Traveller etc.

Archives
1

Posted by Peter Devlin (devlin_peter@…>)

Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how much–
and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?) associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown yucky
liquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude of which I
can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination is to remove
the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-attach the
track. What are those things holding the track to the roof? Are they
aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you think of my idea/
problem? Thanks.

2

Posted by Patrick Weaver (patrick@…>)

— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@…>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?) associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old. However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later. Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also, when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick

3

Posted by Joe Conron (joeconron@…>)


Peter,

The traveler is through-bolted with 5 inch
SS bolts and barrel nuts – these are what appear to you to be
rivets.

There is definitely balsa core in the
cabin roof and you have wet core. You will have to figure out how far the
core has been compromised and decide how to proceed.

When I removed and re-bedded the traveler
on my F21, I was quite surprised to find that TP did not install the
traveler using the standard approach for through-bolting in cored
decks (over-drill hole, fill w/ epoxy, then re-drill smaller hole through epoxy)
– they just dilled straight on through and inserted the bolts.

Good luck,

Joe
Conron
Formerly 1984 F21 Real-Time






From: freedom21@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedom21@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14
PM
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Traveller
etc.




— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com,
“Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@…>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?) associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old. However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later. Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also, when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick

\

4

Posted by Peter Devlin (devlin_peter@…>)

Patrick and Joe, thanks for the replies. Joe, how might one figure
out the extent of core wetness, and how then proceed? Can it dry
out without ripping apart the whole cabin roof?. If it’s left wet
does it get worse? To what extent does it compromise the integrity
of the vessel? Is there any particular hardware required for the ss-
bolts and barrel nuts? Thanks again.

Peter


– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Joe Conron” <joeconron@…> wrote:

Peter,

The traveler is through-bolted with 5 inch SS bolts and barrel
nuts - these
are what appear to you to be rivets.

There is definitely balsa core in the cabin roof and you have wet
core. You
will have to figure out how far the core has been compromised and
decide how
to proceed.

When I removed and re-bedded the traveler on my F21, I was quite
surprised
to find that TP did not install the traveler using the standard
approach
for through-bolting in cored decks (over-drill hole, fill w/
epoxy, then
re-drill smaller hole through epoxy) - they just dilled straight
on through
and inserted the bolts.

Good luck,

Joe Conron

Formerly 1984 F21 Real-Time

From: freedom21@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedom21@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
Of Patrick Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14 PM
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Traveller etc.

— In freedom21@yahoogrou mailto:freedom21%40yahoogroups.com
ps.com,
“Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how
much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?)
associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude
of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination
is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you
think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored
deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you
with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be
of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old.
However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in
magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone
unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later. Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also, when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund
has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I
will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick

5

Posted by Peter Devlin (devlin_peter@…>)
Patrick, I would like that information if you would consider sending it my way. Thank you. PeterPatrick Weaver <patrick@…> wrote: — In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@…> wrote:<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how much–and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?) associated with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude of which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination is to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you think of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>Peter, Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored deck but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you with some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be of the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old. However, if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in magnitudinal proportion.As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone unless you are bedding something that must be removed later. Polysulfide, while much sloppier to work with, gives
better results. Also, when bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund has cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be without a bed.Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I will dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY cat which is of the two-hulled variety.Patrick
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

6

Posted by Nick Marino (blueraven1@…>)

Hi Peter,

-Joe is correct in that barrel nuts are used for the traveler bolts
(and other through bolted items). You need to remove the traveler
and then repair the hole that oozed (water leaking out). Suggest you
do repair from inside as discussed in the article below

" http://www.yachtsurvey.com/DeckLeaks.htmDeteriorated Deck Cores

Sometimes these are repairable, sometimes not depending on where the
problem is and what has to be cut out to the way to tell is to simply
drill a couple of small holes in the underside and see if water runs
out.
The best way to repair deck cores is from the underside when that is
possible. Making repairs is easy, but putting back together
everything that has had to be torn out is where the real work comes
in. The problem with repairing from the exterior is that it is
extremely difficult to accomplish a finish repair that doesn’t look
like its been repaired, and its not a job for an amateur. If you
can’t make the repair from the underside, you should not try an
exterior repair yourself unless you are highly skilled in this sort
of thing. Few people are. If you can’t get access from the underside,
then you have a major and costly problem on your hands."

