F 30 high wind sail plan

Posted by mike cunningham (seychellois_lib@…>)

I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California Delta, SF
Bay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to be
venturing out of the bay in coming months with the
intention of new adventure and increasing my cruising
experience. I do not race.

My sailing grounds provide me with an opportunity to
routinely experience sustained winds of 25 to 30 Kts
with occasional gusts to 35 or 40 on “special” days.
I would like to plan strategies for such winds at sea.

I am usually to the 3rd reef and jib when winds reach
25Kts. After a lot of trial and error I’ve learned to
depower the main through a good, flat, reef and use of
the traveller. However, when the wind gets up above
30Kts. I’m feeling overpowered.

In the bay, 30Kts is still easily sailable if you can
properly depower so I have two questions of more
experienced cruisers.

  1. At sea is it reasonable to continue productive
    sailing to weather in winds in excess of 30Kts? At
    what point does sea state and windage overcome
    whatever sail configuration you establish? I know this
    is very dependant upon the particular boat, so assume
    a Freedom 30.

  2. If the answer to 1. is yes. Where do you go from a
    properly triple reefed and trimmed main and jib (I
    only have three reefing points on the Harrstik main)?
    I figure I could a. add a fourth reefing point which
    would leave a hanky up there b. Drop the main
    altogether which, in experiments, does not work well
    at all - boat doesn’t sail to weather on jib alone or
    c. drop the jib - again, experiments demonststate that
    this is good for a few additional knots of wind but
    badly hurts windward performance. Because the jib is
    so small it doesn’t reduce sail area much.






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Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)

Mike,

I also sail SF Bay and the California coast on my Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch. Typically, when the wind is approaching 30 kts offshore the sea conditions make it very difficult to make any headway to weather. You will find that all you are accomplishing is beating yourself, and the boat, to death. 30 kts of wind and head seas can be very dangerous to your equipment, and most cruising boats willnot do very well in those conditions, unless you are sailing off the wind. These are the kind of conditions that I usually motor-sail to windward, to make any way. A storm jib and tri-sail can keep you more comfortable, but the seas alone will pretty much keep your progress to a minimum. A four reef would be a waste of your money. I’m not aware of any boats that have four reefs in the main. And I’ve sailed the Bay and coast for over 30 years. Cruising boats just don’t go offshore in these conditions on purpose. But you should be prepared for these conditions in case you find conditions worsening. Then you try to run to a safe harbor.

Jay
F-40 “Fantasy”

----- Original Message -----
From: mike cunningham
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] F 30 high wind sail plan


I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California Delta, SFBay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to beventuring out of the bay in coming months with theintention of new adventure and increasing my cruisingexperience. I do not race.My sailing grounds provide me with an opportunity toroutinely experience sustained winds of 25 to 30 Ktswith occasional gusts to 35 or 40 on “special” days.I would like to plan strategies for such winds at sea.I am usually to the 3rd reef and jib when winds reach25Kts. After a lot of trial and error I’ve learned todepower the main through a good, flat, reef and use ofthe traveller. However, when the wind gets up above30Kts. I’m feeling overpowered. In the bay, 30Kts is still easily sailable if you canproperly depower so I have two questions of moreexperienced cruisers.1. At sea is it reasonable to continue productivesailing to weather in winds in excess of 30Kts? Atwhat point does sea state and windage overcomewhatever sail configuration you establish? I know thisis very dependant upon the particular boat, so assumea Freedom 30.2. If the answer to 1. is yes. Where do you go from aproperly triple reefed and trimmed main and jib (Ionly have three reefing points on the Harrstik main)?I figure I could a. add a fourth reefing point whichwould leave a hanky up there b. Drop the mainaltogether which, in experiments, does not work wellat all - boat doesn’t sail to weather on jib alone orc. drop the jib - again, experiments demonststate thatthis is good for a few additional knots of wind butbadly hurts windward performance. Because the jib isso small it doesn’t reduce sail area much.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Posted by mike cunningham (seychellois_lib@…>)

Jay,

That’s pretty much the answer I was expecting.
Sounds like my options are pretty limited

run off the wind with minimal or no sail
minimize sail and motorsail
Find shelter










— Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:

