Bypass valve question

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1

Posted by mike_c_f35ck (mike_c_f35ck@…>)

Brian:

Thanks for your explanation. It’s what I almost designed for my F33,
except the cylinder is not connected to a quadrant (we don’t have
one) but in parallel to the steel rod that connects steering column
and rudder arm.

What I still like to know: how do you operate your bypass valve is
you disengage your autopilot? I suppose it’s electrically operated,
and perhaps automatically operated by your autopilot? Or do you have
a pump with integrated bypass valve?

Cheers,
mike


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil”
<sailordude@b…> wrote:

Mike:
I have a stock cable,pulley,quadrant system with the quadrant
mounted in a recess in the cockpit floor, exposed to weather and sea
from backwash up the cockpit drains. The cylinder attaches to the
(stock) quadrant and has a by-pass (normally open) valve across the
lines form the pump. The pump and by-pass valve are below decks.
The added drag on the steering is not as bad as I had expected and if
needed, I can disconnect the cylinder from the quadrant though that
has not been necessary. There are lots of cylinders out there,
stainless, bronze and other. Often they are exposed to rather harsh
environment of dirt, mud and otherwise.

So I end up with combined standard cable and a mostly independent
hydraulic, sharing only the quadrant on the way to the rudder. So
far the cylinder is weathering just fine. I do rinse the cylinder
with fresh water when available.

I can take a photo and send it directly to you if you wish.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com
206-818-3203 sailordude@b…
1735 112th Ave. N.E.
Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: mike_c_f35ck
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:14 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard rudder post

Brian,

Question to you:

How do you combine mechanical steering and a hydraulic autopilot?
Or
do you have hydraulic steering on you F44? In that case it’s easy
to
combine the two (steering and autopilot on one hydraulic cylinder.

I unsuccesfully tried to figure out a system to combine
rack/pinion/rod steering with a hydraulic autopilot actuator
cylinder, but could not find a solution for a quick release of
the
hydraulic cylinder or a waterproof, easily operated bypass valve
close to the cylinder(out in the open, therefore). I don’t want
to
have to push oil in the autopilot actuator cylinder up and down
while
hand steering.

Now i’m happy with my voyager windvane steering combined with an
old
AH4000.

mike

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil”
<sailordude@b…> wrote:

I am not familiar with the F33, but on my F44, I installed
Autohelm
7001+ 400G with hydraulic cylinder attached to the quadrant,
which is
exposed to weather and will see sea water at higher speeds and
following seas. In 6 months, no problems and it seems to handle
the
steering problem well. Of course, there is a learning curve and
tuning issues but the auto learn feature really helps. The
documentation could be a little better with a little better
explanation of how different adjustments work.

If you want further stuff and a photo of the cylinder, let me
know
at the below address.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com
206-818-3203 sailordude@b…
1735 112th Ave. N.E.
Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: mike_c_f35ck
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:48 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard rudder
post

Tom, Ketch 22 has an inboard rudder post and quadrant, UNlike
the
F33
where all rudder parts are above decks, and largely open to
sea
water. An inboard pilot as the AH6000 cannot be mounted
there.
The
parts are not corrosion proof or water tight - unfortunately.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Ketch 22
<ketch_22@e…>
wrote:

Not sure about the F33, but I have an Autohelm 6000 on
Ketch
22, an
F39. Just sailed from California to Hawaii and back over a 2
month
period. The Autohelm was on very close to 24 hours a day, in
all
different kinds of conditions, including 35 knot winds and 16
foot
seas. It worked fine under all conditions.

Tom
Ketch 22

-----Original Message-----
From: mike_c_f35ck <mike_c_f35ck@y…>
Sent: Aug 24, 2004 1:31 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 Autopilot

I agree, all these claims about torque are maybe true, but

not

on a


> real sea with wave action against our barndoor rudder.

After


> > continuous trouble with my then new Simrad WP30 with 80 Nm torque >
> > (Autohelms and all the others have only 50 Nm)I mounted my ancient >
> > autohelm 4000 again which is still good for light winds and > motoring,
> > and invested in a Voyager windvane. Costs a few $ and you

have

a


> contraption on your transom, but it really works in strong

winds

and

is a beautiful piece of engineering.



Regards,

mike

UK F33 #033 Tumlare





— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Frank Minelli
<myslo@y…>

wrote:

Thomas,



After much fooling around with drive belts and such,
which I
found

to be woefully inadequate for the Freddom 33, I installed
an


electerically driven hyraulic system.



I had started out with a Autohelm 3000, which was
advertised
as


being good up to 18000 lbs displacement.



All these claims are just so much hype. Go with the
strongest


surest system you can find. (I put mine together from
various


suppliers such as Graingers)



Thomas Carlton <Finesse@s…> wrote:

I would appreciate thoughts on a choice for a new
autopilot
for a
F-

33.

