line reefing system. The reef line was secured around the boom, through the foot, up to the clew reef, and down to the turning block at the aft end of the boom (same as current boats). However the clew reef line exited out the side of the boom through a double cheek block, up to a pulley attached to a hook which was in the tack reef grommet directly above the bearing surface of the first check block. It continued on around this pulley and down through the aft side of the forward cheek block to the base of the mast, and finally back to a stopper at the aft end of the cabin top.
When the halyard was lowered to reef the sail, only this one line needed to be winched in. You would keep grinding the line in until the leech reef was down and the bottom of the tack reef pulley bottomed out on top of the cheek blocks. This system seemed to be a good idea, but the friction was high and it took some time to get the reef down tight.
These systems were very prone to shaking the pulley/hook out of the tack reef, and thus the addition of the double small grommets about 4" below the tack reefs. When the hook/pulley was slid under this shock cord and hooked into the tack reef, it wouldn’t shake out.
The newer boats reverted to a standard single line clew reef, and a separate block and tackle with hook for the tack reefs. Without the added weight of the pretty heavy pulley attached to the old style system, and the tack reef grommets at the luff and not set back into the sail, the problem with the hook falling out when the sail was flogging seem to be eliminated, and we stopped putting the two grommets with the shock cord below the reef grommets.
I hope this helps.
Steve

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff ChaleSent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:44 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question

I believe the hooks had a block attached and the end of the reef line was secured to the mast padeye. The problem on sails (not made by Haarstick) is that there is supposed to be two grommets directly underneath the large reef ggrommetwhere the hook fits. A piece of bungee is tied between the two smaller grommets and holds the lose end of the hook on the sail so they won’t fall out. I have the same problem on my F30 with newer sails as well - no two small grommets with a bungee and the hook constantly fell out. I ended up securing the end of the reef line to the large grommet and calling it good. The problem with that is the first reef point becomes your third reef point in severe conditions and it is nice to simply take out the hook and secure it on the third point.

Jeff Chale
Seattle, WA"Lorman, Alvin J." <ajlorman@…> wrote:

Andy:

I have the same boat and my reefing lines came with the hooks as shown in the manual. Aside from the fact that the hook can fall out of the cringle when not under tension, it has not been a problem.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

P.S. My kids really enjoyed the bird’s nest, complete with eggs, which I brought home this spring.

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Weeks MD, AndrewSent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:41 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question
Does anyone have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a “87 F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level of the gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks Windfall

IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.


Yahoo! Mail MobileTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Posted by Weeks MD, Andrew (aweeks@…>)


Thanks for the help. I still have the
(soon to be retired) original sail and have always wondered what the extra
grommets were for!
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Lorman, Alvin J.
[mailto:ajlorman@…]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:24
AM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [freedomyachts2003]
reefing question

I asked Steve Haarstick
to comment on the reefing issue. Here’s his reply:

\



Al,
I think some of the confusion regarding the hooks
falling out of the tack reef grommets stems from the system used on the earlier
Freedom models. The 44, 32 (Hoyt), and the 39 Pilot House all had the reefing
grommets set back about 8" from the luff as they used a single line
reefing system. The reef line was secured around the boom, through the foot, up
to the clew reef, and down to the turning block at the aft end of the boom
(same as current boats). However the clew reef line exited out the side of the
boom through a double cheek block, up to a pulley attached to a hook which was
in the tack reef grommet directly above the bearing surface of the first check
block. It continued on around this pulley and down through the aft side of the
forward cheek block to the base of the mast, and finally back to a stopper at
the aft end of the cabin top.
When the halyard was lowered to reef the sail, only
this one line needed to be winched in. You would keep grinding the line in
until the leech reef was down and the bottom of the tack reef pulley bottomed
out on top of the cheek blocks. This system seemed to be a good idea, but the
friction was high and it took some time to get the reef down tight.
These systems were very prone to shaking the
pulley/hook out of the tack reef, and thus the addition of the double small
grommets about 4" below the tack reefs. When the hook/pulley was slid
under this shock cord and hooked into the tack reef, it wouldn’t shake out.
The newer boats reverted to a standard single line
clew reef, and a separate block and tackle with hook for the tack reefs.
Without the added weight of the pretty heavy pulley attached to the old style
system, and the tack reef grommets at the luff and not set back into the sail,
the problem with the hook falling out when the sail was flogging seem to be
eliminated, and we stopped putting the two grommets with the shock cord below
the reef grommets.
I hope this helps.
Steve

-----Original
Message-----
From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Chale
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:44
AM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [freedomyachts2003]
reefing question


I believe the hooks had a block attached and the end
of the reef line was secured to the mast padeye. The problem on sails
(not made by Haarstick) is that there is supposed to be two grommets directly
underneath the large reef ggrommetwhere the hook fits. A piece of bungee
is tied between the two smaller grommets and holds the lose end of the hook on
the sail so they won’t fall out. I have the same problem on my F30 with
newer sails as well - no two small grommets with a bungee and the hook constantly
fell out. I ended up securing the end of the reef line to the large
grommet and calling it good. The problem with that is the first reef
point becomes your third reef point in severe conditions and it is nice to
simply take out the hook and secure it on the third point.

