Posted by awoksen5 (awoksen5@…>)
I am considering an all chain anchor rode for my F30. I am concerned
about space in the anchor locker, and about the effects of weight on
sailing performance. Has anyone used 300 ft of chain. If so, have
you noticed a significant effect on sailing?
Posted by ketchman47 (katch47@…>)
OK, the first question is why are you considering 300 feet? Are you
really anchoring is deep water? You need considerably less chain
than nylon rode. A good alternative is to use enough chain to anchor
on all chain in your common anchorages and have nylong spliced to it
to add enough to anchor the occasional deeper areas. Of course the
weight of chain will have an adverse effect on your boat’s sailing
ability as does having an anchor up there on the roller in the first
place. The question is- is it a tolerable decrease considering that
you have the convenience and safety of an anchor ready to go and
chain instead of nylon. To test, get a person or people of the
weight of the proposed gear and go sailing against a sister ship or
similar boat. Then have the folks walk forward and pretend they are
anchors and chain. See how the boat does in various conditions, then
make your decision. Lenny
Posted by awoksen5 (awoksen5@…>)
Thanks Lenny,
I sail in the Pacific Northwest and many of our anchorages are very
deep (fjords), hence the long chain. I currently have 100 ft of
chain spliced to rode and I am happy with it. The problem is that
rode takes up much more space than chain, and I need the space for
the required drop of the windlass.
Alan
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ketchman47” <katch47@c…>
wrote:
OK, the first question is why are you considering 300 feet? Are you
really anchoring is deep water? You need considerably less chain
than nylon rode. A good alternative is to use enough chain to
anchor
on all chain in your common anchorages and have nylong spliced to
it
to add enough to anchor the occasional deeper areas. Of course the
weight of chain will have an adverse effect on your boat’s sailing
ability as does having an anchor up there on the roller in the
first
place. The question is- is it a tolerable decrease considering that
you have the convenience and safety of an anchor ready to go and
chain instead of nylon. To test, get a person or people of the
weight of the proposed gear and go sailing against a sister ship or
similar boat. Then have the folks walk forward and pretend they are
anchors and chain. See how the boat does in various conditions,
then
make your decision. Lenny
Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)
But nylon may have more of a tendency to coil out near the sides of the locker while chain will pile vertically in the center. The problem with that much chain is will stacks up then falls over in a seaway, causing tangles as well as the other issues mentioned. decisions!
Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706
----- Original Message -----
From: awoksen5
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: anchor chain
Thanks Lenny,I sail in the Pacific Northwest and many of our anchorages are very deep (fjords), hence the long chain. I currently have 100 ft of chain spliced to rode and I am happy with it. The problem is that rode takes up much more space than chain, and I need the space for the required drop of the windlass.Alan— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ketchman47” <katch47@c…> wrote:> OK, the first question is why are you considering 300 feet? Are you > really anchoring is deep water? You need considerably less chain > than nylon rode. A good alternative is to use enough chain to anchor > on all chain in your common anchorages and have nylong spliced to it > to add enough to anchor the occasional deeper areas. Of course the > weight of chain will have an adverse effect on your boat’s sailing > ability as does having an anchor up there on the roller in the first > place. The question is- is it a tolerable decrease considering that > you have the convenience and safety of an anchor ready to go and > chain instead of nylon. To test, get a person or people of the > weight of the proposed gear and go sailing against a sister ship or > similar boat. Then have the folks walk forward and pretend they are > anchors and chain. See how the boat does in various conditions, then > make your decision. Lenny
Posted by mike_c_f35ck (mike_c_f35ck@…>)
well, 300 ft is quite a bit, but apparently you need a lot of length.
My experience with 150 ft of chain and 150 ft of 18mm nylon spliced
to the chain is that the chain coils up more neatly than the rope.
The anchorwinch and the rope don’t like eachother either. And chain
is much nicer to anchor on.
The weight of 300 ft of chain is somthing that will seriously affect
the behaviour of any sailboat, especially a Freedom with already much
weight on the bow. I would say: find an acceptable compromise for a
chain-rope combination.
good luck,
mike
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “awoksen5” <awoksen5@y…>
wrote:
I am considering an all chain anchor rode for my F30. I am
concerned
about space in the anchor locker, and about the effects of weight
on
sailing performance. Has anyone used 300 ft of chain. If so, have
you noticed a significant effect on sailing?
Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)
Whatever you do don’t put 300 feet of chain in a 30 footer. That’s
way too much weight. Unless you plan to anchor in coral an all chain
rode is generally unnecessary. The best setup is enough chain to
cover 80% of your anchoring situations and the rest in the form of
rope. Use HT chain to save some weight. You can use a smaller size
and not sacrifice strength. When anchoring with chain you don’t use
as much as you would with rope. Depending upon the bottom, wind,
waves, and tidal considerations you can get by with a scope of 4:1
with chain, even less if you just making a lunch stop. So if you
tend to anchor in 15 or 20 feet of water, a 100 feet of HT chain is
adequate. You may wish to carry additional chain and a means of
joining the 2 lengths but that additional chain should be carried
somewhere near midships and low. I have a friend who is halfway
through a circumnavigation and he is not a fan of the all chain rode
concept.
