Posted by hjulbyhavn (hjulbyhavn@…>)
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Posted by Tricia Coldren (tcoldren@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “hjulbyhavn” <
hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Headroom is 5’.
Sorry I can’t answer the next question, but it’s a lot of fun to sail.
Tricia
Posted by hjulbyhavn (hjulbyhavn@…>)
Fun is what I don’t want to give up.
I have a 21 but could use a bit more back/head-room. It seems my body
is aging faster than the boat.
I have been told the 29 also sails “well” but it is a lot bulkier.
Hjulbyhavn
Posted by Pathmark (pathmark2000@…>)
Hi Tricia,
I am also curious about F25. It would me my first boat and I am especially interested in single-handing. Is this boat capable of overnight stays?
Regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Tricia Coldren
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F25 Questions
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “hjulbyhavn” <hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:> > > How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??> > How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)Headroom is 5’. Sorry I can’t answer the next question, but it’s a lot of fun to sail.Tricia
Posted by Tricia (tcoldren@…>)
Sure. My partner and I have stayed aboard for 10 day trips. It’s
easier on the back if you can remember to just sit down inside, and it
gets very small if it’s raining. We’re both pretty short, so berth
length isn’t an issue.
Tricia
On Thursday, Feb 24, 2005, at 05:56 US/Pacific, Pathmark wrote:
Hi Tricia,
I am also curious about F25. It would me my first boat and I am
especially interested in single-handing. Is this boat capable of
overnight stays?Regards,
Mike----- Original Message -----
From: Tricia Coldren
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F25 Questions— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “hjulbyhavn” <
hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Headroom is 5’.
Sorry I can’t answer the next question, but it’s a lot of fun to sail.
Tricia
<image.tiff>
<image.tiff>
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Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)
I have owned a shoal draft F21; a deep draft F21; and now a F25. The
F21s are great for single handed sailing, with The F21 deep draft
version better for racing; the 21s are nimble and capable of
exciting speed on reaches and downwind; the shoal draft version will
not sail upwind well enough for racing; both need the large staysail
upwind in light air; it also helps a lot upwind in heavier air and
waves, to keep the boat driving. My staysails–F21 and F25–are on a
roller furler, and very easy to handle, and to furl if the wind gets
too strong.
The F25 (apx 4000 lbs)is literally twice the boat of the 21s (apx
2000 lbs), but it sails about the same as the 21s, except that it’s
a bit faster and more stable and roomy; very fast on reaches and
runs, like the 21s; also requires more muscle to single hand.
Because of the increased size, the F25 is more expensive to own,
operate and equip–sails, rigging, hardware, bottom job, trailer,
etc. The 21 and 25 are very similar, but also very different because
of the comparative sizes. Depends on what you want. Both are well
made, sturdy, easy sailing, comfortable and stable, compared to
other boats their size. Hope this helps. Charlie
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “hjulbyhavn”
<hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Hi, The F 25 has 5’2" headroom in the salon. You can stand in the companionway and under the v-beth hatch. One just gets used to doing eveything sitting down. Better than some bigger boats I have been on, your head does nor come in contact with the side decks when sitting on the settees. Good sitting head room in the v-berth… Works rather well. Sue and I cruise on ours even though we downsized from a big cruising OI 41 to 25 for our Florida, Bahamas boat. " Scaramanga " is inordinately well equiped. Huge v berth ( 6 in thick) much more room than in our (sitting in a snowbank) CS 27. Propane stove, Engel freezer , airmarine wind machine, good electronics and a diesel. The Doyle stack pack main is a gem . Undo the zipper and up the sail and you are off. Reefing is a breeze all done under the dodger/bimini.
6.5 hp Yanmar will drive her to 6.7 kts cruise at 6. Strong ( 2 blade prop. ) head winds up a narrow canal will slow her to near half that. Sail ! Sue still cant get over tacking, just helm down, thats it !
Have fun, Andre.
hjulbyhavn <hjulbyhavn@…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
OOPS,
Lost all the sailing part in previous e-mail. F25 sails more like a J 24 than anything else. Very manoeverable in steep seas, zig zaging up the face and down the troughs. Did 7.6 kts today in 15 + kts of wind; GPS no current. Sailing angle, tack to tack is very good. Somewhat slower than a J boat to windward but I would challenge one singlehanding. Scaramanga’s staysail helps in this department and could possibly get there first in light air. 450 sq feet of sail, total. Have reached 8.6 kts broad reaching under full main in about 20 kts of wind. High fun factor. Autohelm 1000 takes care of her when required.
