I need to do something. My batteries with solar can not keep up with the refrigeration system. I know I need more insulation and probably a more updated unit since the original of 1985 is no doubt obsolete. What products have people updated their boats with? What type are you happy with?
Thanks for your anticpated help and suggestions,
Sward
As always, this is an equation which needs to be balanced and there are lots of variables which can be adjusted. I personally don’t find that I get a very good “bang for the buck” using solar. I am much happier using a combination of solar, wind and an inverter/charger with a generator. I don’t know where you sail, but I spend a lot of time in the Caribbean where you get pretty steady trade winds.
Now for the start of 20+ questions:
– Geoff
I’ll wait for answers too. 
And welcome aboard!
George
Hello Sward,
If I recall correctly you have a Hoyt F32 like me. I recently replaced my refrigeration and checked the insulation of the existing icebox. As I recall there is at least 3" in the walls, which is OK but could be better, unfortunately I could not check the base insulation as it was inaccessible, but I assume it has to be similar to the side walls. As you are in Florida this may be an issue, but a difficult one to overcome without rebuilding your ice box.
One thing that may be a problem is that your insulation has become waterlogged, this can really only be checked by destructive measures and drilling small holes and checking for moisture. If waterlogged then a rebuild could be in order and you could then increase your insulation, but not without reducing the ice box capacity.
If your system has been working well and only recently become a ‘power hog’ then you might also check the seal on your lid and also making sure that the drain hole on the base of the ice box is plugged to prevent the cold air falling out of the bottom of your unit.
Other questions are adequately covered by Geoff.
In my case, when I bought ‘Magic’ it had a Sea Frost engine driven refrigeration system with a large holding plate. Unfortunately, during the pre-purchase sea-trial when the refrigeration was tested it was found that the R12 Freon had leaked and the compressor ‘locked-up’. Replacement of the compressor was not an option as the whole system would pretty much need replacement to upgrade to a more environmentally friendly refrigerant. I decided to rip the whole system out and replace it with a 12 volt system.
I chose to stay with Sea Frost and chose their ‘BD’ system with a custom built icebox to fit the F32’s ice box. The BD system I chose is rated well for the 6 to 7 cu ft ice box and I have been pleased with the results. The compressor used in these systems is a Danfoss BD50 that is a quite power efficient and can be made more efficient by fitting a speed control. I have calculated that in ‘tropical’ use it will consume 55 to 50 amp/hours per day.
Robert
Thanks Geoff,
*I have 3 solar panels 85W each
*I am usually in warmer climates-in Vero Beach, FL right now-headed to the Bahama’s
*I live aboard
*When I was away for Christmas the batteries were fine using solar with the fridge turned off
*When the water and temp’s are cooler the fridge works fine
*My batteries are golfcart-T105’s. There are 4 total and are relatively new and have been tested and are in good shape
*It is the original AdlourBarbour system
*I called a refrigerator repair man and he said that if there is frost on the evaporator and not on the condensor it is working fine and that these systems run all the time.
*I understand these systems take 5 amps/hour and the solar panels can’t keep that up.
*I don’t have room on my rail for a wind generator
All this leads me to believe that the insulation around the box is bad. I have looked at possibilities to get to it and spray insulation in (I know about expansion with this stuff). There isn’t any room beside the box to put anything. The only thing I can see (with confering with a friend) is to take the box out and take out all the old insulation which i’m sure is bad and replacing it with newer rigid foam insulation with a higher R rating, to resolve that issue. And while I’m at it, install a new refrigeration system. After all, when in a house we have to replace these things every 25 years too.
This has been a problem for a long time, however, a new situation has arrisen that has proved to be another issue here. My battery charger died so I’ve had to run the engine to charge the batteries. Well, I’ve been fighting a loosing battle since the engine is right next to the fridge, and there isn’t any insulation in the engine compartment, I have been thawing the fridge while trying to charge the batteries to keep it cool!! (I’m at a mooring and when the solar isn’t enough, I run my Honda generator to charge the batteries.)
I think I have answered all your questions and spoken to all issues.
Sward
Dream On
A quick-fix for inadequate insulation follows:
Get a roll of “Reflectix” (called something else at Lowe’s & Home Depot, but the same thing). This is the foil-faced bubble pack insulation.
