Main sail handling on F30

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mike cunningham
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Main sail handling on F30

Post by mike cunningham »

Probably a stupid question but here goes.

When I am out sailing in higher winds, gusting to 20 or above I will try to hang in on a full main. (Mull 30)

Here in SF Bay you can go from 10 to 20 and back in a very short time. Sustained above 20 I will reef but don't want to hassle with it if i think the wind will back off a bit.

So, my problem, and question, has to do with the boat's tendency to round up from a deep reach or run when she has the full main up and is hit by a gust which might be sustained for several minutes.

I would normally just Portuguese reef during the gust, but we'll off the wind, this is not possible..

I have tried letting the main way out, way in and tried various jib trims to no avail. Of course I could reef but that is a huge hassle when you are dealing with a windward mark during a race and are unable to bring the boat down and get off the wind without a reef.

Anyone have any recommendations?
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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newt2u
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Location: UK

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by newt2u »

No recommendations as such but just a comment on the mechanics of the situation. The force from the sail is acting at a point somewhere in the middle of the sail, probably a bit less that half way from the mast. If you think about it, this force is giving you a rotational moment about the centre of gravity of the boat, causing you to round up or at least requiring a bit of lee helm to control it. You seem to have tried the obvious, i.e. sheet out/sheet in. Depending on how far off the wind you are sheeting out can increase the moment and sheeting in can increase the heeling moment. On a dinghy you can heel the boat to windward to get the force acting more over the centre of the boat but I don't think you are going to be able to do that on your F30. :D

When teaching my son to sail I had to tell him that to bear away he needed to ease the sheets first, which in fact will often bear you away with very little rudder input. You can't fight the physics!
Last edited by newt2u on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

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newt2u
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Location: UK

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by newt2u »

P.s. what is a Portuguese reef, I haven't come across the term before.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

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Camino
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Location: Stockton, CA

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by Camino »

Hi Mike - I know we have different boats - Mull 30 vs P 35- downwind/ deep reaching and gusting and feeling that strong pull from the rudder, I can blow the kicker and avoid the roundup, then reapply the vang. Does that work?

Btw- right now I’m enjoying that diesel heater :D
Tom and Stephanie
Good Way II F 35 (P)
1999. Wing Keel 5’
3GM30F, 3-blade maxi prop
Emery Cove, CA

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mike cunningham
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by mike cunningham »

newt2u wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:25 am
P.s. what is a Portuguese reef, I haven't come across the term before.
I inherited the term from Delta sailors who do a lot of sailing in narrow channels. In order to avoid a reef in tight quarters we will ease the traveler and sheet to slightly luff and depower the sail. There are probably other terms, just a lot of Portuguese heritage here on the Cali Delta thus the eponymous name?? I don't know.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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mike cunningham
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by mike cunningham »

newt2u wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:23 am
No recommendations as such but just a comment on the mechanics of the situation. The force from the sail is acting at a point somewhere in the middle of the sail, probably a bit less that half way from the mast. If you think about it, this force is giving you a rotational moment about the centre of gravity of the boat, causing you to round up or at least requiring a bit of lee helm to control it. You seem to have tried the obvious, i.e. sheet out/sheet in. Depending on how far off the wind you are sheeting out can increase the moment and sheeting in can increase the heeling moment. On a dinghy you can heel the boat to windward to get the force acting more over the centre of the boat but I don't think you are going to be able to do that on your F30. :D

When teaching my son to sail I had to tell him that to bear away he needed to ease the sheets first, which in fact will often bear you away with very little rudder input. You can't fight the physics!
Yes, and this situation not helped by our big main and mast forward layout.

Sounds like a reef may be the only way.

This is particularly annoying as I enter SF Bay from points west. There is a big uptick in wind speed as you approach the Gate. It often drops back off as you get into the slot, esp earlier in the day when the slot itself isn't blowing 25Kts...yet. Of course the wind is right behind you so I guess it is going to have to be - reef, get through the Gate and then shake it back out.

What a pain.

I need a new main so perhaps my sailmaker can tweak the cut a bit to partly deal with the pesky physics.

Follow up question. Anyone perfected downwind reefing? I did it a few times on the way to Hawaii but I always felt like I was going to pull the bolts out of....something. A ot of strain on mamy parts.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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newt2u
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: Main sail handling on F30

Post by newt2u »

Mike, just an additional thought. It might help if you try sailing by the lee, i.e. bring the boom across so the flow is from leech to luff across the sail. However, as you are overpowered it might be tricky and I'm not sure I'd want to do that without a pretty sturdy preventer to avoid the gybe.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

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