Sails and reef points

Posted by merliseclyde (clyde@…>)

After the jib tore a couple of weekends ago, the local
sailmaker/repairer has informed us that the 10-year old original sails
appear to be completely amortorized. We may be able to push another
year out of them if we don’t venture out after the remains of any more
tropical systems pass thru. but looks like we will be looking into
buying a new main and jib in the near future.

The current main has only 2 reef points. I would feel more
comfortable with adding a third reef point (but perhaps with more
experience I won’t feel this way :-). It seems that one disadvantage
of this system is added weight (assuming the hardware can be modified
to accomodate teh extra reef). An alternative suggestion was to move
the location of the two reefs so that the second reef point is higher
to handle heavier winds.

Any thoughts? (we’re on a Freedom 35 with a cambarspar jib)

Our current sails are from Haarstick (composites) – based on previous
posts I am leaning towards staying with them, but wondered about the
advantages of using someone local.

best,
Merlise

Posted by jerry_magic1 (jerry_magic1@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “merliseclyde” <clyde@s…>
wrote:

Our current sails are from Haarstick (composites) – based on previous
posts I am leaning towards staying with them, but wondered about the
advantages of using someone local.

Just one man’s opinion of course, but if you can stand dealing with a
personality like Steve Haarstick, be my guest. I can’t. Haarstick
makes a perfectly good sail. However, he is not the only one that can
build a sail for a Freedom. A number of other Freedom owners (on the
old BB) have reported using different lofts for replacement sails with
very satisfactory results.
I had an excellent camberspar jib built by Scott Sails in Annapolois
several years ago for my F36.
When the upper part of my mainsail (Haarstick original with 3 reefing
points) was ripped in 2000, I sent it to SailCare for cleaning and
repair. They installed a 4th reef point with heavier canvas panels
above that for use as a storm sail, repaired all the batten pockets,
reinforced the stress points and patched all the small nicks and tears
in the remaining portion of the original sail.
The first 2 reef ponts are single line reefing. The 3rd and 4th are
manually tied to the boom.
The sail is a bit heavier, of course, but I have an electric winch and
it does not bother me. Sailing performance is no different.

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)

Jerry:

I’d be interested in your experience with SailCare. I’ve never come across a company that gets more diametrically opposed comments. Did they clean your sails using their special process? If so, are you happy with the results? Some have claimed that their process destroys sails.

I find the frequent comments about Steve Haartsick’s personality interesting. When I was considering purchasing my F-30 last spring, I called him to ask what a new suit of sails would cost. He could not have been nicer and we had a lovely chat on a variety of issues. Must have hit him on a good day.

Al Lorman
F-30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----From: jerry_magic1 [mailto:jerry_magic1@…] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 1:05 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Sails and reef points— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “merliseclyde” <clyde@s…>wrote:> Our current sails are from Haarstick (composites) – based on previous> posts I am leaning towards staying with them, but wondered about the> advantages of using someone local. Just one man’s opinion of course, but if you can stand dealing with apersonality like Steve Haarstick, be my guest. I can’t. Haarstickmakes a perfectly good sail. However, he is not the only one that canbuild a sail for a Freedom. A number of other Freedom owners (on theold BB) have reported using different lofts for replacement sails withvery satisfactory results.I had an excellent camberspar jib built by Scott Sails in Annapoloisseveral years ago for my F36.When the upper part of my mainsail (Haarstick original with 3 reefingpoints) was ripped in 2000, I sent it to SailCare for cleaning andrepair. They installed a 4th reef point with heavier canvas panelsabove that for use as a storm sail, repaired all the batten pockets,reinforced the stress points and patched all the small nicks and tearsin the remaining portion of the original sail.The first 2 reef ponts are single line reefing. The 3rd and 4th aremanually tied to the boom.The sail is a bit heavier, of course, but I have an electric winch andit does not bother me. Sailing performance is no different.

Posted by Leslie Toney (ltoney5017@…>)

I just got back sails from my F-28 from being cleaned at Sailcare. They came back looking virtually new (these are original 1987 sails).

I won’t be able to say for some time whether or not they will last, but I thought the service was very personable and reasonable as well.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lorman, Alvin J.
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Sails and reef points

Jerry:

I’d be interested in your experience with SailCare. I’ve never come across a company that gets more diametrically opposed comments. Did they clean your sails using their special process? If so, are you happy with the results? Some have claimed that their process destroys sails.

I find the frequent comments about Steve Haartsick’s personality interesting. When I was considering purchasing my F-30 last spring, I called him to ask what a new suit of sails would cost. He could not have been nicer and we had a lovely chat on a variety of issues. Must have hit him on a good day.

