Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

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newt2u
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by newt2u »

Another light wind spinnaker day yesterday. We had it up for 75% of the sailing. We beat a boat twice our size out to open water from the lock, about 6nm by a considerable amount. I find it works best off the wind by about 20 degrees even if you have to sail a longer course. I managed to raise it on a beam reach single handed while my son was playing games on his phone. We made 3knts in just over 4 knts of wind, which I found impressive. A joy to sail.

My only issue is sometimes on retrieval the halliard knot gets caught on the pullpit and I have to go forward. I think I need a roller or some kind of shute.
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Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

hkowalczyk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by hkowalczyk »

I was feeling left out so had to go out and fly the spinnaker today :D
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hkowalczyk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by hkowalczyk »

Ian,

I just noticed you're missing two lines that move the yard in and out. Not absolutely necessary but nice to have.

Look here to see how you run them

https://web.archive.org/web/20170207203 ... ission.pdf

Looks like you don't have the ring in the stainless steel tube section where the 2 blocks attach. Look at my pictures on page 1 and you should see the blocks clearly for the red (left) and blue (right) lines. You can also see how they tie off at the ends.

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newt2u
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by newt2u »

In my earlier post My only issue is sometimes on retrieval the halliard knot gets caught on the pullpit and I have to go forward. I think I need a roller or some kind of shute. I should have said the retrieval line not halliard.And I have a question about that.

Ian I could not see your line but hkowalczyk, it seems yours is forward of the spinnaker as is mine. I was wondering if this is correct? I rigged it this way as each tack is colour coded red/green and if I use this as port/starboard, it leaves the attachment point forward but it seems this makes for an untidy retrieval when the knot goes over the pulpit.

I have some more video of flying the spinnaker, I'll try to post in the other thread once I've edited it down a bit.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

iansan5653
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 4:39 pm

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by iansan5653 »

Looking great! I love how all the spinnakers have different patterns.

new2u, you have my dream cockpit. The dodger, the instruments, the clutches, the winches, and those rope organizers all look amazing. What winches are those? Mine are old Barients with composite bases that are on their last legs - I've had to shim out some of the broken plastic with metal tape to get them to work.
My only issue is sometimes on retrieval the halliard knot gets caught on the pullpit and I have to go forward. I think I need a roller or some kind of shute.
I'm assuming you're talking about the knot that ties the retrieval line to the sail:

Originally I had my retrieval line as just the halyard tied off to the spinnaker in a big loop, but I found that the halyard is too heavy for that - the knot is pretty bulky and it can weigh down the middle of the sail too. Instead I've used a very small-diameter length of Dyneema (7/64" Samson AmSteel Blue) that I had leftover from my lifeline project for the retrieval line. It's certainly overkill for strength, but it's very slippery and lightweight. At this diameter it's only $0.25/ft. It's very easy to splice, so I added small loops in each end. On the sail side, I have it cow hitched to the loop in the middle of the sail so the knot becomes almost invisible. You can see it in the bottom of the picture I posted of the sock before I lengthened it (second page of this thread).
I just noticed you're missing two lines that move the yard in and out. Not absolutely necessary but nice to have.
I actually do have these lines, but I put mine on the outside so you can't see them. I thought that this might reduce the chances of anything getting caught on them. I'm not really sure what the best way is but this seems to work alright.
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Side note: I made a mistake making the clue lines and the pole lines the same colors. It's very confusing.
Ian I could not see your line but hkowalczyk, it seems yours is forward of the spinnaker as is mine.
This was something that confused me as well, but I guess it must have been an intentional design decision. It seems as though you'd want the line to attach to the inside of the kite to collapse it as you pull it, but mine does attach to the outside as well. Maybe that helps the sail to fill better when setting it?
Ian Sanders
1983 Freedom 21 - Shoal Draft
St Petersburg (Tampa Bay), FL

hkowalczyk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by hkowalczyk »

new2u , I actually asked the same question a while back.

https://freedomyachts.org/viewtopic.php ... 343#p47343

Not a big sample size, but it seems people do it both ways. Right now I have it running in the back. If you look at the video on youtube it seems like the line goes to the front. You can see it sneaking out of the spinnaker sock on the port side and then it seems to disappear behind the spinnaker.

https://youtu.be/Mx7bMnQgRoY?t=125

I think the most important part is to use lightweight rope. I use the core only.

Ian, that looks like a good setup. On mine I don't like the way the ring gets pulled forward by the spinnaker and back by the yard lines. It always seems to make it more difficult for the clew blocks to straighten out. I was going to just add an eyestrap to isolate the yard lines, but might give your setup a try. On yours they're both on the same side and seems like it would be better.

Looks like you have some bolt heads holding the inner sleeve? I used nylon countersink screws so nothing sticks out to catch the sail.

iansan5653
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 4:39 pm

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by iansan5653 »

I do think having the blocks forward of the gun mount helps things all pull the same direction and keeps the lines separated a bit. I looked through the old flyers and they just don't have enough resolution for me to say for certain, but it looks like they may have rigged it the way you did. Maybe there's better leverage putting them on the back? Not sure.

The inner sleeve mine came with was probably the original from 1983 - it was cracking and the snap-in pieces wouldn't hold on at all. I considered doing the PVC pipe method but I decided to overengineer it a little and used some plastic strips held in with nylon countersink machine screws; the screw heads are on the inside. What you see on the outside is the nylon cap nuts holding the screws in. They stick out a bit but they are round and plastic so I don't think anything will catch on them. That's one of a couple of projects I have pictures sitting around waiting for me to do a full writeup on when I have the time.
Ian Sanders
1983 Freedom 21 - Shoal Draft
St Petersburg (Tampa Bay), FL

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newt2u
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: Freedom 21 spinnaker sock/tube

Post by newt2u »

This thread has been vary useful. I will definitely have to get a new retrieval line. Mine is certainly larger than your 7/64" (3mm) probably 5mm and is relatively stiff, so the bowline I use is clunkey, and I suspect that will solve the issue, thanks. I may also try to reverse my mount next season to see how that works.

I am happy with the cockpit, although I do have to be more tidy than I am used to being with so many lines. I also have a single speed Barient on the port side, although it is in good condition. On the starboard, I have a Girdlestone 2 speed G16. There is a big difference between them, which I notice when raising my keels. As to the instruments, I find them invaluable, the duet was there when I bought her but I added the wind, which also feeds nmea to a raspberry pi running open plotter in the saloon.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

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