Windows

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been
pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Larry:You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with glass. Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner attempted to solve some weeping problems by packing the area under the inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few small dams the sent any leaks down behind the wood cabin liner AND it glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum ring from the wood
and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the ring…but to slice it free.Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be a bit difficult to remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you will have a chance to see the material that is holding down and (partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it rubbery, then it is silicone…and your
days ahead are brighter. I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much persuation on the outside to free up the port. Let me know if I can help further.Best of luck.FargoNARISA F30 #12Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@…> wrote: Hey group, We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that 4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are opening ports. So the ventilation could be better. 1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing the windows? 2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost impossible to remove from what I’ve read here) 3. Has anyone put opening
ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that are currently on the boat? I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing, but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows. Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad? Larry Kraus

Posted by Merrick White (r__merrick_white@…>)

Larry,

We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same
problems you described.

I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint. Removing the
old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The hard
part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the openings. An
old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie pad
scrub down with denatured alchol.

I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh blade for
each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow the
acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.

We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by Practical
Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your way from
one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve of the
boat.

The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch stripe on
the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.

The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch to
replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have
been
pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local
marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and
noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of
this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this
issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are
pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or
galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or
    replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi
    windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been
doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Thank you for the reply, Fargo. It sounds like your windows are framed.
Ours are not. They are some type of plexi that is screwed to the
outside of the fiberglass topside opening, and caulked around the
outside of the plexi. There is a white caulk around the plexi and I
didn’t check for hard or soft texture.

Let me know how yours turns out. I’ll do the same.

LK

Fargo Rousseau wrote:


Larry:

You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The
fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in
many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all
out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you
the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with
glass.

Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in
a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner
attempted to solve some weeping problems by packing the area under the
inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing
for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few
small dams the sent any leaks down behind the wood cabin liner AND it
glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the
removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum
ring from the wood and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin
long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to
insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and
strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping
it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the
ring…but to slice it free.

Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you
won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be
a bit difficult to remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge
of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you
will have a chance to see the material that is holding down and
(partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white
silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver
blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it
rubbery, then it is silicone…and your days ahead are brighter.

I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the
back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see
daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout
was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so
there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a
had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much
persuation on the outside to free up the port.

Let me know if I can help further.

Best of luck.

Fargo

NARISA F30 #12

Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net>
wrote:


Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been

pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed
that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley
are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows
    that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus






\

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Thank you for the reply. It sounds like you have been very successful
in your replacement.

2 questions:

  1. Did you consider lexan or tempered glass along with your choice of
    acrylic? Your comment about the slight curve may knock the tempered
    glass idea right out of the box. It was suggested to me as a way to
    prevent scratching and the hazing of the plastics.

  2. Did you consider adding any kind of opening ports in place of the
    fixed windows? I’ve seen some on other boats that have been added
    inside the outer dimensions of the fixed window. It looks like a hole
    has been cut in the plexi and the opening port added. I’d sure like
    some cross ventilation in the sloan and galley area.

Thanks again for your comments.

LK



Merrick White wrote:


Larry,

We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same
problems you described.

I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint. Removing the
old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The hard
part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the openings. An
old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie pad
scrub down with denatured alchol.

I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh blade for
each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow the
acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.

We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by Practical
Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your way from
one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve of the
boat.

The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch stripe on
the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.

The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch to
replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have

been

pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local
marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and
noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of
this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this
issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are
pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or
galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or
    replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost

impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  1. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi
    windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been
doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus




\

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)


Larry:

The March/April 2006 edition of Good Old Boat has an article on installing unframed fixed ports on coach top sides.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry KrausSent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:41 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Windows

Thank you for the reply. It sounds like you have been very successful in your replacement. 2 questions:1. Did you consider lexan or tempered glass along with your choice of acrylic? Your comment about the slight curve may knock the tempered glass idea right out of the box. It was suggested to me as a way to prevent scratching and the hazing of the plastics. 2. Did you consider adding any kind of opening ports in place of the fixed windows? I’ve seen some on other boats that have been added inside the outer dimensions of the fixed window. It looks like a hole has been cut in the plexi and the opening port added. I’d sure like some cross ventilation in the sloan and galley area.Thanks again for your comments.LKMerrick White wrote:


