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Re: Self tacking jib on the sloop rig.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:05 pm
by sailmon
Appreciate the feedback. We've been sailing Freedoms for 17 years (F30 for 11 and current F38 for 6) - and have full appreciation of benefits of camberspar jib. Will hopefully retire, move aboard and head out in 4 1/2 years - so trying to plan ahead with respect to best sail inventory. We don't plan to carry a large inventory and don't want to spend a lot of money for sails and gear that will not see much use. Had a gunmount spi on the 30 - pain to set up but fun to sail. Sounds like a light air sail on furler might be nice addition but not replacement for self-tacking jib. I have a S/L manual windlass. Are you using a power unit - wonder if that makes a difference in anchoring with camberspar jib in place - even if pushed off to side. Do you carry a kayak? Where do you carry your dinghy?

Re: Self tacking jib on the sloop rig.

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:15 am
by GeoffSchultz
sailmon wrote:Do you carry a kayak? Where do you carry your dinghy?
No kayak and I carry the dinghy on davits. See

-- Geoff

Re: Self tacking jib on the sloop rig.

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:08 pm
by vicdemattia
I've owned a F45 and still own a F21. I've sailed many of the Freedom rigs on deliveries for the factory. While there may be minor benefits hard on the wind for the overlapping jibs, in my opinion, the moment you crack off you will be missing the camberspar. When you sail well off the wind, the difference in performance is quite substantial showing the real brilliance of the camberspar.

I've also owned a superbly performing boat with the ability to sail less than 30 degrees AWA. If you were to release the tension on the hydraulic backstay, that would drop as much as 10 degrees pretty quickly. I've never run one of the 40/40s with the running back stays, but I'd be willing to bet that you could quickly pick up 5 or more degrees pointing angle with such a rig on the camberspar jib. I love that rig so much that I had a jib boom included in the design of my Aerodyne 47. That provided stellar performance off the wind with a relatively small sail. While that was able to be rollerfurled, the cost and complexity of the carbon jib boom probably did little more than one could attain with a camber spar and equal forestay tension.

Can anyone with runners on a 40/40 verify this?


Re: Self tacking jib on the sloop rig.

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:42 pm
by unfetteredalexandria
Do you have a staysail on your F21, and if so, what if any is the overlap, and how is it rigged?

Re: Self tacking jib on the sloop rig.

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:12 am
by Hans
We have a 45ft aftcockpit and a F38 sloop, both with camberspar, 38ft with 2/3 and 45ft with 7/8 rig.
In general I could'nt agree more with Rick's post on jan 1. And when going on a cruise I certainly would'nt go without the camberspar, every advantage of it has already been mentioned in
the previous posts.
The mast on my 45ft is taller and therefore much more flexible then on the 38 ft, or maybe because of the 7/8 rig more mastbend is created by the larger ( almost double) jib.
The 45ft came with backstays ( runners?) made of Kevlar. Sailing against the wind in a 3 knot tide I used the backstays to stabilize the mast. Did'nt work well. You never eradicate the mast movement completely. There's always some backward movement creating slack in the backstay but a sudden jerking stop when the masttop goes forward. After 36 hours of sailing ( contionously taking slack out of the backstay; so where's the Freedom principle? ) the blocks ( SWL 1 ton) parted. Stronger blocks did'nt help. I changed the Kevlar lines by nylon ones which absorbs the shocks much better now.
Pointing higher to the wind is at least 8 degrees. But by now I only use the runners on longer trips when pointing high is really needed to make the mark. So they are aboard but I use them seldom.
Same for the gennaker which came aboard when the boat was commisioned in 1993. She has been used, but from her looks: seldomly. I sailed this boat now for some 5000 miles, used the genny only once, and it did'nt help in speed much either. Coming from other boats and not enough familiar with the Freedom concept: I did made the mistake to order a code zero.
So far I have'nt had the opportunity to use it at all! Wind around the Caribean Isles tends to be irregular and gusty and I never had it less then 15 knots. So much for the code zero.

I am by nature a cruising sailor, but also as Rick points out, (certainly) interested in performance. So I try to optimize within the Freedom concept, like a squaretop mainsail for the 38ft.( 45ft is pending )
Other wishes: next jib on the 45ft will be smáller by moving the forestay a little back from the bowsprit, at present it's to large to my liking. Usable windrange is to small compared with the 38ft jib.
Should I give any advice: just stick to main and camber spar. Easy to handle; extra light weather sails are not worthwile in my opinion: they take up a lot of space aboard while seldomly useful. Backstays do help for pointing higher to the wind, but beware of the forces and risk of damage in a choppy sea.

Concerned with foredeck space and want to have a clear foredeck? Untie the end of the camberpar and drop it on the deck, shove it to the side and have plenty of room to work.

good sailing,