Andrehjulbyhavn <hjulbyhavn@…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by Pathmark (pathmark2000@…>)
Andre,
Thanks for the info. One more question about F25 vs regular sloop. Are there any strong reasons why the freedom is superior to a sloop rigged boat in regards to ease of sailing? Although I am leaning towards a freedom this design (cat rigged with carbon mast) is not exactly popular.
I am just looking for a little more confidence in my desire for a freedom design boat.
thanks,
mike
----- Original Message -----
From: andre laviolette
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] F25 Questions
Hi, The F 25 has 5’2" headroom in the salon. You can stand in the companionway and under the v-beth hatch. One just gets used to doing eveything sitting down. Better than some bigger boats I have been on, your head does nor come in contact with the side decks when sitting on the settees. Good sitting head room in the v-berth… Works rather well. Sue and I cruise on ours even though we downsized from a big cruising OI 41 to 25 for our Florida, Bahamas boat. " Scaramanga " is inordinately well equiped. Huge v berth ( 6 in thick) much more room than in our (sitting in a snowbank) CS 27. Propane stove, Engel freezer , airmarine wind machine, good electronics and a diesel. The Doyle stack pack main is a gem . Undo the zipper and up the sail and you are off. Reefing is a breeze all done under the dodger/bimini.
6.5 hp Yanmar will drive her to 6.7 kts cruise at 6. Strong ( 2 blade prop. ) head winds up a narrow canal will slow her to near half that. Sail ! Sue still cant get over tacking, just helm down, thats it !
Have fun, Andre.
hjulbyhavn <hjulbyhavn@…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Mike,
think outside the box. a “regular sloop” has an awful lot of
mechanics involved to keep the stick upright - any single failure,
and pretty much the whole rig comes down, or at the very least is
subjected to undue stress. And don’t forget about ‘tuning’ the rig,
the stress that chainplates and shrouds put on the hull form, etc,
etc. The simplicity of a freestanding stick in a hole is borne out
pretty substantially. Freedom’s been doing it that way since about
1977, Nonsuches are very popular with a freestanding rig, there are
some herreschoff designs that free-stand, the Finn olympic class
racing boat was actually part of the inspiration for the Freedom
rigs, and - dare I mention it - even Hunter has a freestanding rig
now, although I think the stick is aluminum. Is Catalina far behind?
I’d say the only disadvantages I’ve noticed on my Freedom to NOT
having shrouds is: a) nothing to hold on to going forward, and b) a
little more challenging to tie off slapping halyards at anchor. I’ll
take those disadvantages over a self-tending rig where really only
one thing can go wrong.
As most of the owners here will attest, Freedoms do a remarkable job
of space and rig management, getting the maximum from the
compromises that every boat designer/builder faces. Are there boats
that point better? go faster? have more room? Sure, but at what
price? Do you like the idea of dropping the lines from the dock and
taking off for an afternoon sail by yourself? I can do that in my
Freedom 40 with confidence because the rig is so easy to handle.
When I used to sail a Hunter, sure it was cool to grind a jib on
every tack, but to paraphrase Occum’s Razor, “simpler is generally
better.”
Of course, all the innovations in the world mean nothing if they’re
haphazardly put together. Although Freedoms of various vintages
suffer the ravages of other boats (leaking deck fittings, blisters,
and apparently too often leaking portlights), in my opinion, they’re
one of the best built boats you can actually afford to buy.
just my 2cts.
Lance
F40CK “Bright Star”
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Pathmark”
<pathmark2000@h…> wrote:
Andre,
Thanks for the info. One more question about F25 vs regular sloop.
Are there any strong reasons why the freedom is superior to a sloop
rigged boat in regards to ease of sailing? Although I am leaning
towards a freedom this design (cat rigged with carbon mast) is not
exactly popular.I am just looking for a little more confidence in my desire for a
freedom design boat.thanks,
mike
.
Posted by Pathmark (pathmark2000@…>)
Lance,
now that is the kind of endorsement I was looking. as an engineer, i find ockam’s razor a valuable rule.
thanks for the all the feedback.