The usual way for repair is to dig out damaged core and fill with
epoxy. Also, Joe’s comment reparing hole should be considered. There
a lot of info re repairing on the web.

Nick

– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Joe Conron” <joeconron@…> wrote:

Peter,

The traveler is through-bolted with 5 inch SS bolts and barrel
nuts - these
are what appear to you to be rivets.

There is definitely balsa core in the cabin roof and you have wet
core. You
will have to figure out how far the core has been compromised and
decide how
to proceed.

When I removed and re-bedded the traveler on my F21, I was quite
surprised
to find that TP did not install the traveler using the standard
approach
for through-bolting in cored decks (over-drill hole, fill w/ epoxy,
then
re-drill smaller hole through epoxy) - they just dilled straight
on through
and inserted the bolts.

Good luck,

Joe Conron

Formerly 1984 F21 Real-Time

From: freedom21@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedom21@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
Of Patrick Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14 PM
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Traveller etc.

— In freedom21@yahoogrou mailto:freedom21%40yahoogroups.com
ps.com,
“Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how
much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?)
associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored
deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you
with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old.
However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in
magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone
unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later. Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also, when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I
will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick

7

Posted by Peter Devlin (devlin_peter@…>)

Thanks Nick. How much of the deck has a balsa core? All of it?




– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Nick Marino” <blueraven1@…> wrote:

Hi Peter,

-Joe is correct in that barrel nuts are used for the traveler bolts
(and other through bolted items). You need to remove the traveler
and then repair the hole that oozed (water leaking out). Suggest
you
do repair from inside as discussed in the article below

" http://www.yachtsurvey.com/DeckLeaks.htmDeteriorated Deck Cores

Sometimes these are repairable, sometimes not depending on where
the
problem is and what has to be cut out to the way to tell is to
simply
drill a couple of small holes in the underside and see if water
runs
out.
The best way to repair deck cores is from the underside when that
is
possible. Making repairs is easy, but putting back together
everything that has had to be torn out is where the real work comes
in. The problem with repairing from the exterior is that it is
extremely difficult to accomplish a finish repair that doesn’t look
like its been repaired, and its not a job for an amateur. If you
can’t make the repair from the underside, you should not try an
exterior repair yourself unless you are highly skilled in this sort
of thing. Few people are. If you can’t get access from the
underside,
then you have a major and costly problem on your hands."

The usual way for repair is to dig out damaged core and fill with
epoxy. Also, Joe’s comment reparing hole should be considered.
There
a lot of info re repairing on the web.

Nick

– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Joe Conron” <joeconron@> wrote:

Peter,

The traveler is through-bolted with 5 inch SS bolts and barrel
nuts - these
are what appear to you to be rivets.

There is definitely balsa core in the cabin roof and you have wet
core. You
will have to figure out how far the core has been compromised and
decide how
to proceed.

When I removed and re-bedded the traveler on my F21, I was quite
surprised
to find that TP did not install the traveler using the standard
approach
for through-bolting in cored decks (over-drill hole, fill w/
epoxy,
then
re-drill smaller hole through epoxy) - they just dilled straight
on through
and inserted the bolts.

Good luck,

Joe Conron

Formerly 1984 F21 Real-Time

From: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedom21@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
Of Patrick Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14 PM
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Traveller etc.

