Spinnakers: and North Gennakers

[derek.plante]

Posted by derek.plante (derek.plante@…>)

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)

I am going to pursue this setup option, would your sail loft have the
particulars of the sail.
Ill have a North loft here make ours.
Thanks
Tom C
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)

Derek
Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.
I have downloaded there pdf file for choices
Thanks
Tom
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Derek_Plante]

Posted by Derek Plante (derek.plante@…>)
Hi Thomas,

I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor reckoned was about ideal.
I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price (approx 4x the alloy!)
As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you. But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.
I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.

Happy sailing,

Derek Plante.

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.— On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:
From: Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…>Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North GennakersTo: freedom21@yahoogroups.comDate: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM


DerekWhich Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.I have downloaded there pdf file for choicesThanksTom— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>wrote:>> Hi All,>> I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> Under”!> My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.>> For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,> and cheaper option would be
to go for a gennaker flown from one of> the new Selden retractable bowsprits.>> We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now> sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well> designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest> pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck> between the bow and
mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the> bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control> of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.>> I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> photos page on this F21 Forum site.>> Derek Plante.> “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.>

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)
Good On Ya MateThanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount concept, the new sail setups are the way to go.I do have the carbon mast will do as you sayFaster is better!T— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@…> wrote:>> Hi Thomas,> > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor reckoned was about ideal.> I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price (approx 4x the alloy!)> As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you. But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > Happy sailing,> > Derek Plante.> > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@… wrote:> > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@…> Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > > > > > > Derek> Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.> I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> Thanks> Tom> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>> wrote:> >> > Hi All,> >> > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> > Under”!> > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> >> > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,> > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of> > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> >> > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now> > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well> > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest> > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck> > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the> > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control> > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.> >> > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> >> > Derek Plante.> > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> >>

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)
Is there a limit as to how much stress the free standing mast can take before breakingHow much sail is too much?T— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@…> wrote:>> Hi Thomas,> > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor reckoned was about ideal.> I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price (approx 4x the alloy!)> As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you. But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > Happy sailing,> > Derek Plante.> > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@… wrote:> > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@…> Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > > > > > > Derek> Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.> I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> Thanks> Tom> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>> wrote:> >> > Hi All,> >> > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> > Under”!> > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> >> > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,> > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of> > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> >> > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now> > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well> > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest> > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck> > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the> > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control> > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.> >> > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> >> > Derek Plante.> > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> >>

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)
I guess what Im saying is what if I don’t cut the sprit shorter? Am I asking for troubleT— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@…> wrote:>> Hi Thomas,> > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor reckoned was about ideal.> I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price (approx 4x the alloy!)> As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you. But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > Happy sailing,> > Derek Plante.> > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@… wrote:> > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@…> Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > > > > > > Derek> Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.> I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> Thanks> Tom> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>> wrote:> >> > Hi All,> >> > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> > Under”!> > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> >> > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,> > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of> > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> >> > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now> > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well> > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest> > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck> > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the> > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control> > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.> >> > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> >> > Derek Plante.> > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> >>

[Derek_Plante]

Posted by Derek Plante (derek.plante@…>)
Hi again Thomas,

In answer to your queries about not shortening the bowsprit, and mast strength etc…
If you do not shorten the sprit, and keep it close to the centreline of the boat, you would have to either leave it in place permanently extended, or remove the sprit for stowage below when not in use. Alternatively, one could mount the sprit offset to the gunwale, but bear in mind that the Selden bow ring fitting does not swivel. The sprit itself is pretty substantial and would probably bear the load of a longer extension from the bow, but the local Selden distributor advised that he thought that a 700m extension was all that was needed.
If your intention is to use the full sprit length to maximise the extension to gain sail area I would certainly check out the carbon mast strength with the experts. As I said, my mast is alloy ( made by Spunspar, in Sydney) and I was advised that it was more than adequate to cope, bearing in mind the proposed 700mm sprit extension. I also considered, but decided not to risk, going to a masthead rig for the gennaker halyard, positioning it at 3/4 rig similar to the standard F21 spinnaker halyard.
All in all, I feel that the sprit, and sail set up as I have it is easy to handle and does not risk the mast. However if you are after the maximum gennaker size and performance, it would be certainly wise to check it it out with those who know much more than I do about carbon masts. Particularly if you plan on getting a few thrills by going sailing in some of those USA hurricanes that we hear about!