mike
----- Original Message -----
From: lance_ryley
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: F25 Questions
Mike,think outside the box. a “regular sloop” has an awful lot of mechanics involved to keep the stick upright - any single failure, and pretty much the whole rig comes down, or at the very least is subjected to undue stress. And don’t forget about ‘tuning’ the rig, the stress that chainplates and shrouds put on the hull form, etc, etc. The simplicity of a freestanding stick in a hole is borne out pretty substantially. Freedom’s been doing it that way since about 1977, Nonsuches are very popular with a freestanding rig, there are some herreschoff designs that free-stand, the Finn olympic class racing boat was actually part of the inspiration for the Freedom rigs, and - dare I mention it - even Hunter has a freestanding rig now, although I think the stick is aluminum. Is Catalina far behind?I’d say the only disadvantages I’ve noticed on my Freedom to NOT having shrouds is: a) nothing to hold on to going forward, and b) a little more challenging to tie off slapping halyards at anchor. I’ll take those disadvantages over a self-tending rig where really only one thing can go wrong.As most of the owners here will attest, Freedoms do a remarkable job of space and rig management, getting the maximum from the compromises that every boat designer/builder faces. Are there boats that point better? go faster? have more room? Sure, but at what price? Do you like the idea of dropping the lines from the dock and taking off for an afternoon sail by yourself? I can do that in my Freedom 40 with confidence because the rig is so easy to handle. When I used to sail a Hunter, sure it was cool to grind a jib on every tack, but to paraphrase Occum’s Razor, "simpler is generally better."Of course, all the innovations in the world mean nothing if they’re haphazardly put together. Although Freedoms of various vintages suffer the ravages of other boats (leaking deck fittings, blisters, and apparently too often leaking portlights), in my opinion, they’re one of the best built boats you can actually afford to buy.just my 2cts.Lance F40CK “Bright Star”— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Pathmark” <pathmark2000@h…> wrote:> Andre,> > Thanks for the info. One more question about F25 vs regular sloop. Are there any strong reasons why the freedom is superior to a sloop rigged boat in regards to ease of sailing? Although I am leaning towards a freedom this design (cat rigged with carbon mast) is not exactly popular.> > I am just looking for a little more confidence in my desire for a freedom design boat.> > thanks,> mike.
Posted by Larry (martel@…>)
Andre
I Agree with every thing you said. Especially good in the main cabin
if you have a dodger. She is a bit difficult to motor in steep seas
with an outboard because of cavitation. Better to reef and keep
sailing.
What is the area of your main and Jib and do you have a wing mast@
LARRY — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette
<andrelaviolette@y…> wrote:
Hi, The F 25 has 5’2" headroom in the salon. You can stand in
the companionway and under the v-beth hatch. One just gets used to
doing eveything sitting down. Better than some bigger boats I have
been on, your head does nor come in contact with the side decks when
sitting on the settees. Good sitting head room in the v-berth…
Works rather well. Sue and I cruise on ours even though we downsized
from a big cruising OI 41 to 25 for our Florida, Bahamas boat. "
Scaramanga " is inordinately well equiped. Huge v berth ( 6 in
thick) much more room than in our (sitting in a snowbank) CS 27.
Propane stove, Engel freezer , airmarine wind machine, good
electronics and a diesel. The Doyle stack pack main is a gem . Undo
the zipper and up the sail and you are off. Reefing is a breeze all
done under the dodger/bimini.
6.5 hp Yanmar will drive her to 6.7 kts cruise at 6. Strong
( 2 blade prop. ) head winds up a narrow canal will slow her to near
half that. Sail ! Sue still cant get over tacking, just helm
down, thats it !Have fun, Andre.
hjulbyhavn <hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
“Scaramanga” F 25 Staysails: Genoa, with wire luff : LP 12 feet
Hoist 26 feet
Foot 12.5 ft
S.A.= 156 square feet.
Storm jib:
LP 4.5 feet
Hoist 11.5 feet
Sail Area = 26 square feet
Main: foot 12.75 ft
hoist 29.75 ft
Approx. S.A. 303 square feet ( huge roach fully battened main in Doyle Stack Pack ) 80% P X E
Andre.lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote:
Mike,think outside the box. a “regular sloop” has an awful lot of mechanics involved to keep the stick upright - any single failure, and pretty much the whole rig comes down, or at the very least is subjected to undue stress. And don’t forget about ‘tuning’ the rig, the stress that chainplates and shrouds put on the hull form, etc, etc. The simplicity of a freestanding stick in a hole is borne out pretty substantially. Freedom’s been doing it that way since about 1977, Nonsuches are very popular with a freestanding rig, there are some herreschoff designs that free-stand, the Finn olympic class racing boat was actually part of the inspiration for the Freedom rigs, and - dare I mention it - even Hunter has a freestanding rig now, although I think the stick is aluminum. Is Catalina far behind?I’d say the only disadvantages
I’ve noticed on my Freedom to NOT having shrouds is: a) nothing to hold on to going forward, and b) a little more challenging to tie off slapping halyards at anchor. I’ll take those disadvantages over a self-tending rig where really only one thing can go wrong.As most of the owners here will attest, Freedoms do a remarkable job of space and rig management, getting the maximum from the compromises that every boat designer/builder faces. Are there boats that point better? go faster? have more room? Sure, but at what price? Do you like the idea of dropping the lines from the dock and taking off for an afternoon sail by yourself? I can do that in my Freedom 40 with confidence because the rig is so easy to handle. When I used to sail a Hunter, sure it was cool to grind a jib on every tack, but to paraphrase Occum’s Razor, "simpler is generally better."Of course, all the innovations in the world mean nothing if they’re
haphazardly put together. Although Freedoms of various vintages suffer the ravages of other boats (leaking deck fittings, blisters, and apparently too often leaking portlights), in my opinion, they’re one of the best built boats you can actually afford to buy.just my 2cts.Lance F40CK “Bright Star”— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Pathmark” <pathmark2000@h…> wrote:> Andre,> > Thanks for the info. One more question about F25 vs regular sloop. Are there any strong reasons why the freedom is superior to a sloop rigged boat in regards to ease of sailing? Although I am leaning towards a freedom this design (cat rigged with carbon mast) is not exactly popular.> > I am just looking for a little more confidence in my desire for a freedom design boat.> > thanks,> mike.Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
“Scaramanga” F 25 Staysails: Genoa, with wire luff : LP 12 feet
Hoist 26 feet
Foot 12.5 ft
S.A.= 156 square feet.
