Posted by fdcb (fdcb@…>)
I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s. What is
the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long keels seem
to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails better?
Is it the same as for conventional rigs.
On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted rudders
are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a skeg?
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
All the 33/et catketches have the same keelson I believe. The rudder is
protected by this as it is the same depth. Of course if you smash into a dock in
revers you could damage the rudded but it seems quite robust.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: “fdcb” <fdcb@…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/6/06 5:29 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Fin keel or long keel?
I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s. What is
the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long keels seem
to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails better?
Is it the same as for conventional rigs.
On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted rudders
are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a skeg?
Posted by John Jones (a1john@…>)
-Fifteen or so years ago I put a carbide blade on my circular saw and
took six inches off the bottom of my F33 (fixed keel) rudder to stop
hitting rudder first on groundings. Don’t get the idea that I hit
very often but was always expecting to damage the rudder. Works just
great and I haven’t missed the lost area at all. John Jones #55
– In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kusinitz <akusinitz@…>
wrote:
All the 33/et catketches have the same keelson I believe. The rudder
is protected by this as it is the same depth. Of course if you smash
into a dock in revers you could damage the rudded but it seems quite
robust.
Alan-----Original Message-----
From: “fdcb” <fdcb@…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/6/06 5:29 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Fin keel or long keel?I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s. What is
the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long keels seem
to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails better?
Is it the same as for conventional rigs.On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted rudders
are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a skeg?
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
I used to have a centreboard F33/35 built in the UK for 8 yrs. I
frequently beached the boat out using Franklin beaching legs. The
rudder never incurred any damage. To prevent damage when falling
backwards in a heavy sea, there are two heavy rudder stops on either
side of the hull.
The hull design of the F33/35 is something very special; it’s tuned to
be used with the catketch rig. Somewhere on this board there are
designer’s comments about the hull by designer Jay Paris. The long
keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons when
going about in a seaway. Even my CB-er was sometimes caught. With the
CB, you have a huge NACA wing onder your boat to prevent slipping
leewards. Of course, the downside of this is the big CB -trunk
bisecting the cabin. I never found that a problem and was pleased to
be able to navigate all kinds of shallow inlets and take the risk of
grounding.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “fdcb” <fdcb@…> wrote:
I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s. What
is
the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long keels seem
to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails better?
Is it the same as for conventional rigs.On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted rudders
are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a skeg?
Posted by Fred (fdcb@…>)
MichelThank you for that particularly the information about the rudder.I have never been a great fan of drop keels, but take your point about shalow creek exploring.My question was more that most F35 seem to have either the drop keel or the long keel. I am considering buying one with a fin keel and I was wondering how many were bvuilt and why and whether anyone had any experience of them.“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote: I used to have a centreboard F33/35 built in the UK for 8 yrs. I frequently beached the boat out using Franklin
beaching legs. The rudder never incurred any damage. To prevent damage when falling backwards in a heavy sea, there are two heavy rudder stops on either side of the hull. The hull design of the F33/35 is something very special; it’s tuned to be used with the catketch rig. Somewhere on this board there are designer’s comments about the hull by designer Jay Paris. The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons when going about in a seaway. Even my CB-er was sometimes caught. With the CB, you have a huge NACA wing onder your boat to prevent slipping leewards. Of course, the downside of this is the big CB -trunk bisecting the cabin. I never found that a problem and was pleased to be able to navigate all kinds of shallow inlets and take the risk of grounding. michel — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “fdcb” <fdcb@…> wrote: > > I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s. What is > the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long keels seem > to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails better? > Is it the same as for conventional rigs. > > On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted rudders > are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a skeg? > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Posted by yottydotty (mikedavidwilliams@…>)
Fred,
Do you have any links to pictures or profiles of the fin and the long
for comparison. Are you tempted to find one with the keel you want, or
does the boat you want just happen to have the long keel. The keel I
have seen is more of a stub than a real fin, but not sure I would call
it long either so am confused which is which.
Mike
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
I believe that the hull and keel start out
the same for all 3 centerboard, shoal keel, and deep keel. The only difference
is that for the fixed keel models they bolted either a ~4 ft or ~5ft lead stub
fin keel to the keelson running down the center of the hull.
Alan
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If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
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From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of yottydotty
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:07
PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
Fin keel or long keel?
Fred,
Do you have any links to pictures or profiles of the fin and the long
for comparison. Are you tempted to find one with the keel you want, or
does the boat you want just happen to have the long keel. The keel I
have seen is more of a stub than a real fin, but not sure I would call
it long either so am confused which is which.
