Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Greetings again,
I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there and
started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well.
Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what I’ve
been able to glean from online, the early days of production were
something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our
boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem with,
but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the
contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch that’s
got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group of
solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or
replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the
beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that
culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the deck
then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire
from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are
anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the
other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid running
up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the
mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board was
fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is
obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the
pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could happen
in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is
hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently
barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of
barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we are
anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but
that’s a total other story.
George
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
George,
If you really want to, you can remove the hinge pin by grinding away
the laminate on both sides of the hull. If on the outside it’s not
clearly visible where the pin is, it takes some measuring and
guessing where it is. Perpaps you can have a new CB made? cast from
iron or layed up with glass and resin, and filled with lead pellets?
You can also have a new pin machined. In the UK built Freedoms that
pin is a 4" stainless cylinder.
good luck, and I know where you are at, I’m rushing to complete an
F44 restoration before August 6… (yes, this year).
Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Greetings again,
I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there
and
started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well.
Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what
I’ve
been able to glean from online, the early days of production were
something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our
boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem
with,
but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the
contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch that’s
got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group
of
solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or
replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the
beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that
culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the
deck
then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire
from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are
anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the
other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid
running
up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the
mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board
was
fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is
obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the
pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could
happen
in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is
hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently
barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of
barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we
are
anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but
that’s a total other story.
George
Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Building a new centerboard is looking more and more like what’s going
to happen here. The old iron centerboard has a lot of side to side
play and I’m just really worried about the hole in the board being
wallowed out.
I’ve had to do this before on a little smaller scale. I refurbished
(more like resurrected) a Nimble 30 that had been a hurricane Opal
victim. I built a rudder and centerboard for her from scratch. Here
we go again.
In fact I just now had the “Darling I’ll have to build us a new
centerboard” conversation and it went quite well actually. 
I’ll
keep photos and journal for anyone coming behind me of course.
George
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
George,
Good luck, and keep us posted on how you go about it. I’d like to
join your ‘how to build a centreboard’ course.
What’s your choice of materials going to be? Have it cast in iron
is probably the quickest solution, but maybe not the best way.
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Building a new centerboard is looking more and more like what’s
going
to happen here. The old iron centerboard has a lot of side to side
play and I’m just really worried about the hole in the board being
wallowed out.
I’ve had to do this before on a little smaller scale. I
refurbished
(more like resurrected) a Nimble 30 that had been a hurricane Opal
victim. I built a rudder and centerboard for her from scratch.
Here
we go again.
In fact I just now had the “Darling I’ll have to build us a new
centerboard” conversation and it went quite well actually.
I’ll
keep photos and journal for anyone coming behind me of course.
George
Posted by david982242 (davidknhead@…>)
Have undertaken such a task before on an old gaffer with a huge 3mtr
plate, and the only fast/logical choice is a gas cut steel plate. You
need a reasonable pattern to act as a guide for the flame cutter, but
that can be WBP plywood, as once used is disposed. The flame cut
edges can be ground fair with an angle grinder, and the hole can be
drilled with a magnetic clamp-on mill. The thickness can be
determined from the weight you want to achieve as well as the gap in
the existing hull slot. A point though is that the board need not be
the same thickness all the way down. The upper part, when the board
is down, can be increased on one/both sides to create a thicker area
there to stop the slop! Don’t be afraid of a slight offset as the
boat will not perform any the less. Steel can be galvanized with hot
zinc once finished and will last for years in this condition. If
speed is the need I suggest that this year you simply rub down as
best as possible and use a zinc paint until the boat is hauled again
and the board removed and shotblast/galvanized. You will not do this
job again in your lifetime if done like this! Do not be afraid of
thickness or bending. Centreboards are not highly stressed items and
10mm upwards will remain very rigid at the sailing angles of heel
expected on cruising boats.
Greetings again,
I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there
and
started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well.
Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what
I’ve
been able to glean from online, the early days of production were
something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our
boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem
with,
but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the
contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch that’s
got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group of
solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or
replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the
beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that
culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the
deck
then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire
from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are
anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the
other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid
running
up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the
mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board
was
fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is
obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the
pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could
happen
in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is
hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently
barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of
barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we
are
anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but
that’s a total other story.
