1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure

Archives
1

Posted by lioneldmp7 (doug.payne@…>)

Having searched the archives, I only find one incident of rudder
failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of this year. I lost
my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and found it sheared off
right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark Edwards today, I
understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The rudder lies in 120
feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low, a diver can’t see
his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the rudder. Talked to the F
30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI,
generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a custom rudder, foam
blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but expensive solution. They
built the rudder from Freedom plans which the owner had to purchase
from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom might make one if
they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I have to talk to
Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said among other things
Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new ownership took over.

Have any of you had experience with Freedom building parts from
original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if that has been their
practice in the past.

Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30 owner said he really
wasn’t interested in doing this type work.

Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out
there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks or deterioration.
Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years ago, adjusted and
all was well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

2

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding? The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail one out of your boat… Fargo NARISA F30#12lioneldmp7 <doug.payne@…> wrote: Having searched the archives, I only find one incident of rudder failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of this year. I lost my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and found it sheared off right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark Edwards today, I understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The rudder lies in 120 feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low, a diver can’t see his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding
the rudder. Talked to the F 30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI, generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a custom rudder, foam blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but expensive solution. They built the rudder from Freedom plans which the owner had to purchase from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom might make one if they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I have to talk to Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said among other things Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new ownership took over. Have any of you had experience with Freedom building parts from original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if that has been their practice in the past. Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30 owner said he really wasn’t interested in doing this type work. Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out there might want to inspect
your shafts for cracks or deterioration. Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years ago, adjusted and all was well. Thanks in advance for your replies.

3

Posted by Dave Evans (dave@…>)

The F30 rudderstock always looked bigger than the F28’s. They were built in different TPI shops.
dge

----- Original Message -----
From: Fargo Rousseau
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] 1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure

Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding? The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail one out of your boat…

Fargo

NARISA F30#12lioneldmp7 <doug.payne@…> wrote:
Having searched the archives, I only find one incident of rudder failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of this year. I lost my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and found it sheared off right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark Edwards today, I understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The rudder lies in 120 feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low, a diver can’t see his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the rudder. Talked to the F 30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI, generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a custom rudder, foam blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but expensive solution. They built the rudder from Freedom plans which the owner had to purchase from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom might make one if they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I have to talk to Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said among other things Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new ownership took over. Have any of you had experience with Freedom building parts from original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if that has been their practice in the past. Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30 owner said he really wasn’t interested in doing this type work. Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks or deterioration. Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years ago, adjusted and all was well. Thanks in advance for your replies.

4

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Thanks dge for info on both issues. FargoDave Evans <dave@…> wrote: The F30 rudderstock always looked bigger than the F28’s. They were built in different TPI shops. dge ----- Original Message ----- From: Fargo Rousseau To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] 1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding? The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail one out of your boat… Fargo NARISA F30#12lioneldmp7 <doug.payne@…> wrote: Having searched the archives, I only find one incident of rudder failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in
August of this year. I lost my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and found it sheared off right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark Edwards today, I understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The rudder lies in 120 feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low, a diver can’t see his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the rudder. Talked to the F 30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI, generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a custom rudder, foam blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but expensive solution. They built the rudder from Freedom plans which the owner had to purchase from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom might make one if they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I have to talk to Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said among other things Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new ownership took over. Have any of you had experience with
Freedom building parts from original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if that has been their practice in the past. Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30 owner said he really wasn’t interested in doing this type work. Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks or deterioration. Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years ago, adjusted and all was well. Thanks in advance for your replies.

5

Posted by Payne, Doug (doug.payne@…>)


We will never know what really happened.
The blade is on the bottom of the lake. The “stump” at the point of
exit of the shaft from the hull has shreds of fiberglass cloth about 4 inches
long and shattered fractured glass resin. I have some pictures. It could have
been grounded at some time in its history, I will never know. We were sailing
in 14-16 knots apparent and our lake is prone to significant gusts. It was dusk,
the boat violently rounded up, I thought it was a gust because it felt like
one, however there are submerged islands in the area that are marked by buoys,
I didn’t notice a shudder from striking something, there could have been
one. Got the boat under control and had rudder control, sailed for 5 minutes,
tacked, sailed ten minutes the other way on a beam reach, all of a sudden
bammm, no rudder control, emergency tiller was inieffective, assume the blade
dropped off at that point. All very strange. .





