Anyone using DSG radio?

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1

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

I had to replace my VHF radio so my new one, of course, has Digital
Selective Calling (DSC). I follow this and one other sailing website as
well as having the usual dockside BS sessions down at the boat. I
haven’t actually installed the radio yet but posting some messages and
asking around at the dock, I’m beginning to get a clear message:

So far, DSC radio seems to have been a flop.

No one seems to know much about them. Of the 4 boats in my marina with
DSC, only one owner has even gotten the (free) “MMSI” registration
number to make the DSC function work (and he’s a CG auxilary member.)
He and one other guy are the only ones to actually hook the radio to
the GPS. The other 2 never did either one and don’t plan to (their
opinion, boiled down, is “PFFFFT!..I just want a radio.”)

Is anyone using this? I SEEMED like a good idea…

Rick
Tallahassee

2

Posted by brigup (sailordude@…>)

I have DSC implemented on S/V Cayenne, and went to some expense and effort to do so.

IF the “panic button” is not enough of a draw, I am of the understanding that the CG will be moving emergency calling to DSC as channel 16 becomes saturated.

The marine radios manufactures have gone thru their learning curves and gotten most of the bugs out. Some have done a better job then others. But still, using DSC is very clumsy and I hope that issue will improved in the next generation.

The lack of participation is probably a major contributing cause of the lack of participation. Frustration dealing with the saturation on CH. 16 will be the best motivator. DSC shines when you have a call list that is very static, or are looking to do group polling like in a club event position report.

Brian


On 12/20/07 10:59 AM, “rick_simonds” <rick_simonds@…> wrote:

\



I had to replace my VHF radio so my new one, of course, has Digital
Selective Calling (DSC). I follow this and one other sailing website as
well as having the usual dockside BS sessions down at the boat. I
haven’t actually installed the radio yet but posting some messages and
asking around at the dock, I’m beginning to get a clear message:

So far, DSC radio seems to have been a flop.

No one seems to know much about them. Of the 4 boats in my marina with
DSC, only one owner has even gotten the (free) “MMSI” registration
number to make the DSC function work (and he’s a CG auxilary member.)
He and one other guy are the only ones to actually hook the radio to
the GPS. The other 2 never did either one and don’t plan to (their
opinion, boiled down, is “PFFFFT!..I just want a radio.”)

Is anyone using this? I SEEMED like a good idea…

Rick
Tallahassee


\

3

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Ditto to what Brian said (nice to see you, btw, Brian!)

I had DSC hooked up to the GPS on Bright Star. While I don’t think I
ever used it to actually call anyone else (except for the test),
there were two things I liked, at least in principle. One was that it
was easier to display the lat/long on the radio than it was on my
chart plotter. The second was that - technically - hitting the DSC
emergency button would send your position to the Coast Guard. The
gotcha was that - at least in 2006 - Boston’s CG station didn’t
actually have DSC emergency reception equipment. Brian may be right
that eventually DSC will be the Coast Guard’s prime emergency contact
method, although smaller boats that don’t have a permanent GPS or
radio would have to rely on channel 16 still.

Lance

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “rick_simonds”
<rick_simonds@…> wrote:

I had to replace my VHF radio so my new one, of course, has Digital
Selective Calling (DSC). I follow this and one other sailing
website as
well as having the usual dockside BS sessions down at the boat. I
haven’t actually installed the radio yet but posting some messages
and
asking around at the dock, I’m beginning to get a clear message:

So far, DSC radio seems to have been a flop.

No one seems to know much about them. Of the 4 boats in my marina
with
DSC, only one owner has even gotten the (free) “MMSI” registration
number to make the DSC function work (and he’s a CG auxilary
member.)
He and one other guy are the only ones to actually hook the radio
to
the GPS. The other 2 never did either one and don’t plan to (their
opinion, boiled down, is “PFFFFT!..I just want a radio.”)

