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Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:08 am
by seadago
Comment to question 5. My sails have a fairly large foot, so I have little room to tension the outhawl. With maximum tension I dare to apply, the attachment knot on the outhawl is right on the block. I have perhaps a foot and half to play with overall. This has been sufficient to trim so far. If you allow for more room, you will have to fix the boom further aft wrt the mast, and you'll find it interferes with the mizzen mast lines when it swings.

General comment, based only on my experience (every boat is different!!) Is: keep things simple and flexible in the design, so you can adjust and fine tune. You can only do so much in paper, then you need to trial in different conditions.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:06 pm
by Sailing-61-North
Rafael,

Thanks for the reply. I pulled all of the running rigging last night (Beyond Old) and was looking at the wishbone.

How far forward (space between the mast/boom) do you usually keep? Thanks for the info regarding the foot. I can see what you are talking about. With the addition of single ply sail do you use the stock boom lashing or a collar and are you using the forward spare haylard to raise the boom on that end..? This configuration, better yet this type of setting the sail, is new to me so I am sure I will have questions.

Depending on available OT I hope to work with a sail maker in British Columbia this fall. I really am not in a hurry for that portion of the fix. It will be next summer yet I am trying to gather all info and formulate a game plan.

PS. Next time you are out could you snap a photo.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:45 pm
by Sailing-61-North
Hi Rafael,

I hope you don't mind me picking your brain with a few more question. When I got the boat the sails were given to me via from the trunk of his car. I have downloaded various documents from this site which has helped with the explanation of the running rigging. I also downloaded Gio PowerPoint presentation and read it over a few times. So here it goes.

1. I see in Gios PPT that he has a line (Dynema) running the entire length enclosed in the luff. He described it as a "Stay". Is this separated from the main halyard? The original on my boat had two lines through a double block. If I have it right these were used to raise/lower the wishbone? Or were they the main haylard attached to both layers of sails. Sorry but I was handed a mess and this setup (rigging) is somewhat foreign to me.
2. With the G-10 is the front spare halyard used to raise the wishbone?
3. If so what keeps the wishbone keeper interfering with the lashing.

One of the documents I am looking at is for a Freedom 30 so maybe it's different. Do you have any sketches of the running rigging. I am working on sails and all new running rigging but I want to get this figured out before ordering.

I have no desire to install a track due to logistic of being in remote alaska. Did you follow the recommendation as shown in the powerpoint?

Thanks

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:26 pm
by seadago
Hi
In setting up my rig, I based myself on Gio's design but did not follow to the letter. I applied the concept with modifications that I thought better suited me and my particular boat. Wether this was a good idea or not is still under debate! Examples:
1) my booms were hanging from a ring half way up the mast. I thought this did interfere with the lacing line of my sails, going up and down the mast. I got rid of the ring and installed a steel cable from the top of the mast on the forward side. This cable is about two fights the length of the mast. From this cable I hanged the purchase for the boom haliard. In summary, my booms hang now from the top of the mast with the purchase on the forward side.
2) I also had a double block for the sail haliard. I kept the double block, but use only one sheave for the haliard. On the other I have a spare line to use as a haliard in case the other fails.
3) I did not understand Gio's concept of the dyaneema line in the luff of the sail. When I had my sails made, I asked for a very thick and strong nylon line to be sewn inside the luff. This line is longer that the luff by two feet at the foot. At the end of this luff line I made a splice. When the sail is almost up, I attach the luff line to one of the mast rings at the base of the mast, and then tension the haliard. Weight of the sail, plus a little tension, plus the lacing line keep the luff straight without bulging with the wind. Same concept as Gio's, different execution of it.
4) over the years that I have owned Nausikaa I've made many modifications to the rigging, tried some that worked and some that didn't. You"ll have to experiment and do your own thing suiting your experience and preferences.
I'll try to post some pics later.
Hope this helps!

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:59 am
by Sailing-61-North
Thanks for the info. As mentioned I will need to experiment with it once I have the sails made.