From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo Rousseau
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005
7:44 PM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure

Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding?
The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this
size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail
one out of your boat…

\



Fargo

\



NARISA F30#12

lioneldmp7
<doug.payne@…> wrote:


Having searched the archives,
I only find one incident of rudder
failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of
this year. I lost
my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and
found it sheared off
right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark
Edwards today, I
understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The
rudder lies in 120
feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low,
a diver can’t see
his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the
rudder. Talked to the F
30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI,

generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a
custom rudder, foam
blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but
expensive solution. They
built the rudder from Freedom plans which the
owner had to purchase
from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom
might make one if
they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I
have to talk to
Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said
among other things
Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new
ownership took over.

Have any of you had experience with Freedom
building parts from
original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if
that has been their
practice in the past.

Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30
owner said he really
wasn’t interested in doing this type work.

Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms?
You 28 owners out
there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks
or deterioration.
Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years
ago, adjusted and
all was well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.




\

6

Posted by Payne, Doug (doug.payne@…>)


Yes, understand the 30 has a tapered
shaft, the 28 is a straight tube. Both are fiberglass, Freedom went to carbon
much later. The walls on the shaft tube are almost ½ inch thick on the 28,
still can’t believe how it failed.





From:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Evans
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005
7:58 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure

The F30 rudderstock always looked bigger than the F28’s.
They were built in different TPI shops.


dge



----- Original Message -----


From: Fargo Rousseau


To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com



Sent: Monday, December
05, 2005 8:44 PM


Subject: Re:
[freedomyachts2003] 1987 Mull Freedom 28
Rudder Failure

\



Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding?
The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this
size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail
one out of your boat…

\



Fargo

\



NARISA F30#12

lioneldmp7 <doug.payne@…>
wrote:


Having searched the archives,
I only find one incident of rudder
failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of
this year. I lost
my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and
found it sheared off
right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark
Edwards today, I
understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The
rudder lies in 120
feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low,
a diver can’t see
his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the
rudder. Talked to the F
30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI,

generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a
custom rudder, foam
blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but
expensive solution. They
built the rudder from Freedom plans which the
owner had to purchase
from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom
might make one if
they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I
have to talk to
Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said
among other things
Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new
ownership took over.

Have any of you had experience with Freedom
building parts from
original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if
that has been their
practice in the past.

Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30
owner said he really
wasn’t interested in doing this type work.

Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms?
You 28 owners out
there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks
or deterioration.
Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years
ago, adjusted and
all was well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.




\

7

Posted by Charles Arasim (crarasim@…>)

Doug,
Sorry to hear about your rudder loss. Sounds like it could have been much worse.
I would think if you had gone aground you would have felt it and would have keel damage also…Hope the repairs go quickly.
I’m thinking of getting into a 28 or maybe a 30 myself. I just returned home from a San Deigo to Honolulu passge by way of Hilo on a J40. Took us 16days 5hours to Hilo.
My 21 just seems too small now, I’ve already gotten a larger truck that can handle towing 14,000lbs. More than enough for a 28.
I would be dry sailing like I do my 21, can you tell me the beam dimension on the 28?
I think we talked about this before and I recall you saying you don’t fool around with “wide load” permits and signs.