\



Jeff Chale


Seattle, WA

“Lorman, Alvin
J.” <ajlorman@…> wrote:



Andy:

\



I have the same boat and
my reefing lines came with the hooks as shown in the manual. Aside
from the fact that the hook can fall out of the cringle when not under tension,
it has not been a problem.

\



Al Lorman


F30 Ab Initio

\



P.S. My kids really
enjoyed the bird’s nest, complete with eggs, which I brought home this spring.

\


\

-----Original
Message-----
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Weeks MD, Andrew
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:41
PM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003]
reefing question
Does anyone
have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat
reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a
“87
F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to
the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the
cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level
of the
gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail
itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape
the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the
spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks Windfall






IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax
penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made
to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed,
then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or
marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the
transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice
based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax
advisor.





This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.














Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take
Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.





IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax
penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made
to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed,
then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or
marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the
transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice
based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax
advisor.





This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.








\

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)

The sail I just replaced didn’t have the grommets, so I guess it was not the original.

Al

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Weeks MD, AndrewSent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 1:10 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question

Thanks for the help. I still have the (soon to be retired) original sail and have always wondered what the extra grommets were for!
Andy

-----Original Message-----From: Lorman, Alvin J. [mailto:ajlorman@…] Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:24 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question

I asked Steve Haarstick to comment on the reefing issue. Here’s his reply:

Al,
I think some of the confusion regarding the hooks falling out of the tack reef grommets stems from the system used on the earlier Freedom models. The 44, 32 (Hoyt), and the 39 Pilot House all had the reefing grommets set back about 8" from the luff as they used a single line reefing system. The reef line was secured around the boom, through the foot, up to the clew reef, and down to the turning block at the aft end of the boom (same as current boats). However the clew reef line exited out the side of the boom through a double cheek block, up to a pulley attached to a hook which was in the tack reef grommet directly above the bearing surface of the first check block. It continued on around this pulley and down through the aft side of the forward cheek block to the base of the mast, and finally back to a stopper at the aft end of the cabin top.
When the halyard was lowered to reef the sail, only this one line needed to be winched in. You would keep grinding the line in until the leech reef was down and the bottom of the tack reef pulley bottomed out on top of the cheek blocks. This system seemed to be a good idea, but the friction was high and it took some time to get the reef down tight.
These systems were very prone to shaking the pulley/hook out of the tack reef, and thus the addition of the double small grommets about 4" below the tack reefs. When the hook/pulley was slid under this shock cord and hooked into the tack reef, it wouldn’t shake out.
The newer boats reverted to a standard single line clew reef, and a separate block and tackle with hook for the tack reefs. Without the added weight of the pretty heavy pulley attached to the old style system, and the tack reef grommets at the luff and not set back into the sail, the problem with the hook falling out when the sail was flogging seem to be eliminated, and we stopped putting the two grommets with the shock cord below the reef grommets.
I hope this helps.
Steve
-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff ChaleSent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:44 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question


I believe the hooks had a block attached and the end of the reef line was secured to the mast padeye. The problem on sails (not made by Haarstick) is that there is supposed to be two grommets directly underneath the large reef ggrommetwhere the hook fits. A piece of bungee is tied between the two smaller grommets and holds the lose end of the hook on the sail so they won’t fall out. I have the same problem on my F30 with newer sails as well - no two small grommets with a bungee and the hook constantly fell out. I ended up securing the end of the reef line to the large grommet and calling it good. The problem with that is the first reef point becomes your third reef point in severe conditions and it is nice to simply take out the hook and secure it on the third point.

Jeff Chale

Seattle, WA"Lorman, Alvin J." <ajlorman@…> wrote:


Andy:

I have the same boat and my reefing lines came with the hooks as shown in the manual. Aside from the fact that the hook can fall out of the cringle when not under tension, it has not been a problem.

Al Lorman

F30 Ab Initio

P.S. My kids really enjoyed the bird’s nest, complete with eggs, which I brought home this spring.

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Weeks MD, AndrewSent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:41 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] reefing question
Does anyone have any suggestions on the luff reef points tie downs for an Isomat reefing system (I believe it was optional at the time of my boat, a “87 F30)
The diagram in the manual shows a hook attaching to the luff reef cringles, I have always looped the reefing line up and trough the cringles, securing them to the stout eye hook on the mast at the level of the gooseneck. I haven’t tried fastening the bitter end to the sail itself, but maybe I should try….
I will pass on one lesson learned, I now tape the ends of the boom to prevent birds from trying to nest in there in the spring. What a mess and its hard to wash out!
Andy Weeks Windfall




IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.



This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.



Yahoo! Mail MobileTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.



IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.



This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.