— In freedom21@yahoogrou mailto:freedom21%40yahoogroups.com
ps.com,
“Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or how
much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?)
associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the magnitude
of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My inclination
is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you
think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored
deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide you
with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not be
of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old.
However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in
magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone
unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later.
Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also,
when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund
has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and I
will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY
cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick

8

Posted by Nick Marino (blueraven1@…>)

Peter,
Most of the parts you walk on has balsa core. Some like the sloped
area just forward of the hatch does not have core. You can see the
end of core at the edge just before the hull - to - deck joint. What
kind of core is in the raised section for the traveler is unknown.
Nick


— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@…>
wrote:

Thanks Nick. How much of the deck has a balsa core? All of it?

– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Nick Marino” <blueraven1@> wrote:

Hi Peter,

-Joe is correct in that barrel nuts are used for the traveler
bolts
(and other through bolted items). You need to remove the
traveler
and then repair the hole that oozed (water leaking out). Suggest
you
do repair from inside as discussed in the article below

" http://www.yachtsurvey.com/DeckLeaks.htmDeteriorated Deck
Cores

Sometimes these are repairable, sometimes not depending on where
the
problem is and what has to be cut out to the way to tell is to
simply
drill a couple of small holes in the underside and see if water
runs
out.
The best way to repair deck cores is from the underside when that
is
possible. Making repairs is easy, but putting back together
everything that has had to be torn out is where the real work
comes
in. The problem with repairing from the exterior is that it is
extremely difficult to accomplish a finish repair that doesn’t
look
like its been repaired, and its not a job for an amateur. If you
can’t make the repair from the underside, you should not try an
exterior repair yourself unless you are highly skilled in this
sort
of thing. Few people are. If you can’t get access from the
underside,
then you have a major and costly problem on your hands."

The usual way for repair is to dig out damaged core and fill with
epoxy. Also, Joe’s comment reparing hole should be considered.
There
a lot of info re repairing on the web.

Nick

– In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Joe Conron” <joeconron@> wrote:

Peter,

The traveler is through-bolted with 5 inch SS bolts and barrel
nuts - these
are what appear to you to be rivets.

There is definitely balsa core in the cabin roof and you have
wet
core. You
will have to figure out how far the core has been compromised
and
decide how
to proceed.

When I removed and re-bedded the traveler on my F21, I was
quite
surprised
to find that TP did not install the traveler using the
standard
approach
for through-bolting in cored decks (over-drill hole, fill w/
epoxy,
then
re-drill smaller hole through epoxy) - they just dilled
straight
on through
and inserted the bolts.

Good luck,

Joe Conron

Formerly 1984 F21 Real-Time

From: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedom21@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
Of Patrick Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:14 PM
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedom21] Re: Traveller etc.

— In freedom21@yahoogrou mailto:freedom21%40yahoogroups.com
ps.com,
“Peter Devlin” <devlin_peter@>
wrote:
<<Water has gotten into my cabin roof–I’m not sure where or
how
much-
-and when it froze, it popped off the washer and rivet(?)
associated
with the traveller, on the inside port side. I have seen brown
yucky iquid ooze out from the same place, a bummer the
magnitude
of
which I can’t or don’t want to consider too much. My
inclination
is
to remove the traveller “track” completely, apply silicon and
re-
attach the track. What are those things holding the track to
the
roof? Are they aluminum bolts, or rivets or what? What do you
think
of my idea/ problem? Thanks.>>

Peter,

Not owning a Freedom 21, I don’t know if you have a balsa-cored
deck
but your symptoms would suggest you do. If so, I can provide
you
with
some information about making repairs. The bummerness may not
be
of
the magnitude you anticipate if the problem is not too old.
However,
if you DON’T contemplate it, the problem can increase in
magnitudinal
proportion.

As far as bedding, in general, I would not recommend silicone
unless
you are bedding something that must be removed later.
Polysulfide,
while much sloppier to work with, gives better results. Also,
when
bedding, do not fasten down all the way until after the compund
has
cured or the compound will all squeeze out and your item will
be
without a bed.

Let me know if the core repair info would be of assistance and
I
will
dig it out. I am currently making repairs to the deck(s) of MY
cat
which is of the two-hulled variety.

Patrick