Mike,

I also sail SF Bay and the California coast on my
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch. Typically, when the wind is
approaching 30 kts offshore the sea conditions make
it very difficult to make any headway to weather.
You will find that all you are accomplishing is
beating yourself, and the boat, to death. 30 kts of
wind and head seas can be very dangerous to your
equipment, and most cruising boats willnot do very
well in those conditions, unless you are sailing off
the wind. These are the kind of conditions that I
usually motor-sail to windward, to make any way. A
storm jib and tri-sail can keep you more
comfortable, but the seas alone will pretty much
keep your progress to a minimum. A four reef would
be a waste of your money. I’m not aware of any boats
that have four reefs in the main. And I’ve sailed
the Bay and coast for over 30 years. Cruising boats
just don’t go offshore in these conditions on
purpose. But you should be prepared for these
conditions in case you find conditions worsening.
Then you try to run to a safe harbor.

Jay
F-40 “Fantasy”
----- Original Message -----
From: mike cunningham
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] F 30 high wind sail
plan

I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California
Delta, SF
Bay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to be
venturing out of the bay in coming months with the
intention of new adventure and increasing my
cruising
experience. I do not race.

My sailing grounds provide me with an opportunity
to
routinely experience sustained winds of 25 to 30
Kts
with occasional gusts to 35 or 40 on “special”
days.
I would like to plan strategies for such winds at
sea.

I am usually to the 3rd reef and jib when winds
reach
25Kts. After a lot of trial and error I’ve learned
to
depower the main through a good, flat, reef and
use of
the traveller. However, when the wind gets up
above
30Kts. I’m feeling overpowered.

In the bay, 30Kts is still easily sailable if you
can
properly depower so I have two questions of more
experienced cruisers.

  1. At sea is it reasonable to continue productive
    sailing to weather in winds in excess of 30Kts? At
    what point does sea state and windage overcome
    whatever sail configuration you establish? I know
    this
    is very dependant upon the particular boat, so
    assume
    a Freedom 30.

  2. If the answer to 1. is yes. Where do you go
    from a
    properly triple reefed and trimmed main and jib (I
    only have three reefing points on the Harrstik
    main)?
    I figure I could a. add a fourth reefing point
    which
    would leave a hanky up there b. Drop the main
    altogether which, in experiments, does not work
    well
    at all - boat doesn’t sail to weather on jib alone
    or
    c. drop the jib - again, experiments demonststate
    that
    this is good for a few additional knots of wind
    but
    badly hurts windward performance. Because the jib
    is
    so small it doesn’t reduce sail area much.


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Posted by Greg Prior (gaprior@…>)

Hi Mike-

I have a Freedom 25 with a round mast and camber spar jib, and sail out of Owl
Harbor
Marina on Seven Mile Slough, and sail mostly in the San Joaquin River. I’m
curious where
you are in the Delta. I’ll keep an eye out for you. You can stop by and see us
some
weekend. We are members of the Andreas Cove YC, just 4 slips from our boat, so
there is
a nice place we can sit and talk. We won’t be at the boat this weekend, but
most others we
should be there.

Sorry, no help on the 30+ kt question, but I have the same question on my boat
(with only
2 reefs).

-Greg

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, mike cunningham <seychellois_lib@…>
wrote:

I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California Delta, SF
Bay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to be
venturing out of the bay in coming months with the
intention of new adventure and increasing my cruising
experience. I do not race.
------------------ snip ----------------------

Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)


Actually, Mike, those of us who sail on the Chesapeake and consider 15 kts a gift from God during July and August have very little sympathy for your problem! (Just kidding.)

Al

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike cunninghamSent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:45 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F 30 high wind sail plan