Is anyone using this? I SEEMED like a good idea…

Rick
Tallahassee

4

Posted by Merlin Clark (merlineoddive@…>)
It sounds like you believe the system is a “flop” because 3 of your 4 dockmates with the radios haven’t put forth the effort to get their numbers, hook up GPS or read the manual?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

5

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Merlin Clark
<merlineoddive@…> wrote:

It sounds like you believe the system is a “flop” because 3 of your
4 dockmates with the radios haven’t put forth the effort to get their
numbers, hook up GPS or read the manual?

I posted the question partially because of that, but I believe DSC is
a flop because, well,… because it seems to be a flop!

Of my dockmates, it’s not 3 out of 4, it’s really 4 out of 4. Two
ignored the DWC feature entirely. One guy hooked it to the GPS only
to have a lat/lon readout at the nav station, he never got his MMSI
number. I asked the single guy who has it fully hooked up what his
MMSI number was. His answer: “I’d have to look it up. I don’t
actually use the DSC calling part. I have it so the CG Auxiliary can
automatically ‘poll’ my position, though they don’t actually do that
yet.”

On another website I posted a question about how to get a “group”
MMSI number. No one knew. The answers that were posted also strongly
suggested that no one actually uses DSC in the real world. (Does
anyone here know?)

I’m oddly having trouble locating a source of reliable information
about DSC. A call to my local Sea Tow and an email to Sea Tow (who
registers MMSI numbers) about how to get a group number resulted
in “We only do individual, US-flagged pleasure boats. Try the FCC.”
No response from the FCC yet, although I’m a bit pessimistic because
they don’t do private pleasure boats, only commercial boats. There’s
no information on their website. No response to my email yet from
BOAT/US, either. Nor any information on their website.

The Coast Guard itself seems to be neglecting DSC. Surfing the net
for information about DSC, I read on the Coast Guard’s site that
the “Rescue 21” system (the system based on DSC) “is expected to be
operational in 2005.” 2005!? No only does it appear that the system
is seriously behind, it appears to have been years since updating
what its actual status is.

I am thankful for the responses I’ve gotten here, I’m not out to
speak for anyone else, but a part of Lance’s response (“… I don’t
think I ever used it to actually call anyone else (except for the
test)…”) is almost exclusively what I’m hearing from the already-
small percentage of people who have fully put the equipment in
service. Brian’s response seems to confirm that the participation
level he’s seeing is low. Brian’s post here didn’t seem to be a
particularly strong endorsement and so far, among people with real-
world experience with DSC, it’s actually one of the most positive
I’ve read.

My post here, my post on another site, my reading of the internet
material available, calls to Sea Tow and all of my discussions with
real people who own the equipment has generated, at best, indifferent
reactions to DSC. And that same response seems to be across the
spectrum: users, the marine industry and regulators. I have not heard
EVEN ONE response that’s anywhere near “I have it, I use it, I like
it.”

I’m new to all this but right now, to me, DSC seems to be dead in the
water.

That’s too bad, too. Until I really got started on it, DSC sounded
like a great system. My complaint with standard VHF is listening to
the mountain of mish-mash just to hear the occasional call for me,
just “dialing” my boat sounds like a much better idea. I’d also love
to set up a “friends” group so that when one of us has a dead engine
or runs aground he can just light up all the radios in the “friends”
group and see if someone is around who can help him out. We do that
all the time now with cell phones.

It looks like our cell phone system is still going to be around for a
while.

6

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
When I applied to the FCC for my Ship Station License you can check a box on the application and an MMSI number is issued. I have the number but have not connected the radio to my chart plotter/GPS. The FCC does issue them for pleasure craft.
On Dec 21, 2007 12:01 PM, rick_simonds <rick_simonds@…> wrote:




— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Merlin Clark
<merlineoddive@…> wrote:

It sounds like you believe the system is a “flop” because 3 of your
4 dockmates with the radios haven’t put forth the effort to get their
numbers, hook up GPS or read the manual?

I posted the question partially because of that, but I believe DSC is
a flop because, well,… because it seems to be a flop!