Cheers,

Derek Plante.— On Mon, 11/3/08, Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:
From: Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…>Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North GennakersTo: freedom21@yahoogroups.comDate: Monday, November 3, 2008, 11:20 PM


I guess what Im saying is what if I don’t cut the sprit shorter? Am I asking for troubleT— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@ …> wrote:>> Hi Thomas,> > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor reckoned was about ideal.> I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price (approx 4x the alloy!)> As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you. But I stress
that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > Happy sailing,> > Derek Plante.> > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ … wrote:> > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ …> Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> To: freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com> Date: Sunday, November 2,
2008, 5:26 PM> > > > > > > Derek> Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which dimension.> I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> Thanks> Tom> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>> wrote:> >> > Hi All,> >> > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> > Under”!> > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> >> > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> > Julian who
works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a simpler,> > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of> > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> >> > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have now> > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very well> > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their smallest> > pole (2 meters
long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on deck> > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond the> > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate control> > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.> >> > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> >> > Derek Plante.> > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> >>

[Clark_Myers]

Posted by Clark Myers (cdmyers1@…>)
Thomas,
Newer is not always better!
Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up more speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he looses straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (I know, when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also like to point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there are no Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing isn’t everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather than reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gun mount and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it! After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!
The www.fredom21.info site has links to several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.
Clark Myers
Teke’s Pride
F21 #345
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran” <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:>> Good On Ya Mate [:)]> Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount concept,> the new sail setups are the way to go.> I do have the carbon mast will do as you say> Faster is better!> T> — In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@ wrote:> >> > Hi Thomas,> >> > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm> long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it> stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just> to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the> pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm> extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor> reckoned was about ideal.> > I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price> (approx 4x the alloy!)> > As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you.> But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may> differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure> your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> > I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker so> cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the performance> of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle, (the> Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles of> line that are needed for the GunMount system.> >> > Happy sailing,> >> > Derek Plante.> >> > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> >> > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:> >> > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@> > Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> > To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Derek> > Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which> dimension.> > I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> > Thanks> > Tom> > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@ …>> > wrote:> > >> > > Hi All,> > >> > > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down> > > Under”!> > > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney; and> > > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> > >> > > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son> > > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a> simpler,> > > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of> > > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> > >> > > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have> now> > > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,> > > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”. Only> > > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21 Class> > > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot sail> > > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit of> > > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very> well> > > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their> smallest> > > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This is> > > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on> deck> > > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond> the> > > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate> control> > > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.> > >> > > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of the> > > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> > >> > > Derek Plante.> > > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> > >> >>

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)

Thanks
I am in touch with my favorite sailmaker as we speak
I will keep you up to date as the project progresses
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@…> wrote:

Hi again Thomas,

In answer to your queries about not shortening the bowsprit, and mast
strength etc…
If you do not shorten the sprit, and keep it close to the centreline
of the boat, you would have to either leave it in place permanently
extended, or remove the sprit for stowage below when not in use.
Alternatively, one could mount the sprit offset to the gunwale, but bear
in mind that the Selden bow ring fitting does not swivel. The sprit
itself is pretty substantial and would probably bear the load of a
longer extension from the bow, but the local Selden distributor advised
that he thought that a 700m extension was all that was needed.
If your intention is to use the full sprit length to maximise the
extension to gain sail area I would certainly check out the carbon mast
strength with the experts. As I said, my mast is alloy ( made by
Spunspar, in Sydney) and I was advised that it was more than adequate to
cope, bearing in mind the proposed 700mm sprit extension. I also
considered, but decided not to risk, going to a masthead rig for the
gennaker halyard, positioning it at 3/4 rig similar to the standard F21
spinnaker halyard.

All in all, I feel that the sprit, and sail set up as I have it is
easy to handle and does not risk the mast. However if you are after the
maximum gennaker size and performance, it would be certainly wise to
check it it out with those who know much more than I do about carbon
masts. Particularly if you plan on getting a few thrills by going
sailing in some of those USA hurricanes that we hear about!