Mike
\
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Fred,
I have no experience with the fin keel but I saw a photo recently. I
would say, performance-wise, the finkeel F33 should be pointing
higher than the long keel, but less high than the centerboarder.
Your worries about the board:
The board construction is amazing, I ran aground with the board down
so often when tacking in shallow creeks but there was never any
damage. In narrow creeks only went about after we noticed the tip of
the board was on the ground, no sooner than that. It’s a very sturdy
construction with a 4" thick stainless pin and laminated-in metal
supports and frames at the front and aftside of the CB-trunk.
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Fred <fdcb@…> wrote:
Michel
Thank you for that particularly the information about the rudder.
I have never been a great fan of drop keels, but take your point
about shalow creek exploring.My question was more that most F35 seem to have either the drop
keel or the long keel. I am considering buying one with a fin keel
and I was wondering how many were bvuilt and why and whether anyone
had any experience of them.“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…>
wrote: I used to have a centreboard
F33/35 built in the UK for 8 yrs. I
frequently beached the boat out using Franklin beaching legs. The
rudder never incurred any damage. To prevent damage when falling
backwards in a heavy sea, there are two heavy rudder stops on
either
side of the hull.The hull design of the F33/35 is something very special; it’s
tuned to
be used with the catketch rig. Somewhere on this board there are
designer’s comments about the hull by designer Jay Paris. The
long
keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons
when
going about in a seaway. Even my CB-er was sometimes caught. With
the
CB, you have a huge NACA wing onder your boat to prevent slipping
leewards. Of course, the downside of this is the big CB -trunk
bisecting the cabin. I never found that a problem and was pleased
to
be able to navigate all kinds of shallow inlets and take the risk
of
grounding.michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “fdcb” <fdcb@> wrote:
I have seen that there are a variety of keelson freedom 35’s.
What
is
the perceived wisdom on fin keels verses long keels. Long
keels seem
to be combined with a drop keel or centre plate. Which sails
better?
Is it the same as for conventional rigs.On another matter has anyone found that the transom mounted
rudders
are vulnerable to damage. On a fin keel version is there a
skeg?Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Posted by Fred (fdcb@…>)
I haven’t seen any pics but this F35 draws 1.8M so I would guess its a fairly substantial fin.yottydotty <mikedavidwilliams@…> wrote: Fred, Do you have any links to pictures or profiles of the fin and the long for comparison. Are you tempted to find one with the keel you want, or does the boat you want just happen to have the long keel. The keel I have seen is more of a stub than a real fin, but not sure I would call it long either so am confused which is which. Mike Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Posted by Thomas Carlton (Finesse@…>)
I have noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the best way to get
the F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no spare crew) The experience of
others would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace
— michel.capel@… wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons
when going about in a seaway.
Posted by Jerome Weinraub (zayde@…>)

I always carry a spare amount of chagrin. . I find it is worse in light air,but if I need to I crank up the diesel. . I have backwinded the main.but as you are,I am singlehanded and short of hands. Sometimes I have wore about as the easiest way. I,also,will be anxious to hear others experience
Jerry Weinraub F33#68 fixed keel
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Carlton
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Fin keel or long keel?
I have noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the best way to get the F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no spare crew) The experience of others would be much appreciated.Thanks.ThomasF-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace— michel.capel@yahoo.com wrote:The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons when going about in a seaway.
Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)
Just releasing the sheets and pushing one
of the booms out seems to work for me.
Alan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments
is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s)
named above and may be subject to attorney client privilege if so marked. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that you have received this document in error and that any review,
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
by e-mail, and delete the original message.
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerome Weinraub
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 2:36
PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
Re: Fin keel or long keel?

Â
I always carry a spare amount of chagrin. . I find it is
worse in light air,but if I need to I crank up the diesel. . I have backwinded
the main.but as you are,I am singlehanded and short of hands. Sometimes I
have wore about as the easiest way. I,also,will be anxious to hear others
experience
Jerry Weinraub F33#68 fixed keel
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas
Carlton
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01,
2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re:
[freedomyachts2003] Re: Fin keel or long keel?
\
I have
noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the best way to get the F-33
back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no spare crew) The experience of others
would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace
— michel.capel@yahoo.com
wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be caught in irons when
going about in a seaway.