George
Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
I can make a board very strong and very easy to make using foam core/epoxy composite. This is how I did it with my Nimble 30. This produces a board that is strong, water tight and has some hydrodynamic shape. Also I can fit it to the slot to cut down on slop yes but also to cut down on the knocking noise at anchor. To add weight is purely simple… Once the basic board is made and before encapsulating it I’ll drill holes through it with a hole saw and insert lead slugs that I can cast to fit the holes perfectly, then epoxy them in. The steel plate idea is also an attractive one, I have the oxy/acetylene torch for that but I’d have to rent bigger tanks… hmmmm This whole thing might hinge on what I can find at the scrap yard… 
The yard we are in is dismal. We will launch her the way she is and haul again when we are ready for action. Georgedavid982242
<davidknhead@…> wrote: Have undertaken such a task before on an old gaffer with a huge 3mtr plate, and the only fast/logical choice is a gas cut steel plate. You need a reasonable pattern to act as a guide for the flame cutter, but that can be WBP plywood, as once used is disposed. The flame cut edges can be ground fair with an angle grinder, and the hole can be drilled with a magnetic clamp-on mill. The thickness can be determined from the weight you want to achieve as well as the gap in the existing
hull slot. A point though is that the board need not be the same thickness all the way down. The upper part, when the board is down, can be increased on one/both sides to create a thicker area there to stop the slop! Don’t be afraid of a slight offset as the boat will not perform any the less. Steel can be galvanized with hot zinc once finished and will last for years in this condition. If speed is the need I suggest that this year you simply rub down as best as possible and use a zinc paint until the boat is hauled again and the board removed and shotblast/galvanized. You will not do this job again in your lifetime if done like this! Do not be afraid of thickness or bending. Centreboards are not highly stressed items and 10mm upwards will remain very rigid at the sailing angles of heel expected on cruising boats. - In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman” <thatboatguy2@…> wrote: > > Greetings again, > > I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there and > started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well. > > Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what I’ve > been able to glean from online, the early days of production were > something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our > boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem with, > but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the > contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch that’s > got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group of > solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the >
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or > replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the > beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that > culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the deck > then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire > from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are > anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the > other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid running > up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the > mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board was > fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is > obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the > pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about
what could happen > in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is > hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently > barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of > barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we are > anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but > that’s a total other story. > > George >
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Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
I’d like to add my 2cts since I’m still technically a Freedom 40
owner. I don’t know when they switched, but the later F40s don’t have
a weighted board at all. It is much more like the shaped, foam-core
board you describe. Bright Star’s board purchase is nothing more than
a bi-directional winch mounted on top of the cabin. It runs to a
sheave ahead of the mizzen, down a tube into the centerboard trunk,
and connects to the trailing edge of the board. I can raise and lower
the board with two fingers on the winch handle when the boat is in
the water, and it is easy to control out of the water as well.
I don’t know if, to compensate, they put more lead in the keel, but I
would suspect that if you were to build the foam-core board, you
aren’t going to lose too much in vessel stability, while gaining
quite a lot in peace of mind, especially considering all the extra
lifting hardware you have in place now. Someone on the other board
recently called the Freedom 40 an ‘old heavy boat,’ but Bright Star
displaces 20,000 lbs at 40’ long. In contrast, the 45 displaces
somewhere close to 30,000 for just an extra 5’. I’ve always thought
that Bright Star was a pretty nimble boat, especially in the
superlight air that drives everyone else nuts.
Your idea for a foam-sandwiched board is definitely worth taking a
look at. It will provide you with decent anti-roll control off the
wind, “pointing” ability upwind, and probably won’t affect your
stability much at all.
Lance
Bright Star
Glory
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
Greetings again,
I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there
and
started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well.
Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what
I’ve
been able to glean from online, the early days of production were
something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our
boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem
with,
but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the
contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch that’s
got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group of
solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or
replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the
beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that
culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the
deck
then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire
from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are
anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the
other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid
running
up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the
mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board
was
fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is
obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the
pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could
happen
in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is
hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently
barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of
barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we
are
anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but
that’s a total other story.
George
Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
Thanks Lance. Our older 40 also has the aluminum spars. I’m thinking that the extra weight aloft might require some extra weight in the board. On my Nimble 30 they added a two inch lead shoe to the keel for the centerboard models. The board needed to be only heavy enough to sink itself. Bright Star is a beautiful boat. It’s an inspiration to us with Marquesa so neglected but rapidly on the mend. We can’t wait to sail her. I hope your still around when we get around to asking sailing directions for this rig. When have you been reefing, etc… I’m already noticing lead pigs in the bilges of Marquesa here and there glued in. I think our course of action will be to build the composite board making certain she can sink herself, then add weight later if we feel it’s needed. Now I need to find a short piece of schedule 80 4 inch stainless pipe someplace for the new pin… heh
heh Georgelance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote: I’d like to add my 2cts since I’m still technically a Freedom 40 owner. I don’t know when they switched, but the later F40s don’t have a weighted board at all. It is much more like the shaped, foam-core board you describe. Bright Star’s board purchase is nothing more than a bi-directional winch mounted on top of the cabin. It runs to a sheave ahead of the mizzen, down a tube into the centerboard trunk, and connects to the trailing edge of
the board. I can raise and lower the board with two fingers on the winch handle when the boat is in the water, and it is easy to control out of the water as well. I don’t know if, to compensate, they put more lead in the keel, but I would suspect that if you were to build the foam-core board, you aren’t going to lose too much in vessel stability, while gaining quite a lot in peace of mind, especially considering all the extra lifting hardware you have in place now. Someone on the other board recently called the Freedom 40 an ‘old heavy boat,’ but Bright Star displaces 20,000 lbs at 40’ long. In contrast, the 45 displaces somewhere close to 30,000 for just an extra 5’. I’ve always thought that Bright Star was a pretty nimble boat, especially in the superlight air that drives everyone else nuts. Your idea for a foam-sandwiched board is definitely worth taking a look at. It will provide you with
decent anti-roll control off the wind, “pointing” ability upwind, and probably won’t affect your stability much at all. Lance Bright Star Glory — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman” <thatboatguy2@…> wrote: > > Greetings again, > > I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit there and > started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well. > > Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what I’ve > been able to glean from online, the early days of production were > something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical. Our > boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem with, > but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the > contraption for raising and lowering
it is an electric winch that’s > got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a group of > solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the > electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired or > replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the > beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that > culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below the deck > then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the wire > from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys are > anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at the > other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid running > up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on the > mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their board was > fiberglass
with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is > obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on the > pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could happen > in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is > hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently > barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of > barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and we are > anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but > that’s a total other story. > > George >
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Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
I’m finding information that the iron centerboards may have weighed
upwards to two tons!!! In this case we might be back to the steel
plate method before it’s over with.
I have an email out to Eric W. Sponberg, a naval architect who was
involved with the building of the early Freedoms.
BTW Eric has some fantastic designs! One in build is totally awesome
dream-boat!
http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/index.htm
George
Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)
George
There’s no way your steel centerboard weighs 4000 lbs…
“Standard Weight” calculators for sheet steel are as follows
.2836 pounds per cubic inch
40.84 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness
In other words, it would require a 4’ x 8’ sheet of steel 3" thick to
produce a weight of 3,920 pounds…
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@…> wrote:
I’m finding information that the iron centerboards may have weighed
upwards to two tons!!! In this case we might be back to the steel
plate method before it’s over with.
I have an email out to Eric W. Sponberg, a naval architect who was
involved with the building of the early Freedoms.
BTW Eric has some fantastic designs! One in build is totally
awesome
dream-boat!
http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/index.htm
George
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Hi George,
thank you for the compliments about Bright Star. She was a great boat
when I bought her, and she’s only gotten better. Feel free to contact
me any time to talk cat ketches. I also, somewhere, have an email
from Bright Star’s PO with information about what wind ranges he
reefs, etc. It’s very informative - a little dated for Bright Star
because his main had three reef points and the new main has two -
albeit very deep.