Cheers,

Derek Plante.
— On Mon, 11/3/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@… wrote:

From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@…
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 11:20 PM

I guess what Im saying is what if I don’t cut the sprit shorter? Am I
asking for trouble
T
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@ …>
wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm
long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it
stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and just
to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows the
pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm
extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden distributor
reckoned was about ideal.
I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price
(approx 4x the alloy!)
As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to you.
But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so may
differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to measure
your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.
I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount spinnaker
so cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the
performance of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and
handle, (the Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding
the miles of line that are needed for the GunMount system.

Happy sailing,

Derek Plante.

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.

— On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ … wrote:

From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ …
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM

Derek
Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which
dimension.
I have downloaded there pdf file for choices
Thanks
Tom
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@
…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from “Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney;
and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a
simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and have
now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”.
Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21
Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot
sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a bit
of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very
well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their
smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters. This
is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on
deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension beyond
the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate
control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of
the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)

Thanks Clark
I am talking to my favorite sailmaker in Vermont
I will keep you posted
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Clark Myers” <cdmyers1@…> wrote:

Thomas,

[#-o] Newer is not always better!

Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up more
speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he looses
straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a
gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly
pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (I
know,
when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also like to
point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there are
no
Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing isn’t
everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather than
reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gun
mount
and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it!
[=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!

The www.fredom21.info http://www.fredom21.info site has links to
several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.

Clark Myers

Teke’s Pride

F21 #345

— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran” kaikouravoyager@
wrote:

Good On Ya Mate [:)]
Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount
concept,
the new sail setups are the way to go.
I do have the carbon mast will do as you say
Faster is better!
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@ wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm
long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it
stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and
just
to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows
the
pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm
extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden
distributor
reckoned was about ideal.
I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price
(approx 4x the alloy!)
As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to
you.
But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so
may
differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to
measure
your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.
I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount
spinnaker
so
cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the
performance
of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle,
(the
Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles
of
line that are needed for the GunMount system.

Happy sailing,

Derek Plante.

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.

— On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:

From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM

Derek
Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which
dimension.
I have downloaded there pdf file for choices
Thanks
Tom
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@
…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from
“Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney;
and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my
son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a
simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one
of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and
have
now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to
fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”.
Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21
Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot
sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a
bit
of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very
well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their
smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters.
This
is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on
deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension
beyond
the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate
control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt
rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of
the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Thomas_Curran]

Posted by Thomas Curran (kaikouravoyager@…>)
Lining? What lining? Did you see something in my picture that I didnt see?I love the group alreadyT— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran” <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:>> Thanks Clark> I am talking to my favorite sailmaker in Vermont> I will keep you posted> T> — In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Clark Myers” cdmyers1@ wrote:> >> >> > Thomas,> >> > [#-o] Newer is not always better!> >> > Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up more> > speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he looses> > straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a> > gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly> > pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (I> know,> > when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also like to> > point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there are> no> > Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing isn’t> > everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather than> > reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gun> mount> > and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it!> > [=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!> >> > The www.fredom21.info http://www.fredom21.info site has links to> > several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.> >> > Clark Myers> >> > Teke’s Pride> >> > F21 #345> >> >> > — In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran” kaikouravoyager@> > wrote:> > >> > > Good On Ya Mate [:)]> > > Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount> concept,> > > the new sail setups are the way to go.> > > I do have the carbon mast will do as you say> > > Faster is better!> > > T> > > — In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Hi Thomas,> > > >> > > > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm> > > long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it> > > stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and> > just> > > to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows> > the> > > pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm> > > extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden> > distributor> > > reckoned was about ideal.> > > > I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price> > > (approx 4x the alloy!)> > > > As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to> you.> > > But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so> > may> > > differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to> > measure> > > your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> > > > I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount> spinnaker> > so> > > cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the> > performance> > > of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle,> > (the> > > Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles> of> > > line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > > >> > > > Happy sailing,> > > >> > > > Derek Plante.> > > >> > > > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > > >> > > > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:> > > >> > > > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@> > > > Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> > > > To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Derek> > > > Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which> > > dimension.> > > > I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> > > > Thanks> > > > Tom> > > > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@> > …>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Hi All,> > > > >> > > > > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > > > > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from> “Down> > > > > Under”!> > > > > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > > > > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > > > > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney;> > and> > > > > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> > > > >> > > > > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my> son> > > > > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a> > > simpler,> > > > > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one> of> > > > > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> > > > >> > > > > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and> have> > > now> > > > > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to> fit,> > > > > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”.> > Only> > > > > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21> > Class> > > > > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot> > sail> > > > > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a> bit> > of> > > > > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > > > > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very> > > well> > > > > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their> > > smallest> > > > > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters.> This> > is> > > > > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on> > > deck> > > > > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension> beyond> > > the> > > > > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > > > > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > > > > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate> > > control> > > > > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt> rope.> > > > >> > > > > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of> > the> > > > > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> > > > >> > > > > Derek Plante.> > > > > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Derek_Plante]