Thanks.

Thomas



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    2

    Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)

    One of my AutoPilots units outputs is “solenoid”. This output is “on” whenever the drive unit is “engaged”. The by-pass valve is connected to this output. The valve is a separate item since in a pure hydraulic system, it is not needed. In the design process I looked at manual valves and mechanically dis-connecting the cylinder, but the valve worked out to be the best compromise though it does draw power when the auto pilot is driving.

    Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: mike_c_f35ck
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:08 AM
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Bypass valve question
    Brian:Thanks for your explanation. It’s what I almost designed for my F33, except the cylinder is not connected to a quadrant (we don’t have one) but in parallel to the steel rod that connects steering column and rudder arm. What I still like to know: how do you operate your bypass valve is you disengage your autopilot? I suppose it’s electrically operated, and perhaps automatically operated by your autopilot? Or do you have a pump with integrated bypass valve?Cheers,mike— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil” <sailordude@b…> wrote:> Mike:> I have a stock cable,pulley,quadrant system with the quadrant mounted in a recess in the cockpit floor, exposed to weather and sea from backwash up the cockpit drains. The cylinder attaches to the (stock) quadrant and has a by-pass (normally open) valve across the lines form the pump. The pump and by-pass valve are below decks. The added drag on the steering is not as bad as I had expected and if needed, I can disconnect the cylinder from the quadrant though that has not been necessary. There are lots of cylinders out there, stainless, bronze and other. Often they are exposed to rather harsh environment of dirt, mud and otherwise. > > So I end up with combined standard cable and a mostly independent hydraulic, sharing only the quadrant on the way to the rudder. So far the cylinder is weathering just fine. I do rinse the cylinder with fresh water when available.> > I can take a photo and send it directly to you if you wish.> > Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com> 206-818-3203 sailordude@b…> 1735 112th Ave. N.E.> Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mike_c_f35ck > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:14 AM> Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard rudder post> > > Brian,> > Question to you: > > How do you combine mechanical steering and a hydraulic autopilot? Or > do you have hydraulic steering on you F44? In that case it’s easy to > combine the two (steering and autopilot on one hydraulic cylinder.> > I unsuccesfully tried to figure out a system to combine > rack/pinion/rod steering with a hydraulic autopilot actuator > cylinder, but could not find a solution for a quick release of the > hydraulic cylinder or a waterproof, easily operated bypass valve > close to the cylinder(out in the open, therefore). I don’t want to > have to push oil in the autopilot actuator cylinder up and down while > hand steering.> > Now i’m happy with my voyager windvane steering combined with an old > AH4000.> > mike> > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil” > <sailordude@b…> wrote:> > I am not familiar with the F33, but on my F44, I installed Autohelm > 7001+ 400G with hydraulic cylinder attached to the quadrant, which is > exposed to weather and will see sea water at higher speeds and > following seas. In 6 months, no problems and it seems to handle the > steering problem well. Of course, there is a learning curve and > tuning issues but the auto learn feature really helps. The > documentation could be a little better with a little better > explanation of how different adjustments work.> > > > If you want further stuff and a photo of the cylinder, let me know > at the below address.> > > > Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com> > 206-818-3203 sailordude@b…> > 1735 112th Ave. N.E.> > Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: mike_c_f35ck > > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:48 AM> > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard rudder post> > > > > > Tom, Ketch 22 has an inboard rudder post and quadrant, UNlike the > F33 > > where all rudder parts are above decks, and largely open to sea > > water. An inboard pilot as the AH6000 cannot be mounted there. > The > > parts are not corrosion proof or water tight - unfortunately.> > > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Ketch 22 > <ketch_22@e…> > > wrote:> > > Not sure about the F33, but I have an Autohelm 6000 on Ketch > 22, an > > F39. Just sailed from California to Hawaii and back over a 2 > month > > period. The Autohelm was on very close to 24 hours a day, in all > > different kinds of conditions, including 35 knot winds and 16 > foot > > seas. It worked fine under all conditions. > > > > > > Tom> > > Ketch 22> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: mike_c_f35ck <mike_c_f35ck@y…>> > > Sent: Aug 24, 2004 1:31 AM> > > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 Autopilot> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, all these claims about torque are maybe true, but not > on a > >
    > > > real sea with wave action against our barndoor rudder. After >
    > > > continuous trouble with my then new Simrad WP30 with 80 Nm > torque > >
    > > > (Autohelms and all the others have only 50 Nm)I mounted my > ancient > >
    > > > autohelm 4000 again which is still good for light winds and > > motoring,
    > > > and invested in a Voyager windvane. Costs a few $ and you have > a > >
    > > > contraption on your transom, but it really works in strong > winds > > and
    > > > is a beautiful piece of engineering.
    > > >
    > > > Regards,
    > > > mike
    > > > UK F33 #033 Tumlare
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Frank Minelli > > <myslo@y…>
    > > > wrote:
    > > > > Thomas,
    > > > >
    > > > > After much fooling around with drive belts and such, which I > > found
    > > > to be woefully inadequate for the Freddom 33, I installed an >
    > > > electerically driven hyraulic system.
    > > > >
    > > > > I had started out with a Autohelm 3000, which was advertised > as > >
    > > > being good up to 18000 lbs displacement.
    > > > >
    > > > > All these claims are just so much hype. Go with the > strongest > >
    > > > surest system you can find. (I put mine together from various >
    > > > suppliers such as Graingers)
    > > > >
    > > > > Thomas Carlton <Finesse@s…> wrote:
    > > > > I would appreciate thoughts on a choice for a new autopilot > for a > > F-
    > > > 33.
    > > > > Thanks.
    > > > > Thomas
    > > > >
    > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
    > > > >
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    > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > > > > > href=“http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/">http://groups.> > yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/
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    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of > >
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    3