I think you could be right about the difference in weight aloft, but
I also think your approach about building the lighter board and
adding weight if necessary is sound, and may prove to be unnecessary,
depending on the kinds of sailing you do.
On a side-note, when I brought our new F-45 up to Boston,
unfortunately the waterpump belt broke and we ended up being towed
in. My wife and I had been commenting on how bizarre it was to have a
sloop again, and have a jib to tend, especially after Bright Star. It
was all put into perspective when the Towboat US driver said of our
45, “I didn’t think they put jibs on catboats.” Go figure, cat
sloop indeed.
We are about halfway through stowing everything on Glory, and are
looking forward to our trip to Maine in August. If you see us up
there, don’t hesitate to hail us!
Lance
Glory
Bright Star
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Even is you decide to have a foam and glass CB, I would put some
weight in it to keep it down even when travelling at 10 kts of speed.
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:
I’d like to add my 2cts since I’m still technically a Freedom 40
owner. I don’t know when they switched, but the later F40s don’t
have
a weighted board at all. It is much more like the shaped, foam-
core
board you describe. Bright Star’s board purchase is nothing more
than
a bi-directional winch mounted on top of the cabin. It runs to a
sheave ahead of the mizzen, down a tube into the centerboard
trunk,
and connects to the trailing edge of the board. I can raise and
lower
the board with two fingers on the winch handle when the boat is in
the water, and it is easy to control out of the water as well.
I don’t know if, to compensate, they put more lead in the keel,
but I
would suspect that if you were to build the foam-core board, you
aren’t going to lose too much in vessel stability, while gaining
quite a lot in peace of mind, especially considering all the extra
lifting hardware you have in place now. Someone on the other board
recently called the Freedom 40 an ‘old heavy boat,’ but Bright
Star
displaces 20,000 lbs at 40’ long. In contrast, the 45 displaces
somewhere close to 30,000 for just an extra 5’. I’ve always
thought
that Bright Star was a pretty nimble boat, especially in the
superlight air that drives everyone else nuts.
Your idea for a foam-sandwiched board is definitely worth taking a
look at. It will provide you with decent anti-roll control off the
wind, “pointing” ability upwind, and probably won’t affect your
stability much at all.
Lance
Bright Star
Glory
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “George Huffman”
<thatboatguy2@> wrote:
Greetings again,
I began this discussion at the old list and have since quit
there
and
started up here so I’ll move the discussion as well.
Our new home Marquesa is hull number 7 built in 1977. From what
I’ve
been able to glean from online, the early days of production were
something of a time of experimentation. That’s only logical.
Our
boat has aluminum spars vs carbon fiber which I have no problem
with,
but what does concern me is our iron centerboard. Also the
contraption for raising and lowering it is an electric winch
that’s
got wire rope run through a system of pulleys. There are a
group of
solenoids and a micro switch for reversing and controlling the
electric winch. Although parts of this system have been repaired
or
replaced it really looks like it was installed this way from the
beginning. Wire rope from the centerboard raises up a tube that
culminates just aft of the mizzen mast and a few inches below
the
deck
then takes a 180 over pulleys and down to a block that has the
wire
from the winch run to it. That wire is also doubled. Pulleys
are
anchored to the deck above and keel below. One other owner at
the
other list told me that their boat had a half inch yacht braid
running
up through the deck in this location and could use the winch on
the
mizzen for raising/lowering the board. Also they said their
board
was
fiberglass with lead weighing approx 500 pounds. Our board is
obviously deteriorated but the key portion (where it hinges on
the
pin) can not be readily inspected. I’m worried about what could
happen
in the case of a catastrophic failure of that hinge. The boat is
hauled. We purchased her out of the water and we are currently
barrier coating the bottom after removing about 10 years worth of
barnacle growth. Drop dead date for launch is august 4th. and
we
are
anxious to make that as the yard management… well they suck but
that’s a total other story.
George