Posted by Derek Plante (derek.plante@…>)
Hi Thomas, and Clark!

I thought that my e-mail about Gennakers might just stir up a bit of discussion!

I fully agree with Clark that the gunmount system was extremely clever. In fact, it was one of the main features that attracted me to the F21 when I saw the demo video at the Sydney boat show in the 80’s. However, I did not finally buy a F21 until about 10 years ago when I downsized from a Triton 28. Unfortunately the only F21 I found had no spinnaker gear at all. If it had, like Clark, I might be totally convinced about the gunmount, and I can fully understand why owners like it. But…I was in the situation of having no gunmount or spinnaker; and had given up racing after about 25 years of 'round the cans"! So I eventually decided that the gennaker was the simpler way to go for my needs. I do disagree with Clark about gybing. I cannot see that anything could be simpler than the gennaker. Just release one sheet, pull on the other, and it is done. Far fewer lines etc than the gunmount system. And
easier than a gennaker on a conventional yacht, because of the lack of forestay etc.
In short, if my boat had the original sail and system I would probably stick with it, particularly if racing. But if only cruising, and without any of the original gear, I would certainly still go for the gennaker.
So consider your planned use, cost out the options, and enjoy sailing a fantastic little boat!
We will all be interested to see which way you go!

Cheers,

Derek Plante

“At Last” Lake Macquarie, Australia.— On Tue, 11/4/08, Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:
From: Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…>Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North GennakersTo: freedom21@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:10 PM


Thanks ClarkI am talking to my favorite sailmaker in VermontI will keep you postedT— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Clark Myers” <cdmyers1@… .> wrote:>>> Thomas,>> [#-o] Newer is not always better!>> Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up more> speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he looses> straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a> gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly> pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (Iknow,> when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also like to> point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there areno> Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing
isn’t> everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather than> reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gunmount> and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it!> [=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!>> The www.fredom21. info <http://www.fredom21 .info> site has links to> several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.>> Clark Myers>> Teke’s Pride>> F21 #345>>> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Thomas Curran” kaikouravoyager@> wrote:> >> > Good On Ya Mate [:)]> > Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mountconcept,> > the new sail setups are the way to
go.> > I do have the carbon mast will do as you say> > Faster is better!> > T> > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@ wrote:> > >> > > Hi Thomas,> > >> > > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm> > long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it> > stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and> just> > to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows> the> > pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx 700mm> > extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden> distributor> > reckoned was about ideal.> > > I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at
the high price> > (approx 4x the alloy!)> > > As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back toyou.> > But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so> may> > differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to> measure> > your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> > > I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mountspinnaker> so> > cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the> performance> > of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and handle,> (the> > Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the milesof> > line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > >> > > Happy sailing,> > >> > > Derek Plante.> > >>

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > >> > > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:> > >> > > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@> > > Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> > > To: freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com> > > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Derek> > > Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which> > dimension.> > > I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> > > Thanks> > > Tom> > > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@> …>> > > wrote:> >

