Spider cracks

[Freeman_Dodsworth]

Posted by Freeman Dodsworth (freemandodsworth@…>)

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

[Thomas_Wales]

Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

Hi Freeman,
Cracks are usually due to a couple of reasons: Stress
and/or exposure to UV radiation. If the cracks are on the deck area,
they are probably due to exposure of ultra violet light from the
sun. It’s not uncommon for boats kept in the south to have this
issue. They are probably cosmetic.
My boat is laid up for half the year, covered, and does not
suffer the same exposure, consequently, I do not have spider cracks
(so every Freedom doesn’t have them…).
You might want to explore the history of the boat more
thoroughly to determine why there is cracking on the deck. They can
be repaired, but if the cracking is extensive, it’ll be somewhat of a
pain in the neck, especially if they exist on the non-skid.
Good luck
TW



At 11:44 AM 10/11/2007, you wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

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AM

[Alan_Kusinitz]

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)


On my 1982 Freedom 33 I have a few places
with some spider cracks in the gel coat. These are fine cracks nothing where a
gap is evident.
The ones I have for example are around the
stanchion gate of the lifeflines. I wouldn’t consider the number or area
to be “extensive”. I think its pretty typical of old gelcoat. In a
couple of places looks like maybe a winch handle was dropped on it.
Of course some of the angles could be
rounder and backing plates better but I don’t see anything dramatic in
mine.
Alan

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Freeman Dodsworth
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007
11:45 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Spider cracks

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

\

[george_huffman1]

Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
We have a very minor amount of spider webbing on our 30 year old Freedom 40 CK CC. Much less than on what seems to happen within about 10 years on modern production boats. Frankly, and while we are making general statements, I’ve found spider webs in the heads of every broker I’ve dealt with… heh heh GeorgeAlan Kusinitz <akusinitz@…> wrote: On my 1982 Freedom 33 I have a
few places with some spider cracks in the gel coat. These are fine cracks nothing where a gap is evident. The ones I have for example are around the stanchion gate of the lifeflines. I wouldn’t consider the number or area to be “extensive”. I think its pretty typical of old gelcoat. In a couple of places looks like maybe a winch handle was dropped on it. Of course some of the angles could be rounder and backing plates better but I don’t see anything dramatic in mine. Alan From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Freeman Dodsworth Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:45 AM To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Spider cracks All, Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot of this as
I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention. Freeman
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[lance_ryley]

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

[Bob1]

Posted by Bob (rweeks6508@…>)

My F30 has not one spider crack anywhere. Its spent most of its life in Texas
and Florida so it surprising that it has none. However its gelcoat is very dull
and chalky so I imagine my spring will include lots of hard labor compounding
and polishing etc.

Bob
Freebird aka Nitro


\

From: lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…>
Date: 2007/10/11 Thu PM 12:32:03 CDT
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Spider cracks


Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

[sforgey]

Posted by sforgey (jsforgey@…>)


We have dealt with a bit on our F32 at
some stress points. They were mostly cosmetic.

Scott Forgey
Creative Thinking Guru
21362 Summertrace Circle
Boca Raton, FL 33428

561.445.5179
skype: sforgey1

“My hovercraft is full of eels.”

M. Python

From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of george huffman
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007
12:43 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Spider cracks

We have a
very minor amount of spider webbing on our 30 year old Freedom 40 CK CC. Much
less than on what seems to happen within about 10 years on modern production
boats. Frankly, and while we are making general statements, I’ve found spider
webs in the heads of every broker I’ve dealt with… heh heh

George

Alan Kusinitz
<akusinitz@yahoo.com> wrote:




On my 1982 Freedom 33 I have a few places
with some spider cracks in the gel coat. These are fine cracks nothing where a
gap is evident.


The ones I have for example are around the
stanchion gate of the lifeflines. I wouldn’t consider the number or area
to be “extensive”. I think its pretty typical of old gelcoat. In a
couple of places looks like maybe a winch handle was dropped on it.


Of course some of the angles could be
rounder and backing plates better but I don’t see anything dramatic in
mine.


Alan

\

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Freeman Dodsworth
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007
11:45 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Spider cracks


\

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman






\

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile
search that gives answers, not web links.


\

[jerry_weinraub1]

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

Gel coat ,if not as flexible as the underlying laminate,may crack as the
boat flexes with age. The same ,and even more so,on CF masts,without any
structural weakening.

Bob wrote:

My F30 has not one spider crack anywhere. Its spent most of its life
in Texas and Florida so it surprising that it has none. However its
gelcoat is very dull and chalky so I imagine my spring will include
lots of hard labor compounding and polishing etc.