Al Lorman
F-30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----From: jerry_magic1 [mailto:jerry_magic1@…] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 1:05 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Sails and reef points— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “merliseclyde” <clyde@s…>wrote:> Our current sails are from Haarstick (composites) – based on previous> posts I am leaning towards staying with them, but wondered about the> advantages of using someone local. Just one man’s opinion of course, but if you can stand dealing with apersonality like Steve Haarstick, be my guest. I can’t. Haarstickmakes a perfectly good sail. However, he is not the only one that canbuild a sail for a Freedom. A number of other Freedom owners (on theold BB) have reported using different lofts for replacement sails withvery satisfactory results.I had an excellent camberspar jib built by Scott Sails in Annapoloisseveral years ago for my F36.When the upper part of my mainsail (Haarstick original with 3 reefingpoints) was ripped in 2000, I sent it to SailCare for cleaning andrepair. They installed a 4th reef point with heavier canvas panelsabove that for use as a storm sail, repaired all the batten pockets,reinforced the stress points and patched all the small nicks and tearsin the remaining portion of the original sail.The first 2 reef ponts are single line reefing. The 3rd and 4th aremanually tied to the boom.The sail is a bit heavier, of course, but I have an electric winch andit does not bother me. Sailing performance is no different.

Posted by jerry_magic1 (jerry_magic1@…>)

— Alvin J." <ajlorman@y…> wrote:

I’d be interested in your experience with SailCare. Did
they clean your sails using their special process? If so, are you
happy with the results?

Yes, sail was cleaned using their process. There was a tiny bit of
shrinkage. I had to cut two of the battens down by 1/2 inch to get
them reinstalled. This was 4 years ago. Sail still looks great with a
firm shape. Not bad for a 17 year old canvas. Yes, I’m happy.

I find the frequent comments about Steve Haartsick’s personality
interesting. I called him to ask what a new suit of sails would
cost. He could not
have been nicer

Again, my experience with him is 4 years old. He couldn’t have been
more arrogant and conceited. Perhaps he has matured with time and
competition.

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)

That’s good to hear, Jerry and Leslie. I’m inclined to give them a try.

Al

-----Original Message-----From: jerry_magic1 [mailto:jerry_magic1@…] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:19 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Sails and reef points— Alvin J." <ajlorman@y…> wrote: > I’d be interested in your experience with SailCare. Did> they clean your sails using their special process? If so, are you happy with the results? Yes, sail was cleaned using their process. There was a tiny bit ofshrinkage. I had to cut two of the battens down by 1/2 inch to getthem reinstalled. This was 4 years ago. Sail still looks great with afirm shape. Not bad for a 17 year old canvas. Yes, I’m happy. > I find the frequent comments about Steve Haartsick’s personality> interesting. I called him to ask what a new suit of sails wouldcost. He could not> have been nicer Again, my experience with him is 4 years old. He couldn’t have beenmore arrogant and conceited. Perhaps he has matured with time andcompetition.

Posted by captainl3r (captainl@…>)

I have a 1994 Freedom 35 with Haarastick Mainsail. I have problems
with the reefing lines jamming which prevents me from raising the
sail. So I must lower and re-raise sometimes. This is frustrating
as well. The reef points you are inquiring about would probably be
best solved by moving them as opposed to adding another reef point.

Before opting to get a mainsail from another manufacturer it is
recommended to check with Haarstick. I am contemplating the purchase
of a new mainsail and I just happened to check with Haarstick and it
is good that I did. My mainsail is cut to a special size and if I
had opted to go with another manufacturer a stock sail would not have
fitted properly. When checking with Haarstick if you have your order
number it is handy for him to look up the exact sail that is original
to your vessel.

Regards;–Capt. Larry E. Strouse

After the jib tore a couple of weekends ago, the local
sailmaker/repairer has informed us that the 10-year old original
sails
appear to be completely amortorized. We may be able to push another
year out of them if we don’t venture out after the remains of any
more
tropical systems pass thru. but looks like we will be looking into
buying a new main and jib in the near future.

The current main has only 2 reef points. I would feel more
comfortable with adding a third reef point (but perhaps with more
experience I won’t feel this way :-). It seems that one
disadvantage
of this system is added weight (assuming the hardware can be
modified
to accomodate teh extra reef). An alternative suggestion was to
move
the location of the two reefs so that the second reef point is
higher
to handle heavier winds.

Any thoughts? (we’re on a Freedom 35 with a cambarspar jib)

Our current sails are from Haarstick (composites) – based on
previous
posts I am leaning towards staying with them, but wondered about the
advantages of using someone local.

best,
Merlise

Posted by asilverman@… (asilverman@…)

I used one of those “instant quote” forms on one of the sail manufacturer sites. I specified a 1995 F35 and it quoted a sail that was over 100 square feet smaller than the original! When I called to inquire, they acknowledged that the quote was faulty.

Haarstick, on the other hand didn’t quote until I explained where I sailed and how I used my boat. Only then did they spec a sail (of the correct square footage) for my boat. That’s how a sailmaker should work.