storm sail on a F30 CK?

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storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby seadago » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:55 pm

Has anyone ever felt the need to fly a storm sail on an F 30 CK? I've been considering a scenario with very bad weather, when the only option is to follow the wind whilst keeping adequate steerage. This is purely speculative. If and when this scenario presents itself, I'll do my level best to be nice and cosy sitting on a pub, sipping a cold one. Nevertheless, sh*t happens. The only option I can think of is to fly a small, low profile storm sail off the mizzen. I was wondering if anyone in the forum found him/herself in these straits, or ever used this arrangement. And if the latter, what's the design of the sail? Any input much appreciated. Thanks!
Last edited by seadago on Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rafael
s/v Nausikaa
SSR 30570, sail GBR 4619L
F30 CK (Hoyt), wishbones, centreboard, G10 rig. Built by Fairways Marine, Humble, UK, '82
Beta 16 hp with two-blade prop
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby marno » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:00 pm

I have an Express 39 and got stuck in 60 plus knots for about 9 hours about four days out from the UK. I set the third reef in the main and set us diagonally to the waves. It was fairly comfortable and uneventful. I do have a series drogue for just in case it gets really nasty but never had to use it.
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby seadago » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:45 pm

Thanks Marno. Wow... 60 knots is one hec of a blow. Yep, that's the scenario I'm thinking of. Less than that too! :roll:
I have two reefs on the main. Maybe I should install a third one
Rafael
s/v Nausikaa
SSR 30570, sail GBR 4619L
F30 CK (Hoyt), wishbones, centreboard, G10 rig. Built by Fairways Marine, Humble, UK, '82
Beta 16 hp with two-blade prop
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby peaceandfreedom » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:41 am

P.o. of my Freedom 33CK purchased a storm sail which to this date has never been used, and I hope it stays that way. The sail is to be flown on the main mast. I would strongly advise against using the mizzen mast, because of the loss of steering control.

Happy sailing Jim D.
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby Castaway » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:00 pm

We have a strongly built blade staysail, which can be set from the mizzen to a hard eye on the coachroof, and supported by a running backstay. We use it on long reaches, but have never tried it in heavy weather.

When we have been at sea in a gale, we lay hove-to with only the foot of the main set (the bit below the wishbone), the traveller hauled to windward, and fore-reached 5nm in about 8 hours. It was less violent than the motion when we were sailing, though still not very comfortable, but this was due to the confused sea with wind across current, not just the wind strength. The PO said he just lay a-hull under bare poles, or else streamed long warps astern, but this was with mid-Atlantic sea room.
Gerald Freshwater,
s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch, centreboard, 1987)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby seadago » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:02 pm

peaceandfreedom wrote:P.o. of my Freedom 33CK purchased a storm sail which to this date has never been used, and I hope it stays that way. The sail is to be flown on the main mast. I would strongly advise against using the mizzen mast, because of the loss of steering control.

Happy sailing Jim D.


Hi Jim. Thanks! Yep, I considered loss of steering. To be frank, I need to trial different configurations to form an opinion as to what would be best. I've been through the available sail plan docs for these boats and found no reference or inclusion of a storm sail, so I don't think it was considered in the original design. If you fly yours from the main mast, is that replacing the main sail itself on the mast track? i.e. behind the mast as a trysail, or before the mast as a storm jib?
My initial thought was for a small, low profile sail that I could fly on a removable forestay off the mizzen. Same position as the current light air staysail I have. In paper, in that position, most of the storm sail would be deployed forward of midships, so the CE would would not move a huge amount. In paper! :roll:
I have wishbone booms, so the manoeuvre will involve lowering the main boom as much as possible out of the way and securing the boom clew to one side, then attaching the mizzen forestay, and then hoisting the storm sail on that forestay.

Thanks for your input!
Rafael
s/v Nausikaa
SSR 30570, sail GBR 4619L
F30 CK (Hoyt), wishbones, centreboard, G10 rig. Built by Fairways Marine, Humble, UK, '82
Beta 16 hp with two-blade prop
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby seadago » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:46 pm

Castaway wrote:We have a strongly built blade staysail, which can be set from the mizzen to a hard eye on the coachroof, and supported by a running backstay. We use it on long reaches, but have never tried it in heavy weather.

When we have been at sea in a gale, we lay hove-to with only the foot of the main set (the bit below the wishbone), the traveller hauled to windward, and fore-reached 5nm in about 8 hours. It was less violent than the motion when we were sailing, though still not very comfortable, but this was due to the confused sea with wind across current, not just the wind strength. The PO said he just lay a-hull under bare poles, or else streamed long warps astern, but this was with mid-Atlantic sea room.


Hi Gerald. Thanks. Yes, that's the position I was thinking of. I only have a light air staysail which came with the boat (and which I never used; pain in the proverbial to deploy!). I would be a bit nervous to hove-to or lay ahull unless I have lots and lots of room, but then again, never tried in a real hard blow, only as a manoeuvre test. The thick masts, wishbones and sails, create a lot of windage on my boat. Maybe bare poles would suffice.

Thanks!
Rafael
s/v Nausikaa
SSR 30570, sail GBR 4619L
F30 CK (Hoyt), wishbones, centreboard, G10 rig. Built by Fairways Marine, Humble, UK, '82
Beta 16 hp with two-blade prop
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby peaceandfreedom » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:56 pm

Here is a pic of my storm sail attached to the main mast. The sail is hanked around the mast. In your case with the wishbone boom, the control lines for the boom may be in the way for this setup.

Happy sailing,
Jim D.
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storm sail.jpg
storm sail.jpg (188.71 KiB) Viewed 1482 times
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Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby seadago » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:59 pm

peaceandfreedom wrote:Here is a pic of my storm sail attached to the main mast. The sail is hanked around the mast. In your case with the wishbone boom, the control lines for the boom may be in the way for this setup.

Happy sailing,
Jim D.


Gotcha! I've seen this design commercially to fit over a furled up jib or genoa. Neat...
Rafael
s/v Nausikaa
SSR 30570, sail GBR 4619L
F30 CK (Hoyt), wishbones, centreboard, G10 rig. Built by Fairways Marine, Humble, UK, '82
Beta 16 hp with two-blade prop
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seadago
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:42 am
Location: Lowestoft, England

Re: storm sail on a F30 CK?

Postby Castaway » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:35 am

peaceandfreedom wrote:-
Here is a pic of my storm sail attached to the main mast. The sail is hanked around the mast. In your case with the wishbone boom, the control lines for the boom may be in the way for this setup.

Happy sailing,
Jim D.


That trysail is rather impressive, Jim. I see no reason why it couldn't be used with the wishbone boom, as the boom uphaul is on the aft side of the mast.

This is the only picture I have showing our blade stays'l set. It is about 2m from tack to clew, and 9m luff. This is a picture of the owner, rather than the sail!. Castaway came with four strengthened pad eyes on the coach roof to which the small and medium stays'ls can be set; we never use the medium one (which my daughter christened the 'sh*tsail'). The big cruising chute is tacked down to the toe rail right forward.

We always use a running backstay from the masthead, opposite the halyard, with any stays'l. The PO told us that he once had the block on this break, in an acceleration zone between the Canary Islands; the mast bent alarmingly until he could release the sheet, but it didn't break.

I have sailed with just the cruising chute, and the boat handled normally on the helm, but never with just the small stays'l.

Gerald
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staysl.jpg
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Gerald Freshwater,
s/y 'Castaway', (UK F35 cat ketch, centreboard, 1987)
Lerwick Boating Club
Shetland Isles, Scotland
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