F21 bilge pump

Fresh/Waste Water Systems, Watermakers, HVAC, Refrigeration...
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newt2u
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

F21 bilge pump

Post by newt2u »

I wanted to get some advice on positioning an electric bilge pump on my Freedom 21. My only through hulls are in the forward cabin but apart from the routing of cables this is isolated from the main cabin by bulkheads. Ditto the under cockpit bilge, although there is a 1” hole maybe used previously for gas pipes electrics between that and the main cabin. Both holes a long way above the lowest point.

What have other F21 owners done?

hkowalczyk
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by hkowalczyk »

Mine runs through the starboard locker and drains into the cockpit to drain out the scuppers. Works fine since I trailer sail and mainly drain the bilge after it rains.

newt2u
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by newt2u »

Thanks for your response. However, I intend to keep my F21 on a mooring over the summer months and the most likely problem would be the log wheel in the storage in the cabin, so thats one potential site. Over the winter and we’ve had a lot of rain and I have had about an inch or two of rain below the cockpit, through the lockers, so another potential site. Maybe I need to fit more than one.

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Castaway
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: Lerwick, Shetland Isles

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by Castaway »

On my UK–built F21, the bilge is a continuous space beneath both the cockpit and the cabin sole, so only one pump out position is needed. If you are leaving the boat unattended on a mooring, and presuming you don't have either shore power or large battery capacity, you might better meet the need for keeping the bilge empty with a wave actuated pump. There are several different varieties on the market in Europe, some sitting in the water witha tube into the boat (I would lead it through the cockpit locker and over the stern), and one that has an elastic connection between the mooring and the boat, so that boat movement provides the power.

If you have enough power to run an electric pump for any length of time, then that is probably the way to go, but certainly the battery I have for my small boat wouldn't last for a wet week.
Gerald Freshwater,
s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch, centreboard, 1987)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland

newt2u
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by newt2u »

Hi castaway... thanks for your response, I found it interesting in the differences in construction it implied. Anyway mine is all done now and am waiting for lockdown restrictions to get her bottom wet and ensure everything works OK.

I have installed a low profile electrical pump in the cabin bilge area. However, I also drilled holes through to the main cabin bilge from the forward cabin lockers below the floor level. This is where my only through hull is located and although there are other holes to connect the spaces, these are all above floor level. I also have 100Ahr of battery with 100W of solar input. This pump exits to the cockpit floor and on out through the stern self draining holes.

Being paranoid, I also fitted a wave-actuated pump to the cockpit bilge area, I used the one that uses warp line movement as I will now be on a sheltered marina berth, so there will not be much wave motion. Anyway I noticed the cabin bilge area tended to fill up during heavy rain but there little or no ingress to the cabin bilge. In my boat, which I assume is UK built, there is a bulkhead bonded to the hull between cockpit and cabin bilges (i.e. at the foot of the quarter berths). There is a space at the top of this bulkhead of about 1cm all around the cockpit tub profile, i.e. just below the cockpit floor at its lowest but no connection at hull level.

Anyway I am fairly confident the problem is solved now, can't wait to get sailing as this will be my first season in this little boat. Where is your F21 kept? I will be in Milford Haven when restrictions are lifted.

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Castaway
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: Lerwick, Shetland Isles

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by Castaway »

Hello Newt2u,

I hadn't realised you were UK based; there is no clue from your profile. I have a Freedom 21 with a carbon fibre mast and lifting bilge keels, which is one of two versions made in the UK, the other having the Collins Tandem Keel. The latter had a reputation for better sailing performance, but was less popular. I suspect it may have had much more stiffening in the hull, since the centre line of the BK version is quite flexible. Certainly there is no separation of the main cabin and cockpit bilge, though the interior moulding gives no access except for a lift out panel in the cabin sole. The under-berth lockers each side and forward are separate from this bilge.

"Skeba" is presently ashore in Lerwick, though I hope to sell her shortly, since she is a little light for the sort of sailing I now enjoy, being somewhat elderly. I like to be able to put my drink down, tack, and not find the beer spilt afterward! She was purchased to be taken to Spain, and used there intermittently, but berthing fees were too great for the infrequent use we made of her, so we brought her back home. Berthing here is inexpensive, but the sailing season is 'summer only' for a small sailing boat. We have a Freedom 35 which we have sailed extensively in northern waters, mostly the Baltic Sea, and this is the focus of our maritime activity.

There are a number of posts on this forum by Wilf Bishop, who has an F21, concerning his extensive restoration and upgrading. He keeps her on Lake Windemere, though he has not been active on this site more recently. Search the site for his posts, and you will find some excellent information about the boat.
Gerald Freshwater,
s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch, centreboard, 1987)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland

newt2u
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by newt2u »

I am a bit reluctant to expose too much information generally online better to embed in a post when required... but have added a location now.

Yes forward lockers were isolated from the cabin bilge but now I have a couple of drain holes from either side into the main cabin bilge, the pump is below the lift up panel in the sole, so any ingress from my through hull will drain down to this point. However, as I said before, water can accumulate in the cockpit bilge as it is separated from the cabin bilge by a bulkhead bonded to the hull. I will try to attach a couple of pictures taken from the starboard cockpit locker that has access to the bilge. You can see the bulkhead. I only get water from the cockpit to the main cabin when the water gets up to the hole for electrics and now my bilge pump pipe. In one photo you can still see a little water against the bulkhead. My mechanical pump scavenge pipe is under the old anode.

I am not sure what year my boat “Rockin” was built, maybe the design was changed at some point, it would certainly stiffen up the structure to have a fully bonded bulkhead there.

I seem to be travelling the other way to you, downsizing to the F21 from a Coaster 33, which is currently up for sale, although my prospective buyers can’t get to view it atm. For me we were not getting enough usage from the cruiser as my other half is a reluctant sailor. The F21 should be manageable single handed and give some more time afloat. I also sail dinghies but inland. Home in Shropshire holiday home in Milford Haven.

Thanks for the input on Wilf Bishop, I have seen a lot of his posts and detailed documents.
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newt2u
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: F21 bilge pump

Post by newt2u »

P.s. you will need to stand on your head to see the photos right way up.

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