Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

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mike cunningham
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by mike cunningham »

Thanks everybody. OK it's at the TOP of the list now. All I have to do is remember which list it's at the top of.

I'm ordering a solenoid today!
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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mike cunningham
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by mike cunningham »

jdpandlp wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:53 am
You did not mention the type of engine but I had the same issue on a Yanmar. Tracked the problem to not enough amperage to starter when it was hot. The next time it happens jump the battery connection on the starter to the solenoid, if it turns over you have the issue identified. I wired a NAPA marine solenoid in the starter circuit from the key switch. This worked for two decades until the aftermarket starters for my 4JHE became cheaper than rebuilding the original. Since changing the starter I have not had the issue.
I have been waiting for a very long time for a response like this. The type of engine is listed in my signature line... so there. Ha ha ha.

Just joking of course, thanks for identifying the type of solenoid. Placed on order today.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

AlJacobs
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by AlJacobs »

Mike

I had the same problem for a year. I change starter, cables. Finally the STOP solenoid. That was the problem all along.

Al

AlJacobs
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by AlJacobs »

I had same problem. It turned out to be a bad STOP Relay in the engine compartment.

AlJacobs
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by AlJacobs »

I misspoke earlier. I meant relay, not solenoid.

BillSmith
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 7:56 am
Location: San Mateo, CA

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by BillSmith »

UPDATE-

Had mechanic, Tony-Franco Marine-visit today. Impulse starter button on cockpit the culprit. Could not diagnose the issue, as it always started when in slip. After finally failing permanently, easy to pop panel and ascertain it was button, not starter relay. Whew. A lot less to fix, time and money.

We will sail tomorrow and hope new part continues to fire up the old diesel.
Bill & Carole Smith
Freedom 35 Pedrick
SweeTART
Coyote Point
San Mateo, CA

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mike cunningham
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by mike cunningham »

I prioritized my list!

I think I have the start button problem fixed!

Background (you know there always is one when I am posting)

I had experience start button problems for years. Pretty much blew it off because I could always get a start, just took multiple pushes, annoying but tolerable although, back of mind, I was always wondering, will it eventually bite me?

When I sailed the boat back from Hawaii, I did a lot of motoring. During one session not only would the engine not start, none of the panel electrics seemed to be working. I removed the cockpit panel mid Pacific and began troubleshooting. During that episode I found jiggling the harness connectors both ends seemed to magically fix the problem. So once I was back in business I just left everything alone for fear I would screw something up hard core while 1000 miles offshore. The issue of connectors went on the list and was quickly forgotten once back on terra firma. The start button continued to do what it always did which was not work most of the time.

So I was addressing the start button issue with this larger harness connector situation in mind. All of us with original Yanmars in an F30 will have a 3 meter extension harness between engine and control panel (Type B panel) in the cockpit. The two connectors on both ends of this extension are vulnerable to corrosion, maltreatment and wat not. As I reviewed this wiring seriously for the first time, I realized the connectors were redundant and were simply a failure waiting to happen. I also realize a lot of people have been down this path before me.

I noted the white wire in the harness extension - this is the wire carrying current to the starter solenoid from the push button - was near twice the AWG of the wire which went from the extension connector to the button at the panel and the same from the engine side connector to the solenoid. So you have a small conductor at panel connected to a large conductor in extension cable then back to a small conductor at engine side, add a couple of marginal connectors in the middle and I thought, this might be my problem.

Given the above, my experience at sea and comments on this board, I decided to eliminate all the connectors and replace them with shrink sealing butt joints. I also decided to replace the small 14 AWG white start button wire on the panel end with 10 AWG wire identical to the size of the cable in the harness extension. I did not alter the engine side wire which is about a foot long. I figured I would give this easy fix a try before going to a supplemental solenoid.

After getting all this done, I began testing day before yesterday. So far I have done five starts, two seperate days, single push, no issues. Looking good! Going to do some final tests today and, if OK, will button up and re-seal the panel. Other than my Wife calling a divorce lawyer, it was happy days are here again.

The other caution is when you do an electrical mod, update your schematics and electrical drawings. I installed a Balmar alternator /regulator years ago, also installed an analog engine temp meter in the cockpit. I did not document these changes and spent several hours trying to sort out how the related wiring changes impacted the function of panel lights, in particular the charge lamp. I also spent some quality time refreshing my knowledge of how the panel worked with respect to the supplemental momentary switch to test the the CW lamp. Got that sorted eventually but shame on me for not documenting this when mods were originally installed. Would have saved me a lot of aggravation.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

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jamesorr
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Location: Rochester, NY
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Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by jamesorr »

Certainly a good thread to keep in mind. I very occasionally see a similar problem, although I was kind of leaning towards it being a switch problem (or someone not pushing it in sufficiently). As my boat is only in the water 6 months or so (and fresh water at that), I suspect any corrosion related issues might be there -- but would certainly be minimized. Good ideas to put on the list however :-).

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mike cunningham
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by mike cunningham »

jamesorr wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:24 am
Certainly a good thread to keep in mind. I very occasionally see a similar problem, although I was kind of leaning towards it being a switch problem (or someone not pushing it in sufficiently). As my boat is only in the water 6 months or so (and fresh water at that), I suspect any corrosion related issues might be there -- but would certainly be minimized. Good ideas to put on the list however :-).
With regard to the extension harness, The connectors on either end are push to connect with no locking mechanism such as one might find in an automobile connector. There are rubber boots around the connector which sort of hold it together but certainly not as securely as a locking mechanism. It is relatively easy to pull them apart. Given one end of the harness is literally inside or very near the engine compartment it seems to me to be be a pretty flakey set up. I just never bothered to dig into the harness before so was not aware.

Unless you run into a panel electrical issue where the problem is obvious, I would be checking theses connectors up near the top of the troubleshooting list. There are ten conductors to worry about.

And of course the things are hard to get to on both ends. Cockpit end it is jammed behind the panel in the tight space between propane box and cockpit wall. The panel has to come out to get at these connectors properly. Engine end they are just behind the aftermost port motor mount (on my boat) jammed up against the bulkhead behind the exhaust hose. What a joy it was to get the all this wiring butt connected.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

Richard Abbinanti
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:41 am

Re: Start button - I swear I'll fix it this time

Post by Richard Abbinanti »

Ok. I have read all post. This is what happen to me today. I was motoring to have my 36 ft freedom taken out of the water. It took about a 2 hour trip. I stopped to by Diesel.
I turned the key and push in the bottom. No start. I tried this over and over. 10 to 15 minutes later while waiting for the mechanic. I tried it again and started.
How can I fix this what should I look for.
Looking for help.
Richard

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