If it isn’t already there you’ll need a strong partition to prevent
the chain from coming into contact with the mast. I think on our 39
we had 2 pieces of 3/4 ply tabbed to the hull providing protection.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “awoksen5” <awoksen5@y…>
wrote:
I am considering an all chain anchor rode for my F30. I am
concerned
about space in the anchor locker, and about the effects of weight
on
sailing performance. Has anyone used 300 ft of chain. If so,
have
you noticed a significant effect on sailing?
Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)
Anchoring is debated as adamantly as are politics and religion. But it is an engineering problem with an engineering solution. Please be very careful with short scoping because you use chain. Anchors, plow, Bruce, danforth and there like work on angles. 7:1 gives about 8 degrees of angle on the shank when the rode is strait. I know, the chain with it’s catenary will reduce that angle. Sorry, that is a static calculation. Whey in a wind, we all know that boats swing in a lopsided figure eight pattern with higher loads on the outward swings. But seldom acknowledged is the effect of waves. As the boat is lifted in a wave, the pitching motion is up and aft and can generate a load many times the displacement of the vessel. In a sea, the dynamic loads will reduce the catenary to the point where it acts more like a steel rod then a shock absorber. A bridle can be used to reduce that, but I have yet to see one that is properly designed. Safe working for nylon is in the sub 20% stretch. So the line must be small enough to stretch under the expected conditions, but never stretch beyond the 20%. So you need 100 ft of nylon to get 20 foot of shock absorbing. And avoid at all costs, the bridle being too short so that the chain comes up taught in the middle of a wave. So when you work it all out, some chain followed by nylon is what works best. Of course that is ignoring the issue or coral and other abrasive bottoms.
A PHD friend studied this issue. calculated the catenary on every like of chain and concluded that 110 ft chain followed my nylon worked best Under static loads the catenary provided a horizontal pull with 7:1 scope measured at the bow roller up to the common anchor rating of 40mph in protected waters.
OK, so you can cheat on this and I do all the time, but if conditions worsen, be ready. Remember, at 3:1 the angle at the anchor will prevent the flukes from even engaging in the bottom under load.
I have written an article on anchoring, not published, but will put it up on my web site that I am in the process of revising over the next few weeks.
Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Benjamin
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:34 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: anchor chain
Whatever you do don’t put 300 feet of chain in a 30 footer. That’s way too much weight. Unless you plan to anchor in coral an all chain rode is generally unnecessary. The best setup is enough chain to cover 80% of your anchoring situations and the rest in the form of rope. Use HT chain to save some weight. You can use a smaller size and not sacrifice strength. When anchoring with chain you don’t use as much as you would with rope. Depending upon the bottom, wind, waves, and tidal considerations you can get by with a scope of 4:1 with chain, even less if you just making a lunch stop. So if you tend to anchor in 15 or 20 feet of water, a 100 feet of HT chain is adequate. You may wish to carry additional chain and a means of joining the 2 lengths but that additional chain should be carried somewhere near midships and low. I have a friend who is halfway through a circumnavigation and he is not a fan of the all chain rode concept. If it isn’t already there you’ll need a strong partition to prevent the chain from coming into contact with the mast. I think on our 39 we had 2 pieces of 3/4 ply tabbed to the hull providing protection. — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “awoksen5” <awoksen5@y…> wrote:> I am considering an all chain anchor rode for my F30. I am concerned > about space in the anchor locker, and about the effects of weight on > sailing performance. Has anyone used 300 ft of chain. If so, have > you noticed a significant effect on sailing?
Posted by awoksen5 (awoksen5@…>)
Thanks Dave,
I am aware of all the arguments. The problem, though, can be summed
up as follows. I need a 300 ft rode because I live in the Pacific
Northwest and spend time in the fjords of Britich Columbia where one
often has to anchor in water with a depth of 70 ft plus. I want to
install a vertical windlass that needs a minimum of a one foot drop.
I do not have enough room in the anchor locker for a chain/rope
combination (chain takes up much less space than rope). So, unless I
use all chain I would beed to rebuild the locker (which would make
the berths in the forepeak to short). So what I want to know is
this. Has anyone used 300 ft of 1/4 inch chain and what was their
experience.
Best,
A
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@y…> wrote:
Whatever you do don’t put 300 feet of chain in a 30 footer. That’s
way too much weight. Unless you plan to anchor in coral an all
chain
rode is generally unnecessary. The best setup is enough chain to
cover 80% of your anchoring situations and the rest in the form of
rope. Use HT chain to save some weight. You can use a smaller size
and not sacrifice strength. When anchoring with chain you don’t use
as much as you would with rope. Depending upon the bottom, wind,
waves, and tidal considerations you can get by with a scope of 4:1
with chain, even less if you just making a lunch stop. So if you
tend to anchor in 15 or 20 feet of water, a 100 feet of HT chain is
adequate. You may wish to carry additional chain and a means of
joining the 2 lengths but that additional chain should be carried
somewhere near midships and low. I have a friend who is halfway
through a circumnavigation and he is not a fan of the all chain
rode
concept.
If it isn’t already there you’ll need a strong partition to prevent
the chain from coming into contact with the mast. I think on our 39
we had 2 pieces of 3/4 ply tabbed to the hull providing protection.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “awoksen5”
<awoksen5@y…>
wrote:I am considering an all chain anchor rode for my F30. I am
concerned
about space in the anchor locker, and about the effects of weight
on
sailing performance. Has anyone used 300 ft of chain. If so,
have
you noticed a significant effect on sailing?