Larry,We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same problems you described.I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint. Removing the old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The hard part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the openings. An old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie pad scrub down with denatured alchol.I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh blade for each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow the acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by Practical Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your way from one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve of the boat.The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch stripe on the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch to replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now. — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@…> wrote:>> Hey group,> > We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been > pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine > mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that > 4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this > from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue > is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty > crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are > opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.> > 1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing > the windows?> > 2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost > impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)> > 3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that > are currently on the boat?> > I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing, > but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.> > Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?> > Larry Kraus>

IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor

This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Posted by Merrick White (r__merrick_white@…>)

Larry,

I never considered tempered glass and Lexan is not suitable because
of how quickly it will haze.

I thought about opening ports, but the existing 6 hatches seem to do
the job for us. On hot days with no breeze we use a new low amp Hela
fan, which - while expensive, is far less costly than opening ports.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Thank you for the reply. It sounds like you have been very
successful in
your replacement.

2 questions:

  1. Did you consider lexan or tempered glass along with your choice
    of
    acrylic? Your comment about the slight curve may knock the
    tempered
    glass idea right out of the box. It was suggested to me as a way
    to
    prevent scratching and the hazing of the plastics.

  2. Did you consider adding any kind of opening ports in place of
    the
    fixed windows? I’ve seen some on other boats that have been added
    inside
    the outer dimensions of the fixed window. It looks like a hole has
    been
    cut in the plexi and the opening port added. I’d sure like some
    cross
    ventilation in the sloan and galley area.

Thanks again for your comments.

LK

Merrick White wrote:

Larry,

We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same
problems you described.

I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint. Removing
the
old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The hard
part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the openings. An
old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie pad
scrub down with denatured alchol.

I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh blade
for
each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow the
acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.

We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by Practical
Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your way
from
one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve of
the
boat.

The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch
stripe on
the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.

The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch
to
replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
mailto:freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@> wrote:

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items
have
been
pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local
marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and
noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence
of
this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So
this
issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are
pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or
galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or
    replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200
    (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi
    windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been
doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Thank you Al. I’ll look it up.

LK

Lorman, Alvin J. wrote:




Larry:

The March/April 2006 edition of Good Old Boat
has an article on installing unframed fixed ports on coach top sides.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Kraus
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:41 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Windows



Thank you for the reply. It sounds like you have been very
successful in your replacement.

2 questions:

  1. Did you consider lexan or tempered glass along with your choice of
    acrylic? Your comment about the slight curve may knock the tempered
    glass idea right out of the box. It was suggested to me as a way to
    prevent scratching and the hazing of the plastics.

  2. Did you consider adding any kind of opening ports in place of the
    fixed windows? I’ve seen some on other boats that have been added
    inside the outer dimensions of the fixed window. It looks like a hole
    has been cut in the plexi and the opening port added. I’d sure like
    some cross ventilation in the sloan and galley area.

Thanks again for your comments.

LK



Merrick White wrote:



Larry,

We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same
problems you described.

I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint. Removing the
old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The hard
part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the openings. An
old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie pad
scrub down with denatured alchol.

I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh blade for
each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow the
acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.

We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by Practical
Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your way from
one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve of the
boat.

The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch stripe on
the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.

The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch to
replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have

been

pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local
marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and
noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of
this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this
issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are
pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or
galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or
    replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost

impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  1. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi
    windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been
doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus






\

IRS CIRCULAR
230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither
written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of
avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any
person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or
recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or
arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support
the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe
& Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer
should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from
an independent tax advisor

This email and
any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the
individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not
the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
e-mail.

\

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Okay Merrick. Thank you for your insights!

LK

Merrick White wrote:


Larry,

I never considered tempered glass and Lexan is not suitable because
of how quickly it will haze.

I thought about opening ports, but the existing 6 hatches seem to do
the job for us. On hot days with no breeze we use a new low amp Hela
fan, which - while expensive, is far less costly than opening ports.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Thank you for the reply. It sounds like you have been very
successful in
your replacement.