Hi All,> > > >> > > > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > > > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from"Down> > > > Under"!> > > > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > > > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > > > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in Sydney;> and> > > > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> > > >> > > > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until myson> > > > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a> > simpler,> > > > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from oneof> > > > the new Selden
retractable bowsprits.> > > >> > > > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, andhave> > now> > > > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple tofit,> > > > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”.> Only> > > > possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for F21> Class> > > > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot> sail> > > > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates abit> of> > > > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > > > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very> > well> > > > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their> > smallest> > >
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters.This> is> > > > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on> > deck> > > > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extensionbeyond> > the> > > > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > > > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > > > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate> > control> > > > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous boltrope.> > > >> > > > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of> the> > > > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> > > >> > > > Derek Plante.> > > > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South
Wales, Australia.> > > >> > >> >>

[Clark_Myers]

Posted by Clark Myers (cdmyers1@…>)

Thomas,

It is more a mater of what I didn’t see. In your 12th photo you gave
us a close-up of the gun mount. I could not see any sign of the
white palstic lining that should extend from the outside edge of the
mount to about 1.5" in. The small holes you see around the edge of
the mount were used to anchor the ligning.

There are instructions for making new linings posted on
http://www.freedom21.info/gunmountingsleeve.htm

I wonder, has anybody contacted Garry Hoyt to see if there is a
source for ready made replacement linings? I’m going to need
replacements on Teke’s Pride in the near future.

Clark Myers
Teke’s Pride
F21 #345


— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran”
<kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:

Lining? What lining? Did you see something in my picture that I
didnt
see? [:-?]
I love the group already
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran” <kaikouravoyager@>
wrote:

Thanks Clark
I am talking to my favorite sailmaker in Vermont
I will keep you posted
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Clark Myers” cdmyers1@ wrote:

Thomas,

[#-o] Newer is not always better!

Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up
more
speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he
looses
straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a
gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also
rightly
pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races
(I
know,
when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also
like
to
point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig
there
are
no
Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing
isn’t
everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather
than
reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your
gun
mount
and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try
it!
[=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!

The www.fredom21.info http://www.fredom21.info site has
links to
several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.

Clark Myers

Teke’s Pride

F21 #345

— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Curran”
kaikouravoyager@
wrote:

Good On Ya Mate [:)]
Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount
concept,
the new sail setups are the way to go.
I do have the carbon mast will do as you say
Faster is better!
T
— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@
wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is
2080mm
long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so
that it
stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow
fitting
and
just
to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also
allows
the
pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx
700mm
extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden
distributor
reckoned was about ideal.
I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high
price
(approx 4x the alloy!)
As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back
to
you.
But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy
mast;
so
may
differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential
to
measure
your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any
sailmaking.
I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount
spinnaker
so
cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the
performance
of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and
handle,
(the
Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the
miles
of
line that are needed for the GunMount system.

Happy sailing,

Derek Plante.

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.

— On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:

From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM

Derek
Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which
dimension.
I have downloaded there pdf file for choices
Thanks
Tom
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante”
<derek.plante@
…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen
from
“Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am
aware of
in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in
Sydney;
and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker,
until my
son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested
that a
simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown
from
one
of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago,
and
have
now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely
simple to
fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever
“Snuffer”.
Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for
F21
Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one
cannot
sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This
necessitates a
bit
of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to
gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but
is
very
well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used
their
smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5
meters.
This
is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted
pole
on
deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension
beyond
the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot,
this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more
accurate
control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous
bolt
rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last”
section
of
the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Clark_Myers]

Posted by Clark Myers (cdmyers1@…>)

Derek,

Correct me if I’m wrong…
When you gybe with the gennaker you need to release one jib sheet and
haul that big sail around the mast. Right?

With the Hoyt gun mount you simply trim the spinnaker using the
rein. The mast is not in the way. It is so easy!

I do think however, that it would be interesting to see how the
gennaker faired vs. the spinnaker in a head to head windward leward
race. Do you know any of those other downunder F21 owners? Maybe
you could arange a race to give us some comparitive data.

Cheers,
Clark Myers
Teke’s Pride
F21 #345

— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@…>
wrote:

Hi Thomas, and Clark!

I thought that my e-mail about Gennakers might just stir up a bit
of discussion!