\
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
I’d suggest, that just like the unirig Hobie 14,
which also has a long keel, cranking the rudder
full right (stbd), with the sheets loose, will
move the bow to port once the boat gets some
rearward way on. Once the hull is at the proper
angle to the wind, crank the mainsheet in, get
the boat going forward, and then crank in the mizzen sheet
Herm
At 02:35 PM 7/1/2006, you wrote:

I always carry a spare amount of chagrin. . I
find it is worse in light air,but if I need to I
crank up the diesel. . I have backwinded the
main.but as you are,I am singlehanded and short
of hands. Sometimes I have wore about as the
easiest way. I,also,will be anxious to hear others experience
Jerry Weinraub F33#68 fixed keel
----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:Finesse@...Thomas Carlton
To:
<mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Fin keel or long keel?I have noticed this, but I am still
experimenting to find the best way to get the
F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no
spare crew) The experience of others would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace— mailto:michel.capel@...michel.capel@… wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are
known to be caught in irons when going about in a seaway.
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Thomas,
I have to concur with the majority of the opinions for getting a cat
ketch out of irons. There are a couple of approaches, depending on how
much room you have to maneuver.
Option 1: Crank the rudder hard over in either direction and wait.
Make sure to wait long enough for the bow to really be off the wind.
As it comes off the wind, sheet the main in tight first to keep the
motion going off the wind, then bring the mizzen in to balance.
Option 2: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind the main
in the SAME direction. this is probably your fastest option.
Option 3: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind the
mizzen boom in the OPPOSITE direction. If you backwind in the same
direction as the rudder, the force on the mizzen may ‘balance out’ the
turning force of the rudder. This may be your best option short-handed.
The main thing is to choose a direction for your bow to exit irons and
stick with it. Otherwise, you’ll spend a lot of time scalloping
prettily in reverse.
Lance
Bright Star
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Carlton”
<Finesse@…> wrote:
I have noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the best
way to get the F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no spare crew)
The experience of others would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace— michel.capel@… wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be
caught in irons when going about in a seaway.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Lance’s instructions should go right into the official Freedom
catketch manual.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:
Thomas,
I have to concur with the majority of the opinions for getting a
cat
ketch out of irons. There are a couple of approaches, depending on
how
much room you have to maneuver.Option 1: Crank the rudder hard over in either direction and wait.
Make sure to wait long enough for the bow to really be off the
wind.
As it comes off the wind, sheet the main in tight first to keep
the
motion going off the wind, then bring the mizzen in to balance.Option 2: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind the
main
in the SAME direction. this is probably your fastest option.Option 3: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind the
mizzen boom in the OPPOSITE direction. If you backwind in the same
direction as the rudder, the force on the mizzen may ‘balance out’
the
turning force of the rudder. This may be your best option short-
handed.The main thing is to choose a direction for your bow to exit irons
and
stick with it. Otherwise, you’ll spend a lot of time scalloping
prettily in reverse.Lance
Bright Star— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Carlton”
<Finesse@> wrote:I have noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the
best
way to get the F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no spare
crew)
The experience of others would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace— michel.capel@ wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be
caught in irons when going about in a seaway.
Posted by Thomas Carlton (Finesse@…>)
Thanks to all who replied. This one gets printed to go with my Owners Manual!
Thomas
L’Audace. F-33 #66
— lance_ryley@… wrote:
From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@…>
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Fin keel or long keel?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:19:41 -0000
Thomas,
I have to concur with the majority of the opinions for getting
a cat
ketch out of irons. There are a couple of approaches, depending
on how
much room you have to maneuver.
Option 1: Crank the rudder hard over in either direction and
wait.
Make sure to wait long enough for the bow to really be off the
wind.
As it comes off the wind, sheet the main in tight first to keep
the
motion going off the wind, then bring the mizzen in to balance.
Option 2: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind
the main
in the SAME direction. this is probably your fastest option.
Option 3: crank the wheel over in one direction and backwind
the
mizzen boom in the OPPOSITE direction. If you backwind in the
same
direction as the rudder, the force on the mizzen may ‘balance
out’ the
turning force of the rudder. This may be your best option
short-handed.
The main thing is to choose a direction for your bow to exit
irons and
stick with it. Otherwise, you’ll spend a lot of time scalloping
prettily in reverse.
Lance
Bright Star
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Thomas Carlton”
<Finesse@…> wrote:
I have noticed this, but I am still experimenting to find the
best
way to get the F-33 back OUT of irons. (No jib to back, no
spare crew)
The experience of others would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thomas
F-33 (fixed keel) L’Audace— michel.capel@… wrote:
The long keel versions without centreboard are known to be
caught in irons when going about in a seaway.