Port windows F32

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Tmack
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Rye NH USA

Port windows F32

Post by Tmack »

Hi,

Is this the typical port window setup, '84 F32? Simply, plexiglass attached with butlyl tape and 6-7 screws? The tape is completely hardened. Looking for tips on replacement strategy. I pulled 2 windows for size and will replace all once I have replacements. One window had a small leak (leading corner in photo, I assume) and half of them were too hazed to see out of.

Tips, or links, on plexiglass type and source and butlyl tape appreciated.

Thanks. Tom
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Tom
F32 "TnT" Hull #11
Rye NH USA

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mike cunningham
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Port windows F32

Post by mike cunningham »

That looks like a bit of a mess. But you have a perfect opportunity for a beautiful replacement job. Can you show us a pic of what this looks like on the inside of the boat? There seems to be quite a bit of open space between screws so that might be something to think about. Hopefully this area is not cored. It is not on the Freedom 30 (mull).

In my personal opinion you should not even consider silicone or 5200 for this job. You have mechanical fasteners to hold the port to the boat. That is a butyl job if there ever was one. Think really hard about how to protect from water ingress around the screws, you really have to be methodical. PM me if you want some ideas.

The one thing that is priceless about butyl is that if you screw up, you can disassemble and try again. It sucks but it is not utter torture like it would be if you used silicone or 5200.

edit: if you use butyl you will get some squeeze out. Deal with this by razoring it off with something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Scraper- ... ljaz10cnVl
or this

https://www.amazon.com/Lil-Chizler-Viny ... 279&sr=8-2

The other nice thing about bed it butyl is that you can clean up with mineral spirit. Nothing fancy needed.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

Tmack
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Rye NH USA

Re: Port windows F32

Post by Tmack »

Mike,

I appreciate the reply. Here's the view from the inside, same port. There is no frame or anything on the inside, just plexi attached on the outside as shown. I have seen other posts mentioning a frame which got me wondering about these. This setup appeared to work, and only leaked at the one window, so I am assuming that cleaned up with new seals it will be fine. But I'd love to hear from others on this.

This was the worse port window of course. The others are neat with no leaking but they are all aged so there's no sense in redoing just one.

Thanks. Tom

ps. thanks for the additional info on your recent post. Very helpful!
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Tom
F32 "TnT" Hull #11
Rye NH USA

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mike cunningham
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Port windows F32

Post by mike cunningham »

Tom, on my 30 and I think this is common, there is an aluminum trim ring around the interior of the fixed portlights. Machine screws are inserted into this ring and screw into an exterior frame which bears down on the window as the interior screws are tightened. In our case the frame is a somewhat complex profile so a nice clean exterior moulding is presented to the outside world.

Having said this, I kind of like the exterior screws and bare bones appearance of your ports because you can see everything. If there is a leak, it is relatively easy to troubleshoot. I have had leaks that present themselves at the end of a long piece of trim in the main cabin..."where the hell is that coming from?" is my usual refrain. The answer has been either from a fixed portlight or a leaking through bolt in the cabin top. I kid you not. Water leaks can drip behind our interior teak cladding and go every which where. So consider yourself lucky.

How are the exterior screws seated? Are threaded holes tapped in the FG or are there some sort of tapped inserts? I assume whatever method is used it is pretty secure? Assuming no through bolting, good screw security and no exposed core, this is really good and simple IMO. The only way water can get in is through the window to cabin seal or a broken window. If you do a nice clean job, I have found you can actually inspect the seal through even tinted windows using a strong LED flashlight. This allows you to do a spray test with the hose (using a strong spray handle directed at the seals) and then wipe the window down and inspect for any areas where water may have gotten into the gap between window and boat. Most times this can be fixed by simply scootching up the screws a bit esp. if you are using butyl which will compress as you apply additional squeezing. If you trim the squeeze out and don't use any goop like silicone, etc. your ports are going to look really sweet. Don't go crazy with the tightening.

In summary, I would not consider frames unless the screw security is questionable.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

weirdofreedom
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:20 pm

Re: Port windows F32

Post by weirdofreedom »

Freedom I’ve been using the last couple years had windows that were leaking. I watched the yard tech reseal them using tape and silicone. I can’t recall the exact brand names or make. They were different than what you have. There was basically a lip the window sat in recessed and flush with the cabin exterior. No screws at all. Didn’t leak the rest of the season. Been looking at how to replace the glass myself and how to add a metal trim on the exterior to give it a cleaner look.

Looking forward to tracking your progress.

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RadioZephyr
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:04 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Port windows F32

Post by RadioZephyr »

I think the tape that’s used is 3M VHB, which stands for “very high bond.” Then silicone fills in the gap around the glass on the outside.
Josh
Sunset Spy
F38, Hull #152
Boston, MA

Tmack
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Rye NH USA

Re: Port windows F32

Post by Tmack »

Zepher yes I'm wondering if it needs a bonding tape as you mention. I can't tell what the original was because it is now hardened but it is obviously stuck on. With the plexiglas and no frame I can't tighten down on those screws much at all, the plexi will crack. The screws were certainly not in tight. Decisions...
Tom
F32 "TnT" Hull #11
Rye NH USA

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mike cunningham
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Port windows F32

Post by mike cunningham »

Tmack wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:29 am
Zepher yes I'm wondering if it needs a bonding tape as you mention. I can't tell what the original was because it is now hardened but it is obviously stuck on. With the plexiglas and no frame I can't tighten down on those screws much at all, the plexi will crack. The screws were certainly not in tight. Decisions...
That may be why Freedom went to the frame approach. On my portlights the glass and the cabin side are securely compressed together between the external and internal frames.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

Tricia
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:59 pm

Re: Port windows F32

Post by Tricia »

I had a similar situation on my F25. I used Dow Corning 795 structural silicone, and screws with oversized holes and washers at either end of the unframed Plexiglas windows to hold the curve until the silicone had cured. Acrylic expands and contracts a lot, so it's important for the screw holes to be oversized. The DC795 held well for all the years I owned the boat. It's inexpensive, and while messy, easy to use. Oh, and I placed a few small plastic washers between the acrylic and the window recess so I didn't squish out all the bedding. Hope that helps.

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JohnReinagel
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 1:44 pm
Location: Suburb of Buffalo, N.Y.

Re: Port windows F32

Post by JohnReinagel »

Tom, I had wondered the same thing about my '84 32 as it has the same mounting as yours, no framing at all and only screws holding the windows. I too have replacing windows on my to do list and mine were supposedly replaced not too long prior to my purchase except almost all of them leak to due stress cracks which formed shortly prior to me obtaining her. I had considered making a recess for the windows but without knowing the internal structure around them I would hesitate to remove material. If you would be so kind as to let me know if you are able to confirm if this area is cored or all fiberglass, I would appreciate it. Good luck, would love to see pictures when completed.
John


1984 Hoyt F32
Hull #53

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