Charlie Arasim
Rio Rancho NM

8

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Thank you, Doug, for the details. We are currently sailing our F30 in some strong gusty weather…down the East Coast. From this group I understand that this is a rare problem. Will keep an eye on it. Fargo F30#12"Payne, Doug" <doug.payne@…> wrote: We will never know what really happened. The blade is on the bottom of the lake. The “stump” at the point of exit of the shaft from the hull has shreds of fiberglass cloth about 4 inches long and shattered fractured glass resin. I have some pictures. It
could have been grounded at some time in its history, I will never know. We were sailing in 14-16 knots apparent and our lake is prone to significant gusts. It was dusk, the boat violently rounded up, I thought it was a gust because it felt like one, however there are submerged islands in the area that are marked by buoys, I didn’t notice a shudder from striking something, there could have been one. Got the boat under control and had rudder control, sailed for 5 minutes, tacked, sailed ten minutes the other way on a beam reach, all of a sudden bammm, no rudder control, emergency tiller was inieffective, assume the blade dropped off at that point. All very strange. . From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo RousseauSent: Monday, December 05, 2005 7:44 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] 1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding? The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail one out of your boat… Fargo NARISA F30#12lioneldmp7 <doug.payne@…> wrote: Having searched the archives, I only find one incident of rudder failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of this year. I lost my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and found it sheared off
right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark Edwards today, I understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The rudder lies in 120 feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low, a diver can’t see his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the rudder. Talked to the F 30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI, generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a custom rudder, foam blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but expensive solution. They built the rudder from Freedom plans which the owner had to purchase
from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom might make one if they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I have to talk to Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said among other things Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new ownership took over. Have any of you had experience with Freedom building parts from original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if that has been their practice in the past. Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30 owner said he really wasn’t interested in doing this type work. Have their been other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks or deterioration. Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years ago, adjusted and all was well. Thanks in advance for your replies.

9

Posted by Payne, Doug (doug.payne@…>)


I wouldn’t loose any sleep, from my
research, I am about the second failure out of a couple thousand boats.





From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo Rousseau
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
2:23 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [freedomyachts2003]
1987 Mull Freedom 28 Rudder Failure

Thank you, Doug, for the details. We are currently sailing our F30 in
some strong gusty weather…down the East Coast. From this group I
understand that this is a rare problem. Will keep an eye on it.

\



Fargo


F30#12

“Payne, Doug”
<doug.payne@…> wrote:



We will never know what really happened.
The blade is on the bottom of the lake. The “stump” at the point of
exit of the shaft from the hull has shreds of fiberglass cloth about 4 inches
long and shattered fractured glass resin. I have some pictures. It could have
been grounded at some time in its history, I will never know. We were sailing
in 14-16 knots apparent and our lake is prone to significant gusts. It was
dusk, the boat violently rounded up, I thought it was a gust because it felt
like one, however there are submerged islands in the area that are marked by
buoys, I didn’t notice a shudder from striking something, there could
have been one. Got the boat under control and had rudder control, sailed for 5
minutes, tacked, sailed ten minutes the other way on a beam reach, all of a
sudden bammm, no rudder control, emergency tiller was inieffective, assume the
blade dropped off at that point. All very strange. .

\







From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fargo Rousseau
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005
7:44 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
1987 Mull
Freedom 28 Rudder Failure


\




Do you think that the rudder had ever suffered a hard grounding?
The F30 rudder and post looks so much more robust than the typical boat of this
size. It is hard to believe (I don’t want to believe) that you could sail
one out of your boat…



\





Fargo



\





NARISA F30#12

lioneldmp7
<doug.payne@…> wrote:




Having searched the archives,
I only find one incident of rudder
failure on Freedoms, a 1987 Mull F30 in August of
this year. I lost
my rudder this weekend, just hauled the boat and
found it sheared off
right where it exits the hull. Talking to Mark
Edwards today, I
understand the shaft is a fiberglass tube. The
rudder lies in 120
feet of water that I am told has visibilty so low,
a diver can’t see
his glove on his hand. We aren’t finding the
rudder. Talked to the F
30 owner tonight, he went with GMT Composites in Bristol RI,

generated a big bill (insurance covered it) and a
custom rudder, foam
blade, carbon fiber shaft, etc. A good but
expensive solution. They
built the rudder from Freedom plans which the
owner had to purchase
from Freedom. Mark today indicated that Freedom
might make one if
they can find the mold out in the yard, but that I
have to talk to
Bob Wheeler the Customer Service manager. He said
among other things
Freedom is a bit friendlier since the new
ownership took over.

Have any of you had experience with Freedom
building parts from
original molds? I am hoping to argue presedent if
that has been their
practice in the past.

Haven’t talked to Paul Dennis yet, but the F30
owner said he really
wasn’t interested in doing this type work.

Have their been
other rudder failures on Freedoms? You 28 owners out
there might want to inspect your shafts for cracks
or deterioration.
Mine was dropped when I bought the boat two years
ago, adjusted and
all was well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.





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