Plan & cut the minimum number of pieces needed to cover the interior of your box. You will have to (temporarily) unfasten your evaporators, cold plates, or whatever in order to effect the installation. Don’t disconnect the refrigeration lines!
Carefully cut the pieces so that they fit tightly against the adjacent wall with a “press fit”. Use one piece for the front, bottom & “back” (hull side) of the box.
“Cut out” the piece that will be “behind” whatever refrigeration equipment you unfastened and seal those edges. That way you can easily remove “the rest of” that wall (or top) insulation.
Wrap all edges with foil tape. If you want, you can get even more insulation value from doubling the thickness of the insulation. If you do this, I’d suggest NOT joining the layers with foil tape around the edges, but instead, tape the edges of each layer and put one on top of the other.
Don’t worry about cutting out for the drain hole in the bottom.
Depending on your installation (this won’t work if your evaporator is attached to the horizontal top of your box), the following step is optional, but very effective…
Cut a single piece of the insulation that will “float” on top of all your goodies above the level of the evaporator or holding plate. If the box is less-full than this level, you will have effectively reduced the volume of air space which it is necessary to keep cold. If it’s more-full, then it will “self-adjust” as necessary. It also makes it less-important to quickly close the main lid of the box when retrieving items from within. If you have a “spill-over” between the freezer box and the refrigerator box, this “floating lid” must remain higher than that spillover (fan/hole/vent)
You’ll possibly have to adjust your thermostat higher in order to prevent freezing the things that you were formerly merely refrigerating. (or decrease the volume of spillover air into the reefer box from the freezer box).
If you have a spill, or are turning off the box, just pull out the insulation (except for the small pieces which you’ve trapped behind the re-fastened refrigeration equipment) and rinse them off and let them dry. Clean the rest of the box as usual. If you go off and leave the stuff in the box (dirty) with the box turned off, you could get a mold situation going there.
I put this in years ago as a stop-gap in my non-refrigerated ice box & freezer box in order to make the bagged ice work longer… I’m still astounded at how LONG that ice holds up, and the “need” for refrigeration for my weekend-to-five-day excursions has basically been eliminated (I’m still using just ice or ice & dry ice).
The weight of the cans, bottles, ice etc hasn’t “popped” any noticeable percentage of the bubbles. The items in the box don’t make near as much noise rolling around, and there’s less of a chance of breaking any glass bottles that may be in there (if you keep the gin cold, the ice in the glass lasts longer).
The stuff’s not very expensive, and it would be a good way of determining whether merely augmenting your box insulation would be enough to permit you to operate your (existing) refrigeration on your solar panels.
My favorite outdoor bar (now gone) in Rockport, Texas was unable to keep the margaritas in the machine frozen due to the warm air that blew over the clear plastic “bucket” (on top of the machine) that contained the mix. I suggested this to them, and it worked like a champ. They just wrapped the machine in the foil faced bubble pack…voila…frozen margaritas.
You can do the same for your “igloo” type cooler, particularly if it’s used on deck.
I made up hatch covers for the interior of my main hatches out of the stuff. Makes a huge difference. If they get ratty looking, just toss them and make up some more for a few bucks.
There’s no reason you couldn’t “quilt” this into exterior canvas hatch covers/companionway covers either.
re: my post below
The “floating” piece must also not be below the sensor bulb for the refrigeration system, otherwise it will “fool” the system into thinking that more cold is needed, as the air above the floating piece will be warmer.
OK…
Two things you can do with an older adler barbour system to improve performance.
Ditch the old permanent magnet fan on the evaporator and replace it with a computer style pancake fan.
Replace the old controller with a modern controller.
The difference is huge! The older those clunky fan units get the worse they draw. The modern controllers sense head pressure and adjust the work load on the compressor accordingly instead of working either wide open or off.
George
I did add 2 pancake fans a couple of years ago-not replaced the existing one-should I do that and how? And the contoller is the dial to adjust the setting’s? I have thought might be a problem. How do I replace that? I think it has attached the piece of wire that goes into the box that’s probably a sensor/temp guage, the other wire must go back to the compressor-would that wiring need to be replaced as well?
