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Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:21 pm
by Michel
If you use this ingenious velcro-like system, make sure you allow for the extra thickness it adds to the headliner. And you might end up with problematic connections around the hatch trim and at the bulkheads because of the greater width. I used a simple staple gun to attach the headliner temporarily. Staples can be removed with a small screwdriver if I have to remove the board. Trim battens cover the staples and seams. Of course you can't use this approach if you have trimless headliners.
You might perhaps want to check Steve Dashew's Sailing Encyclopedia about headliner systems. He describes several attachment systems.
Here you see the pieces of foamed pvc fastened temporarily with staples. As you see, you don't need a whole lot of staples, maybe 6 or 8 per sheet.

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:27 pm
by THATBOATGUY
I'm probably going to come up with an amalgamated plan base on this thread... heh heh One I completely agree on is that the glue on the industrial velcro is the weak link. I always glue it with west system. The west system does not interact poorly with the glue that's already on there and I get a very strong bond that has longevity. The trim around our hatches is solid teak that screwed up. I wouldn't change that no matter the headliner so that trim would have to come down in any case. I'm really starting to lean towards Michel's more simple staples... how often am I really going to want to take down the headliner anyway?

George

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:59 pm
by rweeks6508
Michael
the foamed PVC sheets that you used.. are they like:

http://www.rplastics.com/komatex.html

Bob

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:31 pm
by Castaway
refit2.jpg
Lynda cleans up
refit2.jpg (48.99 KiB) Viewed 5012 times
We recently replaced most of the lining of Castaway, using hand spread solvent based contact adhesive on hard surfaces, and a spray can version of the same product on foam backed vinyl. We considered the risk associated with the VOC's and after checking the data sheets, decided that using good quality passive respirators and short duration work schedules would cause no permanent harm, and minimal short term effect. Ventilation was a breeze (windiest place in the UK), since the boat was outdoors, and the low ambient temperatures meant a slow rate of VOC evaporation. We are both occupational health professionals, so this was not just a 'cross your fingers and hope for the best' assessment.

The real difficulties of the job revolved around two adults wearing PPE and head torches handling large, tacky sheets of vinyl in the forepeak, without becoming bonded to the boat. Even more difficult was cleaning off all the old adhesive and foam debris before starting with the new stuff; the dust was non-toxic so long as the sanders and grinder didn't overheat the foam and polyester resin, but there were huge clouds of it despite using a vacuum extractor on the sanders. The clean-up took a week.

I suspect that the decreased risk of using water based adhesive is actually very slight, if you follow the precautions above, and space out the interior work. We had to fit it in around other projects (like earning a living), so the short exposures were forced on us. If you are on a tighter schedule, then some temporary mechanical ventilation through a port light or hatch should keep the VOC levels down to a safe limit, and a good quality mask rated for organic fumes will deal with the rest. I think you will find it very hard to apply adequate quantities of adhesive using a spray gun, even of the HVLP type, without coating too much of the surroundings as well, especially when doing the insides of lockers, etc.

Good luck, anyway,

Gerald

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:35 am
by GeoffSchultz
I'm getting ready to attach my Naugahyde headliner material to the 1/8" plywood forms, and was wondering the best way to do it. I was thinking about doing the following:

  • spay the Naugahyde and plywood in a separate location
  • pin the Naugahyde to a 4x8' sheet of regular plywood to get it taut and wrinkle free
  • place some separator strips on the Naugahyde
  • position the plywood above it
  • remove the separator strips
  • roll it out

I was thinking of doing it this was because the plywood is more rigid and it would be easier to keep it away from the Naugahyde than the reverse. Any suggestions?

-- Geoff (where we've got 10"+ of fresh snow on the ground and it's snowing to beat the band)

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:42 pm
by Michel
Why go for the old fashioned method of fabric on plywood? It's twice the amount of work compared to one piece headliner like foamed PVC. And plywood will give you trouble with leaks and moisture.

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:44 pm
by Michel
rweeks6508 wrote:Michael
the foamed PVC sheets that you used.. are they like:

http://www.rplastics.com/komatex.html

Bob


Yes Bob, I recall the brand name Sintra as one being used in the USA for this stuff. Sorry for the delayed reply; I must have missed your question.

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:34 pm
by GeoffSchultz
Why go for the old fashioned method of fabric on plywood? It's twice the amount of work compared to one piece headliner like foamed PVC. And plywood will give you trouble with leaks and moisture.

  1. Because the Komatex sheets only come in size up to 2x4' and many of the existing panels are munch larger than that. I don't want more seams.
  2. Most of the existing plywood sheets were in fine condition and there's no reason to remake them.
  3. Finally, and probably most importantly, due to fact that it was going to be a massive job to remove some of the existing material, I left in in place the the Naugahyde matches it very closely.

-- Geoff

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:57 am
by GeoffSchultz
I just wanted to provide an update on this project. I'm in the process of installing the recovered panels and am quite happy with the results. However, I can tell you that there are reasons for using a foam backed headliner material. Without foam, you see every imperfection in the plywood form. I started to obsess over this, but then realized that I won't be staring at the headliner when I'm in the boat in the same manner that I was doing as I was manufacturing them.

The procedure that I outlined a few posts earlier worked well. I found that using a staple gun to attach the Naugahyde to the plywood "table" worked best as it allowed me to stretch the fabric much more than I can do using push pins.

I was very happy with the 3M water based FastBond adhesive. I sprayed it using an HVLP sprayer and a 2 MM tip, and it worked great. Absolutely no VOHCs, which was important due to the enclosed space where I was spraying.

I'll post pictures when I'm done.

-- Geoff

Re: Headliner Material & Adhesive

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:57 pm
by nrags
Pictures??? Now I'm stuck doing the headliner thing. Any new ideas out there???

Norm
SV Nikos
F36