I fully agree with Clark that the gunmount system was extremely
clever. In fact, it was one of the main features that attracted me to
the F21 when I saw the demo video at the Sydney boat show in the
80’s. However, I did not finally buy a F21 until about 10 years ago
when I downsized from a Triton 28… Unfortunately the only F21 I
found had no spinnaker gear at all. If it had, like Clark, I might be
totally convinced about the gunmount, and I can fully understand why
owners like it. But…I was in the situation of having no
gunmount or spinnaker; and had given up racing after about 25 years
of 'round the cans"! So I eventually decided that the gennaker was
the simpler way to go for my needs. I do disagree with Clark about
gybing. I cannot see that anything could be simpler than the
gennaker. Just release one sheet, pull on the other, and it is done.
Far fewer lines etc than the gunmount system. And easier than a
gennaker on a conventional yacht,
because of the lack of forestay etc.
In short, if my boat had the original sail and system I would
probably stick with it, particularly if racing. But if only cruising,
and without any of the original gear, I would certainly still go for
the gennaker.
So consider your planned use, cost out the options, and enjoy
sailing a fantastic little boat!
We will all be interested to see which way you go!

Cheers,

Derek Plante

“At Last” Lake Macquarie, Australia.

— On Tue, 11/4/08, Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…> wrote:

From: Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@…>
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:10 PM

Thanks Clark
I am talking to my favorite sailmaker in Vermont
I will keep you posted
T
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Clark Myers” <cdmyers1@ .>
wrote:

Thomas,

[#-o] Newer is not always better!

Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up
more
speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he
looses
straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a
gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly
pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (I
know,
when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also
like to
point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there
are
no
Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing isn’t
everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather
than
reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gun
mount
and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it!
[=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!

The www.fredom21. info <http://www.fredom21 .info> site has links
to
several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.

Clark Myers

Teke’s Pride

F21 #345

— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Thomas Curran”
kaikouravoyager@
wrote:

Good On Ya Mate [:)]
Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount
concept,
the new sail setups are the way to go.
I do have the carbon mast will do as you say
Faster is better!
T
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@
wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is
2080mm
long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that
it
stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting
and
just
to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also
allows
the
pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx
700mm
extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden
distributor
reckoned was about ideal.
I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high
price
(approx 4x the alloy!)
As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to
you.
But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy
mast; so
may
differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to
measure
your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any
sailmaking.
I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount
spinnaker
so
cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the
performance
of the gennaker; and it certainly is very simple to fit and
handle,
(the
Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the
miles
of
line that are needed for the GunMount system.

Happy sailing,

Derek Plante.

"At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.

— On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:

From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers
To: freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM

Derek
Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which
dimension.
I have downloaded there pdf file for choices
Thanks
Tom
— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante”
<derek.plante@
…>
wrote:

Hi All,

I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about
spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from
“Down
Under”!
My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware
of in
Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.
It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by Spunspar in
Sydney;
and
it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.

For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until
my
son
Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a
simpler,
and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from
one
of
the new Selden retractable bowsprits.

We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and
have
now
sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple
to
fit,
and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s
clever “Snuffer”.
Only
possible drawbacks are that it is obviously not legal for
F21
Class
racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one
cannot
sail
as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates
a
bit
of
downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to
gybe.
For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is
very
well
designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their
smallest
pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters.
This
is
about the right length to be able to store the retracted
pole on
deck
between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension
beyond
the
bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.
We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this
is also a big improvement, with much better and more
accurate
control
of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt
rope.

I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last”
section of
the
photos page on this F21 Forum site.

Derek Plante.
“At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.

[Derek_Plante]

Posted by Derek Plante (derek.plante@…>)
Hi Clark,

Yes, correct in theory, but in practice with no forestay when gybing, it is simplicity itself to let it billow forwards so that it does not go near the mast. It would be bit different perhaps if one tacked through the wind from broad reach to broad reach.

I would also certainly be interested to compare the gunmount spinnaker, with a gennaker in a race!
But… I am only aware of 3 other Freedom 21’s in Australia, one in Sydney Harbour about 12 years ago, there is one currently on Brisbane Waters, Gosford, NSW (next big Lake south from us). And there is one owned by forum member Nick Wiederman in Melbourne, Victoria; but his is a lift keel.
So perhaps we will have to wait until there is one with a gennaker in the US, or else I will have to pack my sail on my next trip to the USA!