Of my dockmates, it’s not 3 out of 4, it’s really 4 out of 4. Two
ignored the DWC feature entirely. One guy hooked it to the GPS only
to have a lat/lon readout at the nav station, he never got his MMSI
number. I asked the single guy who has it fully hooked up what his
MMSI number was. His answer: “I’d have to look it up. I don’t
actually use the DSC calling part. I have it so the CG Auxiliary can
automatically ‘poll’ my position, though they don’t actually do that
yet.”

On another website I posted a question about how to get a “group”
MMSI number. No one knew. The answers that were posted also strongly
suggested that no one actually uses DSC in the real world. (Does
anyone here know?)

I’m oddly having trouble locating a source of reliable information
about DSC. A call to my local Sea Tow and an email to Sea Tow (who
registers MMSI numbers) about how to get a group number resulted
in “We only do individual, US-flagged pleasure boats. Try the FCC.”
No response from the FCC yet, although I’m a bit pessimistic because
they don’t do private pleasure boats, only commercial boats. There’s
no information on their website. No response to my email yet from
BOAT/US, either. Nor any information on their website.

The Coast Guard itself seems to be neglecting DSC. Surfing the net
for information about DSC, I read on the Coast Guard’s site that
the “Rescue 21” system (the system based on DSC) “is expected to be
operational in 2005.” 2005!? No only does it appear that the system
is seriously behind, it appears to have been years since updating
what its actual status is.

I am thankful for the responses I’ve gotten here, I’m not out to
speak for anyone else, but a part of Lance’s response (“… I don’t
think I ever used it to actually call anyone else (except for the
test)…”) is almost exclusively what I’m hearing from the already-
small percentage of people who have fully put the equipment in
service. Brian’s response seems to confirm that the participation
level he’s seeing is low. Brian’s post here didn’t seem to be a
particularly strong endorsement and so far, among people with real-
world experience with DSC, it’s actually one of the most positive
I’ve read.

My post here, my post on another site, my reading of the internet
material available, calls to Sea Tow and all of my discussions with
real people who own the equipment has generated, at best, indifferent
reactions to DSC. And that same response seems to be across the
spectrum: users, the marine industry and regulators. I have not heard
EVEN ONE response that’s anywhere near “I have it, I use it, I like
it.”

I’m new to all this but right now, to me, DSC seems to be dead in the
water.

That’s too bad, too. Until I really got started on it, DSC sounded
like a great system. My complaint with standard VHF is listening to
the mountain of mish-mash just to hear the occasional call for me,
just “dialing” my boat sounds like a much better idea. I’d also love
to set up a “friends” group so that when one of us has a dead engine
or runs aground he can just light up all the radios in the “friends”
group and see if someone is around who can help him out. We do that
all the time now with cell phones.

It looks like our cell phone system is still going to be around for a
while.




– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area

7

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:

When I applied to the FCC for my Ship Station License you can check
a box on
the application and an MMSI number is issued. I have the number but
have not
connected the radio to my chart plotter/GPS. The FCC does issue
them for
pleasure craft.

You’re right but the FCC issues MMSI numbers only as part of
another radio station license. This is most often a commercial boat
but it can be a pleasure boat, if the pleasure boat requires a radio
station license. A pleasure boat that does not require any other
radio license is not able to get a MMSI from the FCC (unless the
owner is willing to pay for a station license.)

And I’m saying this respectfully with a smile on my face, not in an
aggressive way, but “chalk up another data point for a disconnected
DSC radio!”

8

Posted by Barry Stellrecht (yak@…>)

It sounds like you believe the system is a “flop” because 3 of your 4
dockmates with the radios haven’t put forth the effort to get their numbers,
hook up GPS or read the manual?

Back in 1995 or 1996 I was reading about the USB spec for computers
peripherals, and thought it sounded wonderful…I wondered if it
would ever happen until 1999 or 2000 when Apple put it on the first
iMac. Now, almost 13 years later, it is everywhere, and nobody will
call it a flop.