2 questions:

  1. Did you consider lexan or tempered glass along with your choice

of

acrylic? Your comment about the slight curve may knock the
tempered
glass idea right out of the box. It was suggested to me as a way
to
prevent scratching and the hazing of the plastics.

  1. Did you consider adding any kind of opening ports in place of
    the
    fixed windows? I’ve seen some on other boats that have been added
    inside
    the outer dimensions of the fixed window. It looks like a hole has

been

cut in the plexi and the opening port added. I’d sure like some
cross
ventilation in the sloan and galley area.

Thanks again for your comments.

LK

Merrick White wrote:

Larry,

We replaced the ports on our F32 in July because of the same
problems you described.

I got thicker acrylic (3/8") in the light bronze tint.
Removing
the
old acrylic was a snap, as was installing the new panes. The
hard
part was cleaning the 2 layers of old caulk from the
openings. An
old dull chisel and WD40 worked best - followed by a greenie
pad
scrub down with denatured alchol.

I cut the new ports out with a saber saw and used a fresh
blade
for
each port. If you leave the paper on the acrylic and go slow
the
acrylic will not overheat and flow back into the cut.

We used the Ace Hardware adhesive caulk recommended by
Practical
Sailor Magazine. When screwing the new port down, work your
way
from
one end of the port to the other to follow the slight curve
of
the
boat.

The only thing I would do different is paint a 1 or 2 inch
stripe on
the inside edge of each port to give a more finished look.

The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way
hatch
to
replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com

mailto:freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.com,
Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@> wrote:

Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance
items
have
been
pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the
local
marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good,
and
noticed that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little
evidence
of
this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer.
So
this
issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the
windows are
pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the
salon or
galley are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows,
    or
    replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M
    5200
    (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed
    plexi
    windows that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people
have been
doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the
windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus




\

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Larry:Success. All ports are out. We were able to remove most of the oozing silicone caulk from the inside of the port opening before trying to push the ports out. This made it much easier to remove the port. You may want to do the same if you can reach your plexi glazing from the inside.FargoLarry Kraus <kracherlandl@…> wrote: Thank you for the reply, Fargo. It sounds like your windows are framed. Ours are not. They are some type of plexi that is screwed to the outside of the
fiberglass topside opening, and caulked around the outside of the plexi. There is a white caulk around the plexi and I didn’t check for hard or soft texture. Let me know how yours turns out. I’ll do the same. LK Fargo Rousseau wrote: Larry: You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with glass. Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner attempted to solve
some weeping problems by packing the area under the inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few small dams the sent any leaks down behind the wood cabin liner AND it glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum ring from the wood and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the ring…but to slice it free. Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be a bit difficult to
remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you will have a chance to see the material that is holding down and (partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it rubbery, then it is silicone…and your days ahead are brighter. I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much persuation on the outside to free up the port. Let me know
if I can help further. Best of luck. Fargo NARISA F30 #12 Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net> wrote: Hey group, We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that 4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are opening ports. So the ventilation could be better. 1. Has anyone had any experiences
rebedding the windows, or replacing the windows? 2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost impossible to remove from what I’ve read here) 3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that are currently on the boat? I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing, but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows. Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad? Larry Kraus

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)


Fargo:

Are you photographing your work? I will ultimately have to do the same to my F30 and I’m always happy to borrow someone else’s ideas.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo RousseauSent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:08 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Windows

Larry:Success. All ports are out. We were able to remove most of the oozing silicone caulk from the inside of the port opening before trying to push the ports out. This made it much easier to remove the port. You may want to do the same if you can reach your plexi glazing from the inside.FargoLarry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net> wrote:


Thank you for the reply, Fargo. It sounds like your windows are framed. Ours are not. They are some type of plexi that is screwed to the outside of the fiberglass topside opening, and caulked around the outside of the plexi. There is a white caulk around the plexi and I didn’t check for hard or soft texture.Let me know how yours turns out. I’ll do the same. LKFargo Rousseau wrote:


Larry:You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with glass. Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner attempted to solve some weeping problems by packing the area under the inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few small dams the sent any leaks down behind the wood cabin liner AND it glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum ring from the wood and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the ring…but to slice it free.Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be a bit difficult to remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you will have a chance to see the material that is holding down and (partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it rubbery, then it is silicone…and your days ahead are brighter. I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much persuation on the outside to free up the port. Let me know if I can help further.Best of luck.FargoNARISA F30 #12Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net> wrote:


Hey group,We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that 4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing the windows?2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that are currently on the boat?I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing, but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?Larry Kraus

\

IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor

This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
I got them all out today…after a final two hours of craping and detailed picking to remove all possible caulking from the “backside” of the fixed ports. Did not take pictures… sorry. As I reported the other day, my ports were extra difficult to remove because the previous owner had “potted” them in with black silicone. This glued down the inner clamping/trim aluminum ring…and covered the true sealing caulking area. My wife was a great held…because she had the patience to slowly remove this black covering of silicone…and work her way down to the real seal. Once all of the reachable original white sealing silicone was remove from the inside…the ports were not that hard to remove. Will keep you posted on the next step…and try to take some pictures… Now I have to take the ports apart…to remove the old glazing. Am considering glass as a replacement.Fargo"Lorman, Alvin J."
<ajlorman@…> wrote: Fargo: Are you photographing your work? I will ultimately have to do the same to my F30 and I’m always happy to borrow someone else’s ideas. Al Lorman F30 Ab Initio -----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo RousseauSent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:08 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Windows Larry:Success. All ports are out. We were able to remove most of the oozing silicone caulk from the inside of the port opening before trying to push the ports out. This made it much easier to remove the port. You may want to do the same if you can reach your plexi glazing from the inside.FargoLarry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net> wrote: Thank you for the reply, Fargo. It sounds like your windows are framed. Ours are not. They are some type of plexi that is screwed to the outside of the fiberglass topside opening, and caulked around the outside of the plexi. There is a white caulk around the plexi and I didn’t check for hard or soft texture.Let me know how yours turns out. I’ll do the same. LKFargo Rousseau wrote: Larry:You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with glass. Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner attempted to solve some weeping problems by packing the area under the inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few small dams the sent any leaks down behind
the wood cabin liner AND it glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum ring from the wood and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the ring…but to slice it free.Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be a bit difficult to remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you will have a chance to see the material that is holding down
and (partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it rubbery, then it is silicone…and your days ahead are brighter. I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much persuation on the outside to free up the port. Let me know if I can help further.Best of luck.FargoNARISA F30 #12Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net> wrote: Hey group,We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed that 4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley are opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing the windows?2. Are the windows
likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows that are currently on the boat?I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing, but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?Larry Kraus IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot
be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
e-mail.

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Just a suggestion: Consider tempered glass so that if they break, they
don’t shatter in a million pieces.

LK

Fargo Rousseau wrote:


I got them all out today…after a final two hours of craping and
detailed picking to remove all possible caulking from the “backside” of
the fixed ports. Did not take pictures… sorry.

As I reported the other day, my ports were extra difficult to remove
because the previous owner had “potted” them in with black silicone.
This glued down the inner clamping/trim aluminum ring…and covered
the true sealing caulking area. My wife was a great held…because she
had the patience to slowly remove this black covering of silicone…and
work her way down to the real seal. Once all of the reachable original
white sealing silicone was remove from the inside…the ports were not
that hard to remove.

Will keep you posted on the next step…and try to take some
pictures… Now I have to take the ports apart…to remove the old
glazing. Am considering glass as a replacement.

Fargo

“Lorman, Alvin J.” <ajlorman@yahoo.com>
wrote:




Fargo:

Are you photographing your work? I will
ultimately have to do the same to my F30 and I’m always happy to borrow
someone else’s ideas.

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo
Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:08 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Windows



Larry:

Success. All ports are out. We were able to remove most of the oozing
silicone caulk from the inside of the port opening before trying to
push the ports out. This made it much easier to remove the port. You
may want to do the same if you can reach your plexi glazing from the
inside.

Fargo

Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net>
wrote:


Thank you for the reply, Fargo. It sounds like your windows
are framed. Ours are not. They are some type of plexi that is screwed
to the outside of the fiberglass topside opening, and caulked around
the outside of the plexi. There is a white caulk around the plexi and I
didn’t check for hard or soft texture.

Let me know how yours turns out. I’ll do the same.