Jay,That’s pretty much the answer I was expecting. Sounds like my options are pretty limitedrun off the wind with minimal or no sailminimize sail and motorsail Find shelter— Jay Glen <svfantasy@myyacht.com> wrote:> Mike,> > I also sail SF Bay and the California coast on my> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch. Typically, when the wind is> approaching 30 kts offshore the sea conditions make> it very difficult to make any headway to weather.> You will find that all you are accomplishing is> beating yourself, and the boat, to death. 30 kts of> wind and head seas can be very dangerous to your> equipment, and most cruising boats willnot do very> well in those conditions, unless you are sailing off> the wind. These are the kind of conditions that I> usually motor-sail to windward, to make any way. A> storm jib and tri-sail can keep you more> comfortable, but the seas alone will pretty much> keep your progress to a minimum. A four reef would> be a waste of your money. I’m not aware of any boats> that have four reefs in the main. And I’ve sailed> the Bay and coast for over 30 years. Cruising boats> just don’t go offshore in these conditions on> purpose. But you should be prepared for these> conditions in case you find conditions worsening.> Then you try to run to a safe harbor.> > Jay> F-40 “Fantasy”> ----- Original Message ----- > From: mike cunningham > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:21 AM> Subject: [freedomyachts2003] F 30 high wind sail> plan> > > I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California> Delta, SF> Bay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to be> venturing out of the bay in coming months with the> intention of new adventure and increasing my> cruising> experience. I do not race.> > My sailing grounds provide me with an opportunity> to> routinely experience sustained winds of 25 to 30> Kts> with occasional gusts to 35 or 40 on “special”> days.> I would like to plan strategies for such winds at> sea.> > I am usually to the 3rd reef and jib when winds> reach> 25Kts. After a lot of trial and error I’ve learned> to> depower the main through a good, flat, reef and> use of> the traveller. However, when the wind gets up> above> 30Kts. I’m feeling overpowered. > > In the bay, 30Kts is still easily sailable if you> can> properly depower so I have two questions of more> experienced cruisers.> > 1. At sea is it reasonable to continue productive> sailing to weather in winds in excess of 30Kts? At> what point does sea state and windage overcome> whatever sail configuration you establish? I know> this> is very dependant upon the particular boat, so> assume> a Freedom 30.> > 2. If the answer to 1. is yes. Where do you go> from a> properly triple reefed and trimmed main and jib (I> only have three reefing points on the Harrstik> main)?> I figure I could a. add a fourth reefing point> which> would leave a hanky up there b. Drop the main> altogether which, in experiments, does not work> well> at all - boat doesn’t sail to weather on jib alone> or> c. drop the jib - again, experiments demonststate> that> this is good for a few additional knots of wind> but> badly hurts windward performance. Because the jib> is> so small it doesn’t reduce sail area much.> > __________________________________________________> Do You Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam> protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Posted by Folia Grace (fgrace2000@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, mike cunningham
<seychellois_lib@…> wrote:
Mike,

I sailed a F36 on the bay and coastal. Monterey, Drakes that kind of
stuff. Out the gate is a whole different story, in most cases much
lighter winds than on the bay. Most we had seen is high teens and
low 20s. Lots of the time oppsite problem, little wind. Yes you
should be prepaired for high winds, but in most cases it will not be
a problem. Check the buoy reports on line for wind and sea state. If
it is blowing like hell, or real sloppy, stay home. If not, most of
the time, go for it. You will have a blast!

Regards,

Fred

I own a standard Mull 30 and sail California Delta, SF
Bay. I almost always singlehand. I am going to be
venturing out of the bay in coming months with the
intention of new adventure and increasing my cruising
experience. I do not race.

My sailing grounds provide me with an opportunity to
routinely experience sustained winds of 25 to 30 Kts
with occasional gusts to 35 or 40 on “special” days.
I would like to plan strategies for such winds at sea.

I am usually to the 3rd reef and jib when winds reach
25Kts. After a lot of trial and error I’ve learned to
depower the main through a good, flat, reef and use of
the traveller. However, when the wind gets up above
30Kts. I’m feeling overpowered.

In the bay, 30Kts is still easily sailable if you can
properly depower so I have two questions of more
experienced cruisers.

  1. At sea is it reasonable to continue productive
    sailing to weather in winds in excess of 30Kts? At
    what point does sea state and windage overcome
    whatever sail configuration you establish? I know this
    is very dependant upon the particular boat, so assume
    a Freedom 30.

  2. If the answer to 1. is yes. Where do you go from a
    properly triple reefed and trimmed main and jib (I
    only have three reefing points on the Harrstik main)?
    I figure I could a. add a fourth reefing point which
    would leave a hanky up there b. Drop the main
    altogether which, in experiments, does not work well
    at all - boat doesn’t sail to weather on jib alone or
    c. drop the jib - again, experiments demonststate that
    this is good for a few additional knots of wind but
    badly hurts windward performance. Because the jib is
    so small it doesn’t reduce sail area much.


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