I don’t expect DSC to be a flop, but it always takes a lot longer to
get people to adopt technology than you expect. Marine radios last a
lot longer than computers, so many boats will have old non-DSC radios
for a long time. It will become “useful” as more people have it–like
any network, the more people who use it, the more useful it is.

I just checked their websites, and now all Standard Horizon and Icom
fixed VHFs are DSC models. Even one or two handheld units do DSC.
Since everybody installing a new VHF will be adding DSC capability,
and some people will set it up, the network will grow. In a couple
years, even the US coastguard will use DSC! As Brian said…The lack
of participation is probably a major contributing cause of the lack of
participation…

Right now, my sailing club is talking about putting MMSI numbers into
the club directory, so we can broadcast/chat with each other at club
cruises. For me, this is the first time I’ve heard somebody suggest
that they “will” use DSC for something rather than that they “could”
use it for something.

I think the network has just about reached the “useful” level, and
will probably improve a lot over the next few years.

Barry

9

Posted by Barry Stellrecht (yak@…>)

It sounds like you believe the system is a “flop” because 3 of your 4
dockmates with the radios haven’t put forth the effort to get their numbers,
hook up GPS or read the manual?

Back in 1995 or 1996 I was reading about the USB spec for computers
peripherals, and thought it sounded wonderful…I wondered if it
would ever happen until 1999 or 2000 when Apple put it on the first
iMac. Now, almost 13 years later, it is everywhere, and nobody will
call it a flop.

I don’t expect DSC to be a flop, but it always takes a lot longer to
get people to adopt technology than you expect. Marine radios last a
lot longer than computers, so many boats will have old non-DSC radios
for a long time. It will become “useful” as more people have it–like
any network, the more people who use it, the more useful it is.

I just checked their websites, and now all Standard Horizon and Icom
fixed VHFs are DSC models. Even one or two handheld units do DSC.
Since everybody installing a new VHF will be adding DSC capability,
and some people will set it up, the network will grow. In a couple
years, even the US coastguard will use DSC! As Brian said…The lack
of participation is probably a major contributing cause of the lack of
participation…

Right now, my sailing club is talking about putting MMSI numbers into
the club directory, so we can broadcast/chat with each other at club
cruises. For me, this is the first time I’ve heard somebody suggest
that they “will” use DSC for something rather than that they “could”
use it for something.

I think the network has just about reached the “useful” level, and
will probably improve a lot over the next few years.

Barry

10

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

I’m not sure I buy the comparison with USB. For one thing, there was
a commercial interest in standardizing an interface on computers. You
make the interface, and the peripherals will come. It actually didn’t
take all that long for USB to become ubiquitous. With DSC, there’s no
demand that it seems to be filling, and the only way that it’s going
to become a ‘standard’ is if, as Brian suggested, it’s mandated by
the CG that you will have DSC as a safety feature.

But as has been pointed out, the CG can’t even get the system
deployed. It seems a lot like “Loran 2000” – 2000! which they
alternately extend and then cut from their budget, trying to decide
if they should upgrade the systems.

There are some serious flaws with the DSC design in the first place.
For instance, the idea that if you ‘mess up’ or change the MMSI, you
can only do it two or three times yourself, and then you have to send
the radio in to be reprogrammed at the factory. Secondly, as has been
pointed out, it’s not trivial to set up an address book. You either
have to know how to pull up your MMSI (on neither of my two radios is
this an easy task), or write it down in your log so you can always
find it, and then broadcast it to your friend so they can add it in
to their radios. Not convenient, not user-friendly. I suspect that
the reason you see it on nearly every radio is because adding the
feature adds next to nothing to the cost of the radio. But unless
newer radios have spent some time on the user interface for DSC, it
ultimately seems to be more trouble than it’s worth.

Two interesting side notes about DSC. Fishermen adopted it early, but
then most have disconnected it because when you poll their radio, you
can get a fix on their position. Not good for competition (although
this is a feature you can usually turn off, again, it requires
digging through a manual probably not written originally in your
native tongue.)