    Posted by mike_c_f35ck (mike_c_f35ck@…>)

    …so if you put your autopilot in standby, the bypass valve opens
    automatically?

    mike

    — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil”
    <sailordude@b…> wrote:

    One of my AutoPilots units outputs is “solenoid”. This output
    is “on” whenever the drive unit is “engaged”. The by-pass valve is
    connected to this output. The valve is a separate item since in a
    pure hydraulic system, it is not needed. In the design process I
    looked at manual valves and mechanically dis-connecting the cylinder,
    but the valve worked out to be the best compromise though it does
    draw power when the auto pilot is driving.

    Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com
    206-818-3203 sailordude@b…
    1735 112th Ave. N.E.
    Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: mike_c_f35ck
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:08 AM
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Bypass valve question

    Brian:

    Thanks for your explanation. It’s what I almost designed for my
    F33,
    except the cylinder is not connected to a quadrant (we don’t have
    one) but in parallel to the steel rod that connects steering
    column
    and rudder arm.

    What I still like to know: how do you operate your bypass valve
    is
    you disengage your autopilot? I suppose it’s electrically
    operated,
    and perhaps automatically operated by your autopilot? Or do you
    have
    a pump with integrated bypass valve?

    Cheers,
    mike

    — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil”
    <sailordude@b…> wrote:

    Mike:
    I have a stock cable,pulley,quadrant system with the quadrant
    mounted in a recess in the cockpit floor, exposed to weather and
    sea
    from backwash up the cockpit drains. The cylinder attaches to
    the
    (stock) quadrant and has a by-pass (normally open) valve across
    the
    lines form the pump. The pump and by-pass valve are below
    decks.
    The added drag on the steering is not as bad as I had expected
    and if
    needed, I can disconnect the cylinder from the quadrant though
    that
    has not been necessary. There are lots of cylinders out there,
    stainless, bronze and other. Often they are exposed to rather
    harsh
    environment of dirt, mud and otherwise.

    So I end up with combined standard cable and a mostly
    independent
    hydraulic, sharing only the quadrant on the way to the rudder.
    So
    far the cylinder is weathering just fine. I do rinse the
    cylinder
    with fresh water when available.

    I can take a photo and send it directly to you if you wish.

    Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com
    206-818-3203 sailordude@b…
    1735 112th Ave. N.E.
    Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: mike_c_f35ck
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:14 AM
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard rudder
    post

    Brian,

    Question to you:

    How do you combine mechanical steering and a hydraulic
    autopilot?
    Or
    do you have hydraulic steering on you F44? In that case it’s
    easy
    to
    combine the two (steering and autopilot on one hydraulic
    cylinder.

    I unsuccesfully tried to figure out a system to combine
    rack/pinion/rod steering with a hydraulic autopilot actuator
    cylinder, but could not find a solution for a quick release
    of
    the
    hydraulic cylinder or a waterproof, easily operated bypass
    valve
    close to the cylinder(out in the open, therefore). I don’t
    want
    to
    have to push oil in the autopilot actuator cylinder up and
    down
    while
    hand steering.

    Now i’m happy with my voyager windvane steering combined with
    an
    old
    AH4000.

    mike

    — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil”
    <sailordude@b…> wrote:

    I am not familiar with the F33, but on my F44, I installed
    Autohelm
    7001+ 400G with hydraulic cylinder attached to the quadrant,
    which is
    exposed to weather and will see sea water at higher speeds
    and
    following seas. In 6 months, no problems and it seems to
    handle
    the
    steering problem well. Of course, there is a learning curve
    and
    tuning issues but the auto learn feature really helps. The
    documentation could be a little better with a little better
    explanation of how different adjustments work.

    If you want further stuff and a photo of the cylinder, let
    me
    know
    at the below address.

    Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com
    206-818-3203 sailordude@b…
    1735 112th Ave. N.E.
    Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: mike_c_f35ck
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:48 AM
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 has an outboard
    rudder
    post

    Tom, Ketch 22 has an inboard rudder post and quadrant,
    UNlike
    the
    F33
    where all rudder parts are above decks, and largely open
    to
    sea
    water. An inboard pilot as the AH6000 cannot be mounted
    there.
    The
    parts are not corrosion proof or water tight -
    unfortunately.

    — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Ketch 22
    <ketch_22@e…>
    wrote:

    Not sure about the F33, but I have an Autohelm 6000 on
    Ketch
    22, an
    F39. Just sailed from California to Hawaii and back over
    a 2
    month
    period. The Autohelm was on very close to 24 hours a
    day, in
    all
    different kinds of conditions, including 35 knot winds
    and 16
    foot
    seas. It worked fine under all conditions.

    Tom
    Ketch 22

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mike_c_f35ck <mike_c_f35ck@y…>
    Sent: Aug 24, 2004 1:31 AM
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F-33 Autopilot

    I agree, all these claims about torque are maybe true,

    but

    not

    on a


    > real sea with wave action against our barndoor rudder.

    After


    > > continuous trouble with my then new Simrad WP30 with 80

    Nm

    torque


    > (Autohelms and all the others have only 50 Nm)I mounted

    my

    ancient


    > autohelm 4000 again which is still good for light winds

    and

    motoring,

    and invested in a Voyager windvane. Costs a few $ and
    you
    have
    a


    contraption on your transom, but it really works in
    strong
    winds
    and

    is a beautiful piece of engineering.



    Regards,

    mike

    UK F33 #033 Tumlare





    — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Frank Minelli
    <myslo@y…>

    wrote:

    Thomas,



    After much fooling around with drive belts and such,
    which I
    found

    to be woefully inadequate for the Freddom 33, I
    installed
    an


    electerically driven hyraulic system.



    I had started out with a Autohelm 3000, which was
    advertised
    as


    being good up to 18000 lbs displacement.



    All these claims are just so much hype. Go with the
    strongest


    surest system you can find. (I put mine together from
    various


    suppliers such as Graingers)



    Thomas Carlton <Finesse@s…> wrote:

    I would appreciate thoughts on a choice for a new
    autopilot
    for a
    F-

    33.

    Thanks.

    Thomas



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    4

    Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)

    Mike
    Yes, the valve opens and the boat steers with the slight drag of the friction in the cylinder added to the system. It has not been a problem. The engage or dis-engage process takes about 1/2 second.

    Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: mike_c_f35ck
    To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 1:23 PM
    Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Bypass valve question
    …so if you put your autopilot in standby, the bypass valve opens automatically?mike — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil” <sailordude@b…> wrote:> One of my AutoPilots units outputs is “solenoid”. This output is “on” whenever the drive unit is “engaged”. The by-pass valve is connected to this output. The valve is a separate item since in a pure hydraulic system, it is not needed. In the design process I looked at manual valves and mechanically dis-connecting the cylinder, but the valve worked out to be the best compromise though it does draw power when the auto pilot is driving.> > Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com> 206-818-3203 sailordude@b…> 1735 112th Ave. N.E.> Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mike_c_f35ck > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:08 AM> Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Bypass valve question> > > Brian:> > Thanks for your explanation. It’s what I almost designed for my F33, > except the cylinder is not connected to a quadrant (we don’t have > one) but in parallel to the steel rod that connects steering column > and rudder arm. > > What I still like to know: how do you operate your bypass valve is > you disengage your autopilot? I suppose it’s electrically operated, > and perhaps automatically operated by your autopilot? Or do you have > a pump with integrated bypass valve?> > Cheers,> mike> > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brian Guptil” > <sailordude@b…> wrote:> > Mike:> > I have a stock cable,pulley,quadrant system with the quadrant > mounted in a recess in the cockpit floor, exposed to weather and sea > from backwash up the cockpit drains. The cylinder attaches to the > (stock) quadrant and has a by-pass (normally open) valve across the > lines form the pump. The pump and by-pass valve are below decks. > The added drag on the steering is not as bad as I had expected and if > needed, I can disconnect the cylinder from the quadrant though that > has not been necessary. There are lots of cylinders out there, > stainless, bronze and other. Often they are exposed to rather harsh > environment of dirt, mud and otherwise. > > > > So I end up with combined standard cable and a mostly independent > hydraulic, sharing only the quadrant on the way to the rudder. So > far the cylinder is weathering just fine. I do rinse the cylinder > with fresh water when available.> > > > I can take a photo and send it directly to you if you wish.> > > > Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com> > 206-818-3203 sailordude@b…> > 1735 112th Ave. N.E.> > Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706