PS. My F21 was actually built by South Coast Yachts at Dapto in NSW, to “Survey” standards as it was, I believe, originally owned by a sailing school. I assume that the others were also built by South Coast, but I have never been able to find out the total number built.

Best regards,

Derek Plante.— On Wed, 11/5/08, Clark Myers <cdmyers1@…> wrote:
From: Clark Myers <cdmyers1@…>Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North GennakersTo: freedom21@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 3:57 AM


Derek,Correct me if I’m wrong…When you gybe with the gennaker you need to release one jib sheet and haul that big sail around the mast. Right?With the Hoyt gun mount you simply trim the spinnaker using the rein. The mast is not in the way. It is so easy!I do think however, that it would be interesting to see how the gennaker faired vs. the spinnaker in a head to head windward leward race. Do you know any of those other downunder F21 owners? Maybe you could arange a race to give us some comparitive data.Cheers,Clark MyersTeke’s PrideF21 #345— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante <derek.plante@ …> wrote:>> Hi Thomas, and Clark!> > I thought that my e-mail about Gennakers might just stir up a bit of discussion! > > I fully
agree with Clark that the gunmount system was extremely clever. In fact, it was one of the main features that attracted me to the F21 when I saw the demo video at the Sydney boat show in the 80’s. However, I did not finally buy a F21 until about 10 years ago when I downsized from a Triton 28… Unfortunately the only F21 I found had no spinnaker gear at all. If it had, like Clark, I might be totally convinced about the gunmount, and I can fully understand why owners like it. But… …I was in the situation of having no gunmount or spinnaker; and had given up racing after about 25 years of 'round the cans"! So I eventually decided that the gennaker was the simpler way to go for my needs. I do disagree with Clark about gybing. I cannot see that anything could be simpler than the gennaker. Just release one sheet, pull on the other, and it is done. Far fewer lines etc than the gunmount system.
And easier than a gennaker on a conventional yacht,> because of the lack of forestay etc.> In short, if my boat had the original sail and system I would probably stick with it, particularly if racing. But if only cruising, and without any of the original gear, I would certainly still go for the gennaker.> So consider your planned use, cost out the options, and enjoy sailing a fantastic little boat!> We will all be interested to see which way you go!> > Cheers,> > Derek Plante> > “At Last” Lake Macquarie, Australia.> > — On Tue, 11/4/08, Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@ …> wrote:> > From: Thomas Curran <kaikouravoyager@ …>> Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> To: freedom21@yahoogrou
ps.com> Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:10 PM> > > > > > > Thanks Clark> I am talking to my favorite sailmaker in Vermont> I will keep you posted> T> — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Clark Myers” <cdmyers1@ .> wrote:> >> >> > Thomas,> >> > [#-o] Newer is not always better!> >> > Derek pointed out in his original posting that while he picks up more> > speed on a beam reach with his rig over the gun mount rig; he looses> > straight down wind performance. Gibing is more difficult with a> > gennaker than with the Hoyt gun mount as well. Derek also rightly> > pointed out that his rig prevents him from entering class races (I> know,> > when was the last time there was a class race?). I would also like to> >
point out that as the Gennaker is not a reccognized F21 rig there are> no> > Portsmith Handicap numbers for open racing. I admit racing isn’t> > everybody’s cup of tea. You may just want to cruise, but rather than> > reinventing the wheel, why don’t you repair the lining on your gun> mount> > and try the spinnaker rig? You might even like it if you try it!> > [=D>] After all Garry Hoyt is a genious!> >> > The www.fredom21. info <http://www.fredom21 .info> site has links to> > several sailmakers who make or have made F21 sails.> >> > Clark Myers> >> > Teke’s Pride> >> > F21 #345> >> >> > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Thomas Curran” kaikouravoyager@> > wrote:> >