Bob
Freebird aka Nitro

============ =========
From: lance_ryley <lance_ryley@ yahoo.com
mailto:lance_ryley%40yahoo.com>
Date: 2007/10/11 Thu PM 12:32:03 CDT
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Spider cracks

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@ …> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

[T11]

Posted by T (fairways31@…>)
i believe the 32 had a run with some “bad” gelcoat batch that caused it advanced composites come to mind Boston whaler had same issue at the same time. but i have them on my 1999 35 so who know just a cosmetic problem but irritatingFreeman Dodsworth <freemandodsworth@…> wrote: All,Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.Freeman
Tonight’s top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

[sward1]

Posted by Sward (swardfullsail@…>)
Freeman, I have a friend that was looking at that boat too. I saw pictures and a friend who is a surveyer looked at it and the cracks are not just superficial, the deck is wet. This friend is not interested in that boat anymore. I’ll try to forward pictures she took of that at your email address Sward Havelock, NC - not far from OrientalT <fairways31@…> wrote: i believe the 32 had a run with some “bad” gelcoat batch that caused it advanced
composites come to mind Boston whaler had same issue at the same time. but i have them on my 1999 35 so who know just a cosmetic problem but irritatingFreeman Dodsworth <freemandodsworth@yahoo.com> wrote: All,Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind
attention.Freeman Tonight’s top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. “Life is a Reach, then you Jibe” SWARD

[Freeman_Dodsworth]

Posted by Freeman Dodsworth (freemandodsworth@…>)
Sward,Thanks for that important information. I have been wondering why the broker won’t send me detailed pics.thanks again,FreemanSward <swardfullsail@…> wrote: Freeman, I have a friend that was looking at that boat too. I saw pictures and a friend who is a surveyer looked at it and the cracks are not just superficial, the deck is wet. This friend is not interested in that boat anymore. I’ll try to forward pictures she took of that at your email address Sward Havelock, NC - not far from OrientalT <fairways31@yahoo.com> wrote: i believe the 32 had a run with some “bad” gelcoat batch that caused it advanced composites come to mind Boston whaler had same issue at the same time. but i have them on my 1999 35 so who know just a cosmetic problem but irritatingFreeman Dodsworth <freemandodsworth@yahoo.com> wrote: All,Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He further states (being a broker after all) that “every
Freedom he has ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.Freeman Tonight’s top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. “Life is a Reach, then you Jibe” SWARD
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Bob_Weeks]

Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)


Here are some things I learned from buying
my F30 in July:

Have
tools with you, including digital camera (helps remember what you looked
at), plus if the surveyor falls overboard, have a backup.
Get
a well known surveyor! Or at least with a national group.
Work
you way outside to inside don’t skip any steps along the way.
Work
every system for as long as time permits. If you can not see the
lights on top of the mast during the day come back and look at it at night.
Sounds picky but unless you have suction cups on your feet and heights don’t
scare its going to cost some boat bucks!
Look
at everything the surveyor looks at plus everything he doesn’t look
at.
Sea
trials are very important not just a two hour cruise. It takes two
hours just to shake down the diesel! Full power 20 minutes, mid
power 20 minutes, etc, reverse which way will it walk, does it have enough
guts to stop and reverse in a certain length. Is the screw matched
to the engine and boat? Again test every system, all sails, clam
cleats, etc again.
Engine
should have a compression test it will tell you a lot. Look for oil
leaks, engine bilge, check stuffing box under load, especially in reverse
different torque direction. I have a very good solid engine its
starts on the first flick of the key, but it has an elusive oil leak,
waterlock is cracked (2 boat bucks), mixing elbow was clogged with carbon,
engine shutdown going into Key West (10 very large boat bucks)
Anchor,
chain, rope inspect it all.
Check
every hatch, seals, and dogs. Each dog cost at least $20.
If
a floorboard needs to be unscrewed to get to bilge do it.

I got a good solid boat but all of the
little things that broke only short time after I signed the paper almost put me
in the poor house. Average price for a F30 is somewhere between $35k and
$55k, not peanuts and if the broker tell you not to dwell on the little things
or cosmetics I would tell him to take a hike!

Bob

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Sward
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007
2:25 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Spider cracks

Freeman,

\

I have a friend that was looking at that boat too. I saw pictures
and a friend who is a surveyer looked at it and the cracks are not just
superficial, the deck is wet. This friend is not interested in that boat
anymore. I’ll try to forward pictures she took of that at your email
address


Sward


Havelock,
NC - not far from Oriental
T <fairways31@yahoo.com>
wrote:





i believe the 32 had a run with some “bad” gelcoat batch that
caused it advanced composites come to mind Boston whaler had same issue at the same
time.

\

but i have them on my 1999 35 so who know just a cosmetic problem
but irritating

Freeman Dodsworth
<freemandodsworth@yahoo.com> wrote:




All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman


\

Tonight’s top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview
the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.








“Life is a Reach, then you
Jibe”

\

SWARD


\