Secondly, BoatUS recently had an action with the FCC about personal
MMSIs. BoatUS and SeaTow are both authorized by the FCC to register
personal MMSIs, but there was a dustup recently that third-party
issued MMSIs would not be recognized by the FCC under certain
circumstances. Here’s a link to the article about that:
http://www.latsandatts.net/forum/viewtopic.php?
t=6979&sid=98024e1d2765131b08a8ed2a72357a7c
Here’s a link to their MMSI site:
http://www.boatus.com/MMSI/default.asp

In the FAQ section, there’s a link to the CG MMSI site, but I didn’t
look to see if it says how to obtain a group MMSI.

11

Posted by gjschouten (gio.schouten@…>)

Dear all,
DSC is not an option, is has become a must in many places on this
planet and soon I expect also the US waters.
The IMO (International Maritime Organisation) has decided a long time
ago that channel 16 will be abanded for initial distress calling all
toghether and be replaced with DSC calling on channel 70. The
effective date has been shifted several times.
Not sure though when this will become effective in the coastal waters
of the USA.
DSC, is the only form of initial distresss calling used and acted upon
by commercial shipping on the open oceans.
Also, it usually is very easy to connect your yacht style DSC
transceiver to your GPS (two wires) , effectively meaning that when
you send out a distress call the receiving parties will automatically
read your exact position on the display.
The Coast Guard in most places in Europe already simply ingnores
incoming DSC distress calls without a position!!!
Gio

















— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Ditto to what Brian said (nice to see you, btw, Brian!)

I had DSC hooked up to the GPS on Bright Star. While I don’t think I
ever used it to actually call anyone else (except for the test),
there were two things I liked, at least in principle. One was that it
was easier to display the lat/long on the radio than it was on my
chart plotter. The second was that - technically - hitting the DSC
emergency button would send your position to the Coast Guard. The
gotcha was that - at least in 2006 - Boston’s CG station didn’t
actually have DSC emergency reception equipment. Brian may be right
that eventually DSC will be the Coast Guard’s prime emergency contact
method, although smaller boats that don’t have a permanent GPS or
radio would have to rely on channel 16 still.

Lance

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “rick_simonds”
<rick_simonds@> wrote:

I had to replace my VHF radio so my new one, of course, has Digital
Selective Calling (DSC). I follow this and one other sailing
website as
well as having the usual dockside BS sessions down at the boat. I
haven’t actually installed the radio yet but posting some messages
and
asking around at the dock, I’m beginning to get a clear message:

So far, DSC radio seems to have been a flop.

No one seems to know much about them. Of the 4 boats in my marina
with
DSC, only one owner has even gotten the (free) “MMSI” registration
number to make the DSC function work (and he’s a CG auxilary
member.)
He and one other guy are the only ones to actually hook the radio
to
the GPS. The other 2 never did either one and don’t plan to (their
opinion, boiled down, is “PFFFFT!..I just want a radio.”)

Is anyone using this? I SEEMED like a good idea…

Rick
Tallahassee

12

Posted by Geoffrey Schultz (geoff.freedom@geoffschultz.org>)

If you’re having problems finding information on how to
register/obtain an MMSI, then you haven’t tried very hard. Simply do
a google search on “VHF MMSI REGISTRATION” and the first several hits
will answer all of your questions. The best overall site is the FCC
at

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?
job=licensing&id=ship_stations

Now as to the question as to who uses it, I do. Granted that many
vessels don’t have an MMSI assigned to them, but it’s wonderful to
communicate with ones who does. This is especially true if you’re
sitting in an anchorage where everyone has nothing better to do than
to “follow” conversations which leave the hailing channel and move to
the working channel. I’ve done it, and I’m sure that you have too.

With DSC you can hail a boat on any channel that you want without
having to use a hailing channel. It’s nice being able to have semi-
private conversations.

Luckily I’ve never had the opportunity to use the distress feature
and broadcast my lat/long, but if an event ever occurs that requires
it, I’ll be glad to have it.

So follow the simple instructions at the FCC website and apply for an
MMSI. It’s simple. Just do it and stop whining.

