mast wedge help

User avatar
RadioZephyr
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:04 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: mast wedge help

Post by RadioZephyr »

What kind of boat is this? And where was it built?
Josh
Sunset Spy
F38, Hull #152
Boston, MA

User avatar
jamesorr
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:55 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Re: mast wedge help

Post by jamesorr »

mike cunningham wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:57 pm
jamesorr wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:36 am
As always, YMMV, however, on my boat with the traditional wedge, there is usually a gap where the two ends come together. My mast get pulled every year for inside storage, and the yard just uses a very large screwdriver where they insert it into the gap and then start prying up one of the ends -- and they have the wedge out faster than you can say "Bobs your uncle".
Although I don't come out every year, I have had my mast out five or six times and same deal as yours. Boatyard attaches crane to mast places it under load and I get below and tap the bottom of the wedge with a piece of wood and a rubber hammer. It usually pops out after a minute or two of pulling a prodding and (carefully) pounding. I don't use any lube but might try the Vaseline next time although a silicone grease might be a better choice? I don't know what material but it is sort of yellowish and is cut like yours. There is a one inch gap between the ends when the wedge is installed. I can imagine that being an issue and is one reason I suspect it may have been cast in a form versus in situ. Having said all of this, the wedge looks pretty indestructible is in excellent shape and I expect it will last for a good long time to come.

One other point, Someone mentioned mast creak. I suppose some noise could be coming from the partners but the real culprit (on my boat anyway) is the tophat arrangement at the heel of the mast. Unless the tophat diameter results in a good tight fit with the mast OD when the mast is stepped, you run the risk of the heel slipping a fraction of an inch under certain conditions. I my case this tends to take place off the wind in a good seaway. The mast does not gently slip either. As a result of the downward force of the mast on the tophat surround created by the weight of the mast combined with tensioned halyards, you get more of an earthquake like an instantaneous slip under load which leads to a loud bang worst case and a significant creak best case. I Had to deal with a LOUD "banging" mast on about 30 second intervals for days on end when sailing downwind offshore in 15 -20 Kts. It was horrible and kind of scary to be honest. The bang could be so loud I thought the mast was at risk. I plan to try to fix it (once again) next time I have the mast out.
Regarding the noise the mast makes while in a seaway, I had a similar experience on my boat, which I resolved by using some calipers to get an accurate measurement of the dimensions on the tophat, and then building up an epoxy layer on the inside of the mast. As I recall, I had to build it up a couple of 64/ths all around the inside bottom of the mast to the same height as the tophat. I made the "repair" probably 8 years or so ago, and have not noticed any equivalent noises since then.
James Orr
Orr What
1988 Freedom 32 (Mull)
Sodus Bay, NY

User avatar
mike cunningham
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Jacqueline, F30 #3, Discovery Bay, California

Re: mast wedge help

Post by mike cunningham »

The top hat issue has been discussed a number of times here and there have been very good suggestions how to fix incuding the epoxy or rubber shims.

Next time I have the mast out I am going to get serious about this problem.

Famous last words.
Mike Cunningham
Freedom 30 (Mull) Hull #3
Build date...June, 1986 . Freedom Yachts USA, sloop, shoal keel
Gun Mount and pole retrofitted (purchased from a Hoyt Freedom 32)
Yanmar 2gm20F , 1600 hrs fixed two blade prop
e-rud and ocean racing equipment

adam
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:46 pm

Re: mast wedge help

Post by adam »

some of the freedoms had the bottoms of the mast glued to the "tophat"/base and some did not evidently this was a factory option, if the mast wasn't glued to the base the joint develops wear starts to work and is the cause of that awful sound, Fortunately there is a very simple, inexpensive and long term solution . Using the hole in the base of the mast where the wires exit the mast and using a small rubber tube and funnel simply run unthickend epoxy onto the top of the top hat to the extent that it fills the gap between the mast and base, this was done to vaimana and lasted for 20 years with 0 movement solid as a rock , No releasing agent was used and when it finally became necessary to remove the mast it popped right off the top hat with very little persuasion. p.s. when you do the pour you will have to take some care it doesn't run out at the outside of the joint Total cost 20$ total time to fix 1 hour

TonyB
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California
Contact:

Re: mast wedge help

Post by TonyB »

I contacted West Systems asking about what resin/hardner combo would be best to fill the gaps between mast and hat but create a weak bond that could be removed at a later date. This is their response.

Hi Tony,
Using 105 resin and 205 hardener and with the surfaces not being prepared. Not sure how good of adhesion you would get in the first place. You could always use heat (160F or so) on the aluminum to soften the epoxy and get it to release.
Tony
SV Circe 1997 Freedom 40/40 - Hull #20 - Richmond Yacht Club, Richmond, CA

adam
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:46 pm

Re: mast wedge help

Post by adam »

the object here is to prevent the lateral movment of the mast at the base , not to "glue " it down even if you prepared both surfaces correctly to the einth degree you would not be able to keep it from breaking loose when pulled from above < think about it .... one 3/4 inch joint vs a 45 foot mast. that being said there is so much deritius inside the mast ie carbon dust, hailyard dust ect it provides a non sticking agent in itself

adam
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:46 pm

Re: mast wedge help

Post by adam »

just to form a spacer

TonyB
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California
Contact:

Re: mast wedge help

Post by TonyB »

That was my thought as well but decided to ask the experts about what combo or resin/hardener would cause the least amount of problems later.
Tony
SV Circe 1997 Freedom 40/40 - Hull #20 - Richmond Yacht Club, Richmond, CA

adam
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:46 pm

Re: mast wedge help

Post by adam »

doesn't matter what kind of epoxy, you are not gluing it you are only forming a spacer, we put quality masking tape at the underside of the joint to stop the epoxy from running out this was a mistake as the epoxy undercut the adhesive of the tape and so we ended up doing multiple light pours over a 4 day period this Worked out fine . suggest you do multiple light pours or find another way to dam the joint between the bottom of the mast and the tophat

adam
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:46 pm

Re: mast wedge help

Post by adam »

if you hold the wires out of the way you will be able to stick your finger in there and have a better understanding of the situation , we had a borescope but that is not absolutly nessassary.

Post Reply