Good On Ya Mate [:)]> > > Thanks for the info. 23 years have passed since the gun mount> concept,> > > the new sail setups are the way to go.> > > I do have the carbon mast will do as you say> > > Faster is better!> > > T> > > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, Derek Plante derek.plante@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Hi Thomas,> > > >> > > > I used the aluminium Selden pole number 072-072-70. This is 2080mm> > > long x 72 mill diameter. I shortened it to about 1500mm so that it> > > stores neatly in the retracted position between the bow fitting and> > just> > > to starboard of the mast. The slight offset to starboard also allows> > the> > > pole to clear the mooring cleat. This size still gives approx
700mm> > > extension from the bow when extended, which the local Selden> > distributor> > > reckoned was about ideal.> > > > I would have liked the carbon pole but baulked at the high price> > > (approx 4x the alloy!)> > > > As for the sail dimensions, I will check these and get back to> you.> > > But I stress that my boat was built in Austraila with Alloy mast; so> > may> > > differ from USA factory dimensions. So it would be essential to> > measure> > > your own boat, after fitting the bowsprit, before any sailmaking.> > > > I have never sailed a Freedom with the standard gun mount> spinnaker> > so> > > cannot compare ultimate performance. But I am happy with the> > performance> > > of the gennaker; and it certainly is very
simple to fit and handle,> > (the> > > Snuffer is invaluable). It also is much simpler, avoiding the miles> of> > > line that are needed for the GunMount system.> > > >> > > > Happy sailing,> > > >> > > > Derek Plante.> > > >> > > > "At Last " 209, Lake Macquarie, NSW Australia.> > > >> > > > — On Sun, 11/2/08, Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@ wrote:> > > >> > > > From: Thomas Curran kaikouravoyager@> > > > Subject: [freedom21] Re: Spinnakers: and North Gennakers> > > > To: freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com> > > > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >
Derek> > > > Which Selden spar did you use, Carbon or aluminum? and which> > > dimension.> > > > I have downloaded there pdf file for choices> > > > Thanks> > > > Tom> > > > — In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “derek.plante” <derek.plante@> > …>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Hi All,> > > > >> > > > > I have noted some recent discussion on the F21 Forum about> > > > > spinnakers. Can I add a different point of view as seen from> “Down> > > > > Under”!> > > > > My F21 “At Last” is one of only 4 Freedoms that I am aware of in> > > > > Australia. I have owned it now for about 10 years.> > > > > It is unusual in having an aluminium mast by
Spunspar in Sydney;> > and> > > > > it was never fitted with the gunmount spinnaker.> > > > >> > > > > For years I procrastinated about fitting a spinnaker, until my> son> > > > > Julian who works for North Sails in Sydney, suggested that a> > > simpler,> > > > > and cheaper option would be to go for a gennaker flown from one> of> > > > > the new Selden retractable bowsprits.> > > > >> > > > > We just finished fitting this rig a couple of weeks ago, and> have> > > now> > > > > sailed with it 3 times. Verdict is great! Extremely simple to> fit,> > > > > and very easy to hoist and drop using North’s clever “Snuffer”.> > Only> > > > > possible drawbacks are
that it is obviously not legal for F21> > Class> > > > > racing, which we do not have in Australia; and that one cannot> > sail> > > > > as square as with conventional spinnaker. This necessitates a> bit> > of> > > > > downwind tacking, which is fun as the boat is dead easy to gybe.> > > > > For anyone interested, the Selden pole is not cheap, but is very> > > well> > > > > designed, and constructed, and worth the cost. We used their> > > smallest> > > > > pole (2 meters long), and shortened it to approx 1.5 meters.> This> > is> > > > > about the right length to be able to store the retracted pole on> > > deck> > > > > between the bow and mast; and gives approx 700mm extension>
beyond> > > the> > > > > bow when extended through the special ring bowfitting.> > > > > We also fitted an new North mainsail with a loose foot, this> > > > > is also a big improvement, with much better and more accurate> > > control> > > > > of sailshape with the outhaul, compared to the previous bolt> rope.> > > > >> > > > > I have just added photos of the rig to the “At Last” section of> > the> > > > > photos page on this F21 Forum site.> > > > >> > > > > Derek Plante.> > > > > “At Last”, Lake Macquarie, New South Wales, Australia.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>