LK

Fargo Rousseau wrote:



Larry:

You catch us in mid stage on the port removal task on our F30. The
fixed ports are aluminum framed Bomar units…and may be similar in
many ways to what you are about to deal with. When we get them all
out, I plan to send them up to a shop in Rhode Island (will give you
the name if interested) and have the crazed plastic panels replace with
glass.

Back to step one…removal. Our fixed ports were originally bedded in
a light smear of white silcone…not 5200. BUT… the previous owner
attempted to solve some weeping problems by packing the area under the
inner finishing/clamping ring with black silicone. This did nothing
for the minor leaks, as you can imagine. But it effectively built a few
small dams the sent any leaks down behind the wood cabin liner AND it
glued the inside ring to the window…so… it did make the
removal a lot harder. We had to patiently separate the inner aluminum
ring from the wood and edge of the window frame. I found a very thin
long razor blade and holder (about 4 inches long) and was able to
insert this under the ring. This takes a lot of patience and
strength…but it is possible to work the knive along slowly…keeping
it very flat to the wood surface. I know of no other way to free the
ring…but to slice it free.

Of course, if you have never packed this area with Silicone…then you
won’t have to deal with this stage of the job… But… it still may be
a bit difficult to remove the inside ring. Once it is free and the edge
of the wood and fiberglass cabin cutout is visible from the inside, you
will have a chance to see the material that is holding down and
(partially) sealing your port. Again, on our boat it is white
silicone…and clearly visible…and reachable with a small screwdriver
blade. If it is white…but very stiff…then it could be 5200. If it
rubbery, then it is silicone…and your days ahead are brighter.

I scraped away as much of this bedding silicone as I could from the
back side of the frame. As we were scraping I could begin to see
daylight along the bedded edge… Frankly…on our boat…the cutout
was far too large for the frame… and roughly cut by hand…so
there was not much really holding onto the aluminum frame by the time a
had scraped away the excess ooze. So…I did not have to use much
persuation on the outside to free up the port.

Let me know if I can help further.

Best of luck.

Fargo

NARISA F30 #12

Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@bitstream.net>
wrote:


Hey group,

We purchased an F32 1984, in February. Most maintenance items have been

pretty easy, with the help of our new best friend, the local marine
mechanic. This weekend, we scrubbed her down real good, and noticed
that
4 of our 6 windows leak. Oddly enough, we saw little evidence of this
from your average, everyday rain storms over the summer. So this issue
is not a panic. Another piece of info is that the windows are pretty
crazed, or hazy. Finally, none of the windows in the salon or galley
are
opening ports. So the ventilation could be better.

  1. Has anyone had any experiences rebedding the windows, or replacing
    the windows?

  2. Are the windows likely to be held in place with 3M 5200 (almost
    impossible to remove from what I’ve read here)

  3. Has anyone put opening ports in place of the fixed plexi windows
    that
    are currently on the boat?

I’ve read alot about the hatch cover work that people have been doing,
but I’m not sure any of that discussion related to the windows.

Any ideas, history , or experiences good or bad?

Larry Kraus











\

IRS CIRCULAR
230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither
written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of
avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any
person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or
recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or
arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support
the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe
& Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer
should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from
an independent tax advisor

This email
and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you
are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or
copy this e-mail.




\

Posted by Melissa (kalicinm@…>)
The left over acrylic is becoming a 3 piece companion way hatch to replace the hard-to-store 1 piece unit we have now. In response to this: I’m not sure about the F33’s but I found on my F38, the “hard to store 1 piece’ companion way hatch fits perfectly well slid under the top companion way hatch when its slid open (I noticed that’s where Paul Dennis fit it when we were going over my boat last year) How convienient I must say (unless you want the top hatch closed and the front one open…then back to the “hard-to-store” 1 piece unit …“Doh!” Melissa s/v Acedia F38"Pollution is a silent form of violence” -Ralph Nader
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Posted by Medium Al (hjulbyhavn@…>)

My '86 F21 has the same Plastic/Acrylic windows.

They are easy to re-bed - but it is a lot of work getting the old
Silicone off.

Re-bed them with 3M 5200 - you might want to add a couple through bolts
in the bottom corners - at least mine did not have that.

The Acrylic can be cleaned with Toothpaste or a similar mild rubbing
compound. Make sure not to rub in the same spot long enough to heat it
up as it will melt/burn and just get worse.

I also saw replacements for mine but forgot where.