For a better lack of verbiage is the sewn luff line attached to the headboard?

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:37 am
by seadago
No, but I don't have a conventional headboard.
My sails have as rings on the head and clew, attached with radial webbing straps. Still, the luff chord is not attached to the head ring.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:28 am
by andygc
Sailing-61-North wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:45 pm
The original on my boat had two lines through a double block. If I have it right these were used to raise/lower the wishbone? Or were they the main haylard attached to both layers of sails.

One of the documents I am looking at is for a Freedom 30 so maybe it's different. Do you have any sketches of the running rigging.
The Freedom 28 and Freedom 30 cat ketches are the same boat, just built in different countries and marketed differently. There are several files on the site in "Manuals and Documentation", but you may already have found them. For starters, though, see viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12051

The normal halyard is a length of 10mm line folded in half, tied to a length of 12mm line. The 10mm line runs through a pair of blocks at the masthead, with the ends tied separately to the head cringles of the wrap-around sail. If you go over to the G10 you will, of course, need only a single line right through. The halyard for the wishbone is a tackle that attaches to an eye plate part way up the back of the mast. The lower attachment is a loop in the yoke strop, although I chose to fit a stainless ring in the middle of the strop - by the yoke strop I mean the double-ended line that sits around the back of the mast, passes through the holes in the sail and then ties on each side to the front of the wishbone. Attached to the same point (loop or ring) is the wishbone height limit strop, a length of 8mm line that sets the height of the wishbone. It's also the attachment for the leech reefing line tackle, which lies between the layers of the sail.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:40 pm
by Sailing-61-North
Seadago - is the "luff line" permanently attached to the top of the mast head?

Andygc - as you mentioned I have all of that on the 33. I haven't committed to original or G10 quite yet. Leaning towards the latter. As shown below I have a hand full of messenger lines in place. As mentioned, some of them can go away if G10.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:32 am
by seadago
Getting confused... The luff chord in my sails -and I believe in Gio's design - is a stiff, non-stretch line sewn inside the luff of the sail. The purpose is to provide rigidity to the luff so it will not bulge and bellow in the wind between the attachment points to the mast. It is a fixture of the sail and not an element of running rigging. I still hoist the sail with a normal haliard.

I had the same setup you have to hoist the boom. When I decided to change to single ply sails, I saw the pad eye on the mast would interfere with the lacing line of the sail, what Gio calls rakbanden. This line attaches the sail to the mast in a continuous spiral around the mast, and needs to slide smoothly up and down the mast. The pad eye holding the boom interfered with this. I got rid of it, and installed instead a length of ss wire attached to the plate at the mast top. This wire is about half the length of the mast; i.e. it extends more or less to the position of the pad eye on the mast, but on the forward side of it. At the bottom of this wire I put the block for the purchase of the boom haliard. Result: it works exactly the same way as in the original rigging, but with boom haliard running on the forward side of the mast instead the aft side of it.
My sails do not have a head board. They have a ring at the head and clew, held by radial webbing straps; old fashioned way. I attach the haliard and outhawl to these rings. The luff chord is independent and not attached to the ring at the sail head.

Re: Is this a G10 rig?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:02 pm
by Sailing-61-North
Thanks Seadago. I think it was I that was confused. I was given a mess in regards to lines either missing or in a rat's nest. Sails were also given to me from the trunk (boot) of his car. Your description of the luff line being part of the sail make sense. Same for the forward boom haylard and removal of the pad eye. This wishbone setup is new to me so sorry for all the question.

And of course a few other questions. What spacing was utilized between the cringles (groments) on the luff of the sail for the lacing? Did you go with a fixed chocker ( I hope I have the terminology correct) or a adjustable one similar to the setup on a Nonsuch?

Thanks for the information. Just trying to get my ducks in a row before getting sails made (Fall). Heck I have plenty of other fun stuff like grinding fiberglass and replacing core before winter raises it's head.