Storm jib:
LP 4.5 feet
Hoist 11.5 feet
Sail Area = 26 square feet
Main: foot 12.75 ft
hoist 29.75 ft
Approx. S.A. 303 square feet ( huge roach fully battened main in Doyle Stack Pack ) 80% P X E
Andre.lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote:
Mike,think outside the box. a “regular sloop” has an awful lot of mechanics involved to keep the stick upright - any single failure, and pretty much the whole rig comes down, or at the very least is subjected to undue stress. And don’t forget about ‘tuning’ the rig, the stress that chainplates and shrouds put on the hull form, etc, etc. The simplicity of a freestanding stick in a hole is borne out pretty substantially. Freedom’s been doing it that way since about 1977, Nonsuches are very popular with a freestanding rig, there are some herreschoff designs that free-stand, the Finn olympic class racing boat was actually part of the inspiration for the Freedom rigs, and - dare I mention it - even Hunter has a freestanding rig now, although I think the stick is aluminum. Is Catalina far behind?I’d say the only disadvantages
I’ve noticed on my Freedom to NOT having shrouds is: a) nothing to hold on to going forward, and b) a little more challenging to tie off slapping halyards at anchor. I’ll take those disadvantages over a self-tending rig where really only one thing can go wrong.As most of the owners here will attest, Freedoms do a remarkable job of space and rig management, getting the maximum from the compromises that every boat designer/builder faces. Are there boats that point better? go faster? have more room? Sure, but at what price? Do you like the idea of dropping the lines from the dock and taking off for an afternoon sail by yourself? I can do that in my Freedom 40 with confidence because the rig is so easy to handle. When I used to sail a Hunter, sure it was cool to grind a jib on every tack, but to paraphrase Occum’s Razor, "simpler is generally better."Of course, all the innovations in the world mean nothing if they’re
haphazardly put together. Although Freedoms of various vintages suffer the ravages of other boats (leaking deck fittings, blisters, and apparently too often leaking portlights), in my opinion, they’re one of the best built boats you can actually afford to buy.just my 2cts.Lance F40CK “Bright Star”— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Pathmark” <pathmark2000@h…> wrote:> Andre,> > Thanks for the info. One more question about F25 vs regular sloop. Are there any strong reasons why the freedom is superior to a sloop rigged boat in regards to ease of sailing? Although I am leaning towards a freedom this design (cat rigged with carbon mast) is not exactly popular.> > I am just looking for a little more confidence in my desire for a freedom design boat.> > thanks,> mike.Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
Posted by f25cheshirecat (jpospeshil01@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “hjulbyhavn”
<hjulbyhavn@y…> wrote:
How much head(chest)- room is there in the F25??
How does the F 25 sail compared to the F21 and F29 (Hoyt)
I have been sailing my 1985 Freedom 25, Cheshire Cat, in the Great
Lakes since 1987. I usually spend two or three weeks cruising in the
summer. The Freedom is the “biggest” feeling small boat that I have
sailed on. The decks are solid and don’t oilcan when walking around.
The boat can take a lot more than I care to as far as wind and waves.
We were caught off shore on Lake Huron and beat into eight to ten
feet waves and estimated 30 knot winds when a weather system changed
direction. With the second reef in the main we beat for 12 hours to
get into the lee of the land. The boat sails well in light air. I
single hand a lot and also enjoy taking inexperienced sailors out to
see what sailing is about.