– Geoff

13

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

Ignore distress calls!? And what about the relatively small craft
that are carrying a hand-held VHF? How very arrogant of the
(so-called) authorities. At 08:44 AM 12/22/2007, you wrote:

Dear all,
DSC is not an option, is has become a must in many places on this
planet and soon I expect also the US waters.
The IMO (International Maritime Organisation) has decided a long time
ago that channel 16 will be abanded for initial distress calling all
toghether and be replaced with DSC calling on channel 70. The
effective date has been shifted several times.
Not sure though when this will become effective in the coastal waters
of the USA.
DSC, is the only form of initial distresss calling used and acted upon
by commercial shipping on the open oceans.
Also, it usually is very easy to connect your yacht style DSC
transceiver to your GPS (two wires) , effectively meaning that when
you send out a distress call the receiving parties will automatically
read your exact position on the display.
The Coast Guard in most places in Europe already simply ingnores
incoming DSC distress calls without a position!!!
Gio

— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Ditto to what Brian said (nice to see you, btw, Brian!)

I had DSC hooked up to the GPS on Bright Star. While I don’t think I
ever used it to actually call anyone else (except for the test),
there were two things I liked, at least in principle. One was that it
was easier to display the lat/long on the radio than it was on my
chart plotter. The second was that - technically - hitting the DSC
emergency button would send your position to the Coast Guard. The
gotcha was that - at least in 2006 - Boston’s CG station didn’t
actually have DSC emergency reception equipment. Brian may be right
that eventually DSC will be the Coast Guard’s prime emergency contact
method, although smaller boats that don’t have a permanent GPS or
radio would have to rely on channel 16 still.

Lance

— In

mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,

“rick_simonds”

<rick_simonds@> wrote:

I had to replace my VHF radio so my new one, of course, has Digital
Selective Calling (DSC). I follow this and one other sailing
website as
well as having the usual dockside BS sessions down at the boat. I
haven’t actually installed the radio yet but posting some messages
and
asking around at the dock, I’m beginning to get a clear message:

So far, DSC radio seems to have been a flop.

No one seems to know much about them. Of the 4 boats in my marina
with
DSC, only one owner has even gotten the (free) “MMSI” registration
number to make the DSC function work (and he’s a CG auxilary
member.)
He and one other guy are the only ones to actually hook the radio
to
the GPS. The other 2 never did either one and don’t plan to (their
opinion, boiled down, is “PFFFFT!..I just want a radio.”)

Is anyone using this? I SEEMED like a good idea…

Rick
Tallahassee

14

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “gjschouten”
<gio.schouten@…> wrote:

Dear all,
DSC is not an option, is has become a must in many places on this
planet and soon I expect also the US waters.
The IMO (International Maritime Organisation) has decided a long time


According to BoatUS, the Coast Guard has no plans in the immediate
future plans to stop monitoring Channel 16 for emergencies.

15

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

Your post is what I’m looking for; I want real-world users to tell me
their experiences - actual day to day users have the best
information. DSC-wise, I want to be in your position, and I will be
shortly. I will probably use it in much the same way as it sounds
like you are using it. (I got my individual MMSI through BoatUS, it
took about 2 minutes on a Google search and about 3 minutes to fill
out a form online. Done. Nothing to it.)

I posted my original message because while starting into this system
I was surprised to find:

  1. The implementation of DSC by the rescue authorities is going more
    slowly than I assumed.

  2. The implementation of DSC by the public seems to be going far more
    slowly than I assumed and a surprising number who already have the
    equipment seem to have no plans to implement it at all.

  3. What I thought would be a minor “tech-y” issue (reliable
    information on how one gets a “group” MMSI, let alone actually
    getting one,) is proving to be surprisingly difficult, in fact it
    still pretty much remains a mystery.

I’d read about the DSC system for a few years. I assumed DSC was in
use and having it would open up new capability. My point in posting
is surprise about how low on the adoption curve, on everyone’s part,
we seem to be. In the real world, right now, it seems to be pretty
much just “potential.”