You can take this chance to modernize your old unit. The new controller essentially replaces all the old electronics and needs not dial controller as it is completely automatic. There will be a thermostat to set the temperature point in the box. Get rid of that old energy hog fan. If all this does not work, or the unit wears out otherwise, you can still keep that controller to use with your replacement unit.
http://www.rparts.com/ These guys should have everything you need.
It is the AEO module that you are looking for.
George
Hey,
I just dug around in my junk and found one of those fans. If you need it let me know and you can have it. Make sure and check the pin arrangement on your current compressor before ordering the controller.
Good luck
George
What is the AEO? I didn’t see anything on that website that would have been that. Thanks for the help.
Scroll down to the BD-50 and see under controllers.
You should check with them first about compatibility.
George
Thanks George, I finally found it-I was looking under parts-not complete units. I’ll call Monday to talk with them about it.
There is no calling rparts. You can only e-mail them and/or use their forum (which is very good.)
– Geoff
Sward,
for what it’s worth, I’ve been very happy with the Frigoboat systems I’ve installed on Bright Star and Glory. Bright Star’s was a keel cooler model, which remains pretty efficient until the water is above 80 degrees. Great Water provided the system, which included an intelligent controller for the system. I believe once the system had drawn down the cold, it was running about 15 minutes/hour, drawing no more than 5 amps for that time.
The system on Glory is air-cooled, and it is mostly as efficient as the keel cooler model, although the location leaves a little to be desired - right next to the engine compartment. It tends to draw a bit more for the hour or so after we anchor.
Both systems were purchased and installed by Great-Water, Inc. out of Brunswick Maine. I cannot recommend them highly enough, not only for the actual systems, but for providing endless support, advice, and discussion about all things refrigerant.
Lance
Thanks Lance,
You are saying 5 amps an hour? That’s the problem-that’s too much. I think the AdlourBarbour draws 5 amps an hour too-although it is 24/7.
I had heard good things about the Frigoboat too. But if I’m in warm water that might be a problem too. I am going to insulate the engine compartment-what a crazy thing that is-to have them side by side and the engine compartment not insulated. It’s something I never thought of before.
Good points Geoff,
The forum is excellent there. I went with Danfos expansion valves for our cold plates because I can swap orifices if I need to. rparts (and a few other sources) helped me select a set that will probably work right the first time.
You know one thing we might be missing is that the solar panels don’t keep their efficiency forever. I wonder if they are putting out well? How old are they?
Ah… just saw your latest. If that unit is running non stop then there is something wrong that a controller and fan probably won’t fix. Sorry. Puts us back to discussion of insulation and perhaps replacement systems.
George
You could probably use several layers of the Reflectix (mentioned earlier in this thread) to insulate the engine compartment too, but I wouldn’t recommend doing it without covering it up with a layer of something a lot less flammable…it is, after all…plastic bubble pack with a thin layer of foil. It’s not going to just burst into flame, but It would sure melt and contribute to the fire load if you got a fire going in there…
Maybe you could cover up the insulation (whatever you use) with some of that stick-on-the-wall FRP stuff they sell in sheets at Lowe’s and Home Depot (looks like gas-station-bathroom-wall covering). Someone was considering using that to replace the overhead in another thread. I don’t know what the fire rating of that stuff is, however, it may be very high in resin/plastic content. I imagine that you might have some trouble getting it to burn when glued on a wall, but “standing proud” a bit might be a different story.
Whatever you use in there, give the fire thing some thought.
My experience with solar panels is that at most you get 50% of their rated output. In this case you’ve got (3) 85 watt panels, which theoretically can output 255 watts. In my experience, they’re probably outputting a max of 125 watts, of 10 A with the sun directly overhead, no shadows, etc. Given that it’s winter and we’ve only got about 8 hours of sun, you’re probably only getting about 40 AH into your batteries. If your refrig is running non-stop at 5 A, you’re using 120 AH, so you’ve got a deficit of 80 AH. Oops!
I don’t know what the location is of the refrig box relative to the engine box, but you’re also fighting the heat generated by the engine if you’re running the engine to charge the batteries. Whenever I pull into an anchorage after running the engine, I make sure that I open the doors to the engine